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  1. #1
    Jdawg50's Avatar
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    Canada won't help fund Missile defense shield

    I'm not trying to bring any old wounds up, but I thought this was relevant in an earlier discussion. The US will be defending Canada on its Dime once again.
    Again, I do not hate canada, Your fishing, skiing, and Niagra falls are great! Hunting, boating, hiking all good, I just wish Canada would be willing to put its equal share of funding into the North america defense system. With North Korea, Iran, Russia, and all these other potential rouge states, there is very real possibility of a missle attack on us. ( Thanks to Bill Clinton having sold our missle technology to the Chinese... Thanks Bill)

    Just something to think about.

    AGAIN Please be nice here, no need to be rude, POINT/ COUNTERPOINT. Nothing nasty... please guys.. Read the rules before you say something silly.

    http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/sto...7-32da81fb4a02

    Canada won't fund missile shield: PM


    Windsor Star


    December 15, 2004

    CREDIT: Canadian Press
    Prime Minister Paul Martin


    Prime Minister Paul Martin said Tuesday he does not believe the U.S. ballistic missile shield will succeed in shooting down incoming rockets, as he threw up new roadblocks to counter President George W. Bush's strong appeal for Canada to join his continental defence plan.

    Canada will not put any money into building the missile shield and it will not allow Washington to station rockets on Canadian soil as the price of participation in the multibillion-dollar program, Martin told Global National in a year-end interview.

    In another issue that could cause friction with Bush, Martin said Canada was prepared to accept U.S. citizens who do not want to serve in the war in Iraq.

    "In terms of immigration, we are a country of immigrants and we will take immigrants from around the world. I'm not going to discriminate," said Martin, when reminded that former prime minister Pierre Trudeau opened Canada's doors to draft dodgers and deserters during the Vietnam War.

    'AN ILLEGAL WAR'

    When asked whether the prime minister was referring to ongoing attempts by Jeremy Hinzman, a 26-year-old U.S. deserter, to gain asylum in Canada after refusing to serve in what he calls "an illegal war," Martin spokesman Scott Reid said the prime minister "was not commenting on any individual case and certainly was not sending a signal to the immigration board."

    Martin was emphatic Canada's participation in the missile defence program would depend on a key decision-making role in the U.S. command and control structure that operates the shield.

    "The decision as to whether or not we participate in the ballistic missile defence system is going to depend on whether, in fact, Canada can have a voice in the structure," Martin said in the interview, to be broadcast Christmas Day.

    "I'm not going to put money into it. I'm going to put money into our priorities ... Having missiles on our territory is not one of those priorities."

    The conditions laid out by Martin are the clearest indication to date the Liberal government is increasingly disinterested in the missile defence program despite Bush's public appeal during his visit to Canada on Dec. 1.

    Canada would immediately pull out of the defence shield if it were to join and the U.S. subsequently put missile weapon systems in space.

    "I don't believe space belongs to any country," Martin said. "We will not engage in the weaponization of space."

    Martin acknowledged for the first time that next year's budget will pump money into Canada's hard-pressed military, including funds to allow the Armed Forces to recruit 5,000 more troops over the next five years.

    Martin admitted he struggled over his personal belief in the traditional marriage but finally decided same-sex weddings were a right entitled to all citizens regardless of their sexual orientation.

    © The Windsor Star 2004
    Last edited by Jdawg50; 12-16-2004 at 10:36 AM.

  2. #2
    atlgadoll is offline Junior Member
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    No big deal. just let any incoming missiles go that dont have a vector that would place them near american soil.

  3. #3
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    Canada's too smart to invest in some multibillion dollar boondoggle that's probably never going to work no matter how many billions they pour into it and in the end will benefit only the US businesses that suck up the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Prime Minister Paul Martin said Tuesday he does not believe the U.S. ballistic missile shield will succeed in shooting down incoming rockets, as he threw up new roadblocks to counter President George W. Bush's strong appeal for Canada to join his continental defence plan.

    Canada will not put any money into building the missile shield and it will not allow Washington to station rockets on Canadian soil as the price of participation in the multibillion-dollar program, Martin told Global National in a year-end interview.
    so far Paul Martin is correct the test failed miserably. here is an article from the 15th of december

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4097267.stm

  5. #5
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    Jdawg,

    Do you even work out? Or do you just copy and paste about Canada all day long?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ
    Jdawg,

    Do you even work out? Or do you just copy and paste about Canada all day long?
    I know he does i saw a picture of his gear for a cycle on another board, and it was good stuff, and he had alot of ****. good luck on your cycle jdawg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ
    Jdawg,

    Do you even work out? Or do you just copy and paste about Canada all day long?
    I second this emotion.

  8. #8
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    How would that missile defense shield work? Shoting down icbms with some kind of rocket?

    Is it even remotely possible to succed with that. Would be like trying to hit one speeding bullet with another but even more dificult with the speeds of those babys?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ
    Jdawg,

    Do you even work out? Or do you just copy and paste about Canada all day long?
    Lord,
    yes,
    Check my history of posts if your so concerned.

    Oh btw that is maybe my 2nd thread about Canada.
    Last edited by Jdawg50; 12-16-2004 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    I know he does i saw a picture of his gear for a cycle on another board, and it was good stuff, and he had alot of ****. good luck on your cycle jdawg.
    Thanks Rock


    I'm hitting my GH right now with some IGF. Cant hit any test etc, because wife and I are trying to have another kid.

    Did I mention that I don't hate Canada? Oh yea I did, but I was making a point that follows up a claim I made on an earlier point.


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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    How would that missile defense shield work? Shoting down icbms with some kind of rocket?

    Is it even remotely possible to succed with that. Would be like trying to hit one speeding bullet with another but even more dificult with the speeds of those babys?
    At one point they thought they could not put a man on the moon? remember that?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    At one point they thought they could not put a man on the moon? remember that?
    Would you buy into something that the Russians already say they can circumvent?

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Would you buy into something that the Russians already say they can circumvent?
    I'm really much more worried about North Korea, Iran at this point.

    Decent rebuttle though.

    My point is this. I was told several times by several people that the US does nothing to defend Canada. This proves my point that we are spending millions of dollars to defend North America, and the Canadians are not willing to throw in for that cause. ( Mostly because. IMO they know we will spend the money). Which if someone would just conceed that I would be fine with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Would you buy into something that the Russians already say they can circumvent?
    The russians talk a big game btw, they did the entire cold war, and once the wall fell we saw how far back they were in terms of technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    How would that missile defense shield work? Shoting down icbms with some kind of rocket?

    Is it even remotely possible to succed with that. Would be like trying to hit one speeding bullet with another but even more dificult with the speeds of those babys?
    They said the patriot missle system would not work.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    so far Paul Martin is correct the test failed miserably. here is an article from the 15th of december

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4097267.stm

    Good point, but does that mean we should just quit?
    and good article bro

    We tried to do a lot of things and failed, but we kept after them and succeeded. I think we will, and we must.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    I'm really much more worried about North Korea, Iran at this point.

    Decent rebuttle though.

    My point is this. I was told several times by several people that the US does nothing to defend Canada. This proves my point that we are spending millions of dollars to defend North America, and the Canadians are not willing to throw in for that cause. ( Mostly because. IMO they know we will spend the money). Which if someone would just conceed that I would be fine with.
    Yes, the US does spend more on protecting themselves and North America than Canada or Mexico...BY FAR. However, Canada is much less of a target and sees no reason to involve itself in another race to see who can build the best missle system. Canada does support the US in many of its self-defense initiatives and is willing to support the US in improving their defense capabilities (as my NORAD example illustrated). However, I don't think that Canada should be bound to financially support something that we/they believe will spark another arms race and further de-stabalize an already unstable situation.

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    Indeed, it's a pipe dream... besides with the cold war over, I think we got more important things to spend our money on.

    I know it may be real hard to understand by rich Americans, but Canada is NOT a rich country. We have to choose wisely where to spend our money and the people of Canada would rather have medecine and education (a visible HERE and NOW necessity) than some unproven missle defence system against a make believe threat that would do nothing but line the pockets of defence contractors in another country.

    See, paranoiia may be patriotic in the US, but over here it's considered silly and downright tasteless. Any elected official hopping on the paranois bandwagon would sign a death warrant to his political carreer (just as Tony Blair has done in the UK).

    Besides, my personal opinion is that if and when the US is "hit hard" by enemy fire (whoever the enemy may be) it won't be with some fancy ICBM (which this defence shield is supposed to stop), it's most likely to be something like a real nuke or a dirty bomb set off somewhere critical like the NYC or Los Angeles harbour.

    Red

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Yes, the US does spend more on protecting themselves and North America than Canada or Mexico...BY FAR. However, Canada is much less of a target and sees no reason to involve itself in another race to see who can build the best missle system. Canada does support the US in many of its self-defense initiatives and is willing to support the US in improving their defense capabilities (as my NORAD example illustrated). However, I don't think that Canada should be bound to financially support something that we/they believe will spark another arms race and further de-stabalize an already unstable situation.
    Unless a missle comes over intended for NY, and ends up in your backyard.
    Us spending more money is obvious, my point is that canada needs to share the burden. New Arms race? Who is the one starting that... well Russia is the one talking about a lot of new nukes.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Indeed, it's a pipe dream... besides with the cold war over, I think we got more important things to spend our money on.

    I know it may be real hard to understand by rich Americans, but Canada is NOT a rich country. We have to choose wisely where to spend our money and the people of Canada would rather have medecine and education (a visible HERE and NOW necessity) than some unproven missle defence system against a make believe threat that would do nothing but line the pockets of defence contractors in another country.

    See, paranoiia may be patriotic in the US, but over here it's considered silly and downright tasteless. Any elected official hopping on the paranois bandwagon would sign a death warrant to his political carreer (just as Tony Blair has done in the UK).

    Besides, my personal opinion is that if and when the US is "hit hard" by enemy fire (whoever the enemy may be) it won't be with some fancy ICBM (which this defence shield is supposed to stop), it's most likely to be something like a real nuke or a dirty bomb set off somewhere critical like the NYC or Los Angeles harbour.

    I agree with u here, but I do think there is a distinct possibility of an ICBM in the relative near future... Because like I said earlier Mr. Clinton give away our technology... I also think that there is a distinct difference between being paraniod and being smart. there are a looooot of people that hate the US, and I think its in our intrest (North America) to watch our back.

    Red
    I think its something that needs to be done, and if its unlikely that it can be done... well, you wont know unless you try.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Yes, the US does spend more on protecting themselves and North America than Canada or Mexico...BY FAR. However, Canada is much less of a target and sees no reason to involve itself in another race to see who can build the best missle system. Canada does support the US in many of its self-defense initiatives and is willing to support the US in improving their defense capabilities (as my NORAD example illustrated). However, I don't think that Canada should be bound to financially support something that we/they believe will spark another arms race and further de-stabalize an already unstable situation.
    Nothing to say about my AR history of posting huh?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Unless a missle comes over intended for NY, and ends up in your backyard.
    Us spending more money is obvious, my point is that canada needs to share the burden. New Arms race? Who is the one starting that... well Russia is the one talking about a lot of new nukes.
    But the US is talking about extending the arms race to space once again (Regan began it). What happens when Russia has missles firing from space, the US acts by having these shot down by land based missles, etc.? The US and Russia are being attacked by the inside via terrorism but they are spending the majority of their money on arming themselves to protect against their supposed allies.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    But the US is talking about extending the arms race to space once again (Regan began it). What happens when Russia has missles firing from space, the US acts by having these shot down by land based missles, etc.? - Why not?The US and Russia are being attacked by the inside via terrorism but they are spending the majority of their money on arming themselves to protect against their supposed allies.


    The US and Russia are being attacked by the inside via terrorism but they are spending the majority of their money on arming themselves to protect against their supposed allies.[/QUOTE]

    Could you clearify this for me bro... I'm just not following you here. Are you agreeing with me here or disagreeing with me?

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    Aboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Nothing to say about my AR history of posting huh?
    Over all, yes, a very solid member. Recently, I just don't know why all this concentration on Canada/US relations when we should be building bridges since we are on the same side of ALMOST all the issues.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    The US and Russia are being attacked by the inside via terrorism but they are spending the majority of their money on arming themselves to protect against their supposed allies.
    Could you clearify this for me bro... I'm just not following you here. Are you agreeing with me here or disagreeing with me?[/QUOTE]

    The US and Russia are continuing to build defenses against one another but are facing a greater threat from terrorism and other rogue nations (North Korea, Iran, etc.) that are to be dealt with differently than during the Cold War. I beleive we are on the same page, just using different language.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Over all, yes, a very solid member. Recently, I just don't know why all this concentration on Canada/US relations when we should be building bridges since we are on the same side of ALMOST all the issues.
    Thank you,
    I am not here trying to break apart the US- CANADA relationship, I am simply debating self interests. I think it is important to have a dialoge. When people disagree it is important to talk about the issue. I think that Canada could be a better allie that it has been in the recent past. I would like to see more support from Canada. This is a learning process to me too. I think its important to hear what you guys have to say. I form my opinion based on a lot of things, and my AR bros are an important source if info. I am often persuaded by what people say here, and that is the point of this particular Forum.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Could you clearify this for me bro... I'm just not following you here. Are you agreeing with me here or disagreeing with me?
    The US and Russia are continuing to build defenses against one another but are facing a greater threat from terrorism and other rogue nations (North Korea, Iran, etc.) that are to be dealt with differently than during the Cold War. I beleive we are on the same page, just using different language.[/QUOTE]

    OK sounds cool

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Thank you,
    I am not here trying to break apart the US- CANADA relationship, I am simply debating self interests. I think it is important to have a dialoge. When people disagree it is important to talk about the issue. I think that Canada could be a better allie that it has been in the recent past. I would like to see more support from Canada. This is a learning process to me too. I think its important to hear what you guys have to say. I form my opinion based on a lot of things, and my AR bros are an important source if info. I am often persuaded by what people say here, and that is the point of this particular Forum.
    Without a doubt, discussion is the key.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aboot
    Without a doubt, discussion is the key.
    This is what is all about bro! Nice civilazed- (spell check save me now!) debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    We tried to do a lot of things and failed, but we kept after them and succeeded. I think we will, and we must.
    I will agree if it does work it will benefit any country that has it but that is if it works. what type of dog is that in you avatar? American stasfordterrier? (sp? ) American bulldog?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    I will agree if it does work it will benefit any country that has it but that is if it works. what type of dog is that in you avatar? American stasfordterrier? (sp? ) American bulldog?

    She's a mutt bro, We got her from a rescue. I have a pure breed boxer, and we got her from a boxer rescue. She is the sweetest dog on earth. I think she may be boxer, american bulldog, and maybe a little lab.... not really sure though.

  33. #33
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    is the defense shield made to be able to hold its own against a full scale nuclear strike from russia or any other major nuclear super power.

    Or is it made just to be able to stop one or 2 missiles from a pissant country like iran or north korea??

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    is the defense shield made to be able to hold its own against a full scale nuclear strike from russia or any other major nuclear super power.

    Or is it made just to be able to stop one or 2 missiles from a pissant country like iran or north korea??
    Pissant or not, a 10 killiton bomb falling on New York would kill a lot of people. At this point they have to make it work first. And the biggest thread we are facing is probably North Korea and Iran...

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    Jdawg, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? No flame but they have been getting "free" milk for years. Why start paying now?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Pissant or not, a 10 killiton bomb falling on New York would kill a lot of people. At this point they have to make it work first. And the biggest thread we are facing is probably North Korea and Iran...

    My point was that if n.korea or iran wants to nuke the states they probably wont shoot a missile at you. Probably a concealed bomb in some way.

    So the missile defence would probably only be effective against russia, china or another super power and it would have to be one hell of a system to be able to take down 100+ missiles coming at you

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Jdawg, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? No flame but they have been getting "free" milk for years. Why start paying now?
    Thank you, that is my point bro. Its better to not bite the hand that feeds you. I'm mostly asking for a thank you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    My point was that if n.korea or iran wants to nuke the states they probably wont shoot a missile at you. Probably a concealed bomb in some way.

    So the missile defence would probably only be effective against russia, china or another super power and it would have to be one hell of a system to be able to take down 100+ missiles coming at you
    Right now the biggest threat is N Korea/ Iran... Iran being the biggest. Keep in mind that there is not mutually assured distruction with Iran, They know we would completely destroy them with nukes. That is not the point. Remeber the type of Islamofacist we are dealing with here. These are the same people that blow themselves up with car bombs on a daily basis. If they get the technology who's to say they would not being willing to take a bullet (or a nuke for that matter) to blow up New York. This is a brave new world we live in, and the Iranians are a lot different than the Russians.

    That is why we need a missle defense shield. I agree there is a likelyhood of a nuke coming in a shipping container, but I think as the technology continues to expand. These countries will have more of an ability to shoot an ICBM in our back yard.

  39. #39
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    No we are not investing into a stupid crappy idea of some billionaires that wants some money and their cohorts generals

    PS: we do never invest in your weapons program, we are paying half of the F22 cost btw

  40. #40
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    and for the price of that ****ty idea, you could give healthcare and food to every americans in the US. Your priority are differents I guess.

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