01-04-2005, 01:30 PM #1
Al-Zaqwari.......why it doesn't really matter
There's just another to replace him......
Spy chief says 200,000 fighters in Iraq
Monday 03 January 2005 2:24 PM GMT
Shahwani: The Iraqi resistance is larger than the US army in Iraq
The head of the Iraqi intelligence service has estimated that there are more than 200,000 active fighters and sympathisers in the war-torn country.
Service director General Muhammad Abd Allah Shahwani told journalists on Monday that his assessment included 40,000 fulltime fighters and about 200,000 Iraqis involved part-time.
He added that part-timers were also likely to be providing everything from intelligence to logistics and shelter.
"I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people," he added.
The numbers far exceed any figure presented by the US military in Iraq, which has struggled to control the country since*ousting the former government in April 2003.
Past US military assessments on fighter numbers have been increased from 5000 to 20,000 full and part-time members in the past half year, most recently in October.
Shahwani said "the resistance" enjoys wide backing in the provinces of Baghdad, Babil, Salah al-Din, Diyala, Nineveh and Tamim.*
Shahwani questioned the value
of destroying Falluja
He said fighters have gained strength through Iraq's tight-knit tribal bonds and links to the old 400,000-strong Iraqi army, dissolved by the US occupation in May 2003 two months after the US-led invasion.
"People are fed up after two years without improvement. People are fed up with no security, no electricity, people feel they have to do something," he said.
"The army was hundreds of thousands. You would expect some veterans would join with their relatives, each one has sons and brothers."*
The intelligence chief added that some city neighbourhoods and small towns around central Iraq had become virtual no-go zones despite US military efforts in Samarra and Falluja.
He also named areas in Baghdad itself where various groups had become virtually untouchable.
And in stark contrast to many US assessments of success in Falluja, the spy chief said the November campaign against the town was far from a military triumph.
"What we have now is an empty city almost destroyed and most of the insurgents are free. They have gone either to Mosul or to Baghdad or other areas."
Shahwani stopped short of saying that anti-US fighters were now taking control of the situation in Iraq, but warned: "I would say they aren't losing."
US analyst comments
Defence experts have broadly accepted the new assessment as valid.
Bruce Hoffman, who served as an adviser to the US occupation in Iraq and now works for US-based thinktank Rand Corporation, said he believed the estimate, though it said it was impossible to know for sure.
And Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies, put Shahwani's estimates on an equal footing with the American's.
"The Iraqi figures do recognise the reality that the insurgency in Iraq has broad support in Sunni areas while the US figures down play this to the point of denial."*
01-04-2005, 02:54 PM #2
Bager, I see you are a junkie (resolution? lol). Every single one matters
01-04-2005, 02:55 PM #3
BTW as you can see you are now my nemesis lol!
01-04-2005, 03:44 PM #4
whoops......darn........I just couldn't resist when I saw the Al Z caught post.......
I'll mend my ways......
hey I like the patriot thing......just don't let it invade your intelligence!!!
01-04-2005, 03:47 PM #5
I know you will be back, it is part of your makeup. until then............
01-04-2005, 09:11 PM #6AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
- Join Date
- Aug 2001
- Wherever necessary
If there were 200K insurgents would their be only 10-15 dead every day? I dont think so
01-04-2005, 09:20 PM #7
Cheering for the terrorists once again... great!
01-04-2005, 10:16 PM #8Originally Posted by Jdawg50
01-04-2005, 10:20 PM #9
And I would think the head of Iraqi intelligence just might know more about the region than JDAWG .......or CYCLEON......or FOX News......but argue with him......since you guys are so familiar with the streets of Baghdad.
01-05-2005, 12:30 PM #10AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
Originally Posted by Badgerman
- Join Date
- Aug 2001
- Wherever necessary
You would think so but then look at their police force - it also might be that he has an agenda - you of all people should know that never trust a spook's intel without knowing the agenda he is wanting to prove
01-05-2005, 12:39 PM #11
Well take a look at Baghdad Bobs intelligence. I mean it was pinpoint accurate, foolproof!
01-05-2005, 07:37 PM #12
Im back for a awhile just thought id drop by see what we are arguing about tonight...Originally Posted by badgerman
01-06-2005, 04:10 AM #13
I personally think its very impoprtant to capture top names even more important than dealing with the unkown insurgents and terrorist. The reason is that these 'well known' or 'leaders' of such terror operations are supposed to be the most gaurded and most hidden of all the members, so capturing them will surely destoy moral of all other terrorists and also supporters in the public, its also scares less important members into leaving and starting a normal life so they dont get captured themselves.
I dont think 'just another new guy' will appear and take their place as effectively...it doesnt work that way..because the public that morally supports these terrorist leaders cannot keep renewing their 'hero's/idols' or whatever they consider them!
Remember for example in saudi arabia when they captured the american apache helicopter technitian and beheaded him, a 'new guy came out' and claimed he was the saudi representative and new branch of al-qaeda and that he would bring a new wave of terrorism, and even OBL rushed to make an audio tape to praise him and welcome him on the team......what happened? the guy got shot dead with his 'team' by the saudi police less than 24hours of his introduction!! does anyone know his name now? does anyone even remember him? NO! the reason is because nobody cared about a 'new guy' and even if some people showed interest..they got slapped in the face in less than 24hours!! That guys moment of fame was actually shorter than Ashlee Simpsons!!!! now thats pathetic!!
My point is when you capture a top guy, then nobody cares about whoever comes next! They can never live up the to the reputation of the guy that was captured. SO capturing head members of terror organizations is very important.
01-06-2005, 04:33 AM #14Originally Posted by Badgerman
at the moment only one thing is certain: the Iraq war hasn t make the US more scure, nor the middle east.
01-06-2005, 05:15 AM #15
I reckon the US should get out of Iraq and let the fukers fend for themselves, if they install a Fundamentalist regime then, piss that stupid Executive Order thing off and surgically remove the head of government until they put somebody in who is reasonable.
01-06-2005, 06:13 AM #16
lol yeah, we saw how great that works a couple of times...pinochet in Chile, noriega in Panama, lon nol in Cambodia etc. etc. etc. just some examples of how good that worked out for everybody...besides millions of ppl got killed, raped, tortured and a few civil wars and some little genocide...yep. worked out pretty well!
01-06-2005, 06:22 AM #17Originally Posted by ***xxx***
01-07-2005, 10:51 AM #18Originally Posted by 1victor
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