01-18-2005, 11:28 PM #1
Conservatives go against most of Jesus's values
If you say you are a Christian then this is your Lord and Saviours teachings. I can't wait to see how people justify going against Jesus.
Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and
persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]
The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]
Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured
to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]
Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]
Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]
Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]
Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]
Public and School Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]
Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]
Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
Last edited by Peanut Butter; 01-18-2005 at 11:33 PM.
01-19-2005, 12:07 AM #2
And since when do liberals give a **** about religion except when making sure it's not porteyed as what the USA was founded on.
01-19-2005, 04:52 AM #3Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
I get the feeling you are trying to portray the US a christian country as a whole when it is not.
IE: The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21] Im not saying there may be or are not christians who believe in the Death Penalty, but whether we as christians believe in it or not can not help what the majority vote for.
On the personal side, I follow all of these things youve said. As far as you titling the first point "....warmaking" Im not sure that is what the verse is talking about. I believe this verse is talking about revenge. If my car window gets broken by someone and I find out who it is, dont go and break his window. The way I see it, and I may be wrong...its hard to understand but I pray for those in Iraq and I pray for those who are on the bad side that they will come to the realization that what they are doing is wrong. But at the same time, in order to be a peacemaker, you sometimes have to use force. "do good to them that hate you" I believe that we are doing good to them by freeing them, even though force is needed to free them. Now im sure there are things done that a christian would not like, but as a christian, you can be for or against the war based on christian beliefs, but as a non christian, there certainly are verses that you can use against a christian to show that christians shouldnt be for any war. I cant let someone suffer and if that means I must do something against the bible, I pray that 1) God would provide a means or way for me to take to NOT go against what he teaches, but if that way doesnt show itself, ill try to end the suffering of someone how I can and pray i did the right thing. Goes back to when Jews were being persecuted. The bible says "thou shalt not lie". Well if I was hiding Jews in my house and a soldier asked "are you hiding jews"...I would not tell them I was. I would try and hopefully the words would come so i could talk around without lying, but if i had to, id lie to save the jews. Will God send me to hell because of this? No i dont believe so because I do believe in him and that only thru Jesus will I go to heaven, and I pray for forgiveness but that what I did was the only way apparent to me to help someone's pain.
01-19-2005, 07:28 AM #4
Okay you asked for it. This is THE dumbest post I have ever seen on this site, dumber than any Muslim extremist post. Go bury your head in the sand jackass.
01-19-2005, 08:08 AM #5Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 08:31 AM #6
I'm not gonna let you guys play with Christianity............I'LL SAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN SO YOU WILL UNDERSTAND , WE ARE NOT DOORMATS FOR THE WORLD.
It is hilarious how libs and MUSLIMS try to twist our faith to suit their purposes.
01-19-2005, 08:45 AM #7
Man Victor.....it's like you're taking Jesus and slapping him in the face......if you can't stand the gospel message....abandon the faith......there's no way you can weasel out of what He says.......
I'll tell you what.....there ARE people who live the gospel as stated above......My sister and her husband are both surgeons who sacrificed and served in Africa(Zaire) for over 10 years.....(imagine the bucks they would have pulled down in the states)...and guess what.....my sis prefers the lifestyle of Zaire over that of the US......go figure.
01-19-2005, 08:47 AM #8
They go to zaire as a missionary doctors?
01-19-2005, 08:50 AM #9Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 08:52 AM #10Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 09:08 AM #11
Funny I read the threads in this forum and people are so adamant about their "Christian values" but when Jesus talks they can't be found.
01-19-2005, 09:24 AM #12
what you mean PB?
01-19-2005, 09:41 AM #13Originally Posted by max2extreme
Conservatives believe in harsh sentencing guidelines, however Jesus said Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not lest ye be judged. So are conservatives really Christian? aka followers in the teachings of Christ? I say no. Being against gay marriage doesn't make a Christian.
01-19-2005, 09:44 AM #14
PB............If you had it your way Christians would have turned the other cheek into extinction. The most relevant teaching is spreading the word.
01-19-2005, 09:45 AM #15Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 09:48 AM #16
Badger............until YOU become a missionary don't criticize ME. I understand the message I also believe that Jeus Christ needs warriors for the faith to spread the word. Does that mean I don't follow it? No, it means that I take a stand for it. And for taking a stand you criticize me and question my faith and interpretation of the scriptures, look into the mirror my friend.
01-19-2005, 09:48 AM #17
all i will say is i love those quotes by JESUS (pbuh) ............and to follow them well , that is a hard thing to do these days !
01-19-2005, 09:49 AM #18
This is too literal and moronic, PB go over to Iraq and turn the other cheek if you disagree.
01-19-2005, 09:50 AM #19Originally Posted by ZOAIB
01-19-2005, 09:51 AM #20Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 09:52 AM #21
PB ......go hug a tree. Homeless? Gimme a break . Do you know about the homeless? Please tell me why they are homeless, I know why but I want you to say so I can make you look as simpled minded as you are. After you post your response I will post mine.
01-19-2005, 09:53 AM #22
PB self defense is antiChristian? Helping others is antiChristian?
01-19-2005, 09:54 AM #23Originally Posted by 1victor
If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
01-19-2005, 09:56 AM #24Originally Posted by 1victor
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39]
01-19-2005, 09:58 AM #25
Hey Nut (Peanut Butter) - You have shown in your post that you have no understanding of the bible or of US Christians. To state that an entire class of people (conservatives) are against Jesus shows only your own prejudice and ignorance. Your bible quotes do not support your arguement (at all). You would be better off leading by example and not judging others.
01-19-2005, 09:59 AM #26Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 10:03 AM #27Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
01-19-2005, 10:05 AM #28Originally Posted by ZOAIB
01-19-2005, 10:08 AM #29
Never is history has there been a country like the US that has done more good and ask for less in return. It amazes me how the Hate America 1st crowd wants to receive all the benefits that the US provides (democracy, freedom, rights to free speech all of which is enforced by the US military) but does not comprehend even on a fundemental level what must be done to make these rights available in the first place.
Originally Posted by ZOAIB
01-19-2005, 10:11 AM #30
No you are interpreting what you think the bible says and trying to bend what you think it means in a preverted way. There is a BIG difference.
Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
01-19-2005, 10:17 AM #31
Tell me about your giving? How much time and money have YOU donated to the homeless this year? The homeless are homeless because they choose to be. We either lock them up or let them live "free". Most are mildly mentally ill and when rounded up and given a home and food they leave on their own. They want the independance and are given a choice. Since you are the Christian authority ....tell me should we cage them in and rob them of their freedom?
01-19-2005, 10:42 AM #32Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
01-19-2005, 10:44 AM #33Originally Posted by 1victor
01-19-2005, 10:58 AM #34
I not surprised that you don't know how you are perverting to word of Jesus. This is because you have done little personal study on this subject and you are no doubt just regurgitating info you have come accross somewhere else. I will only site one example - so listen up (but all your quotes are equally bogus). The literal translation of what the bible say is Thou shall not MURDER. There is a big difference between kill and murder as it speaks directly to intent. Much like the intent of your post is to impugn the integrity of conservative christian beliefs. It is an insult to those of us that have faith and who are also conservative.
01-19-2005, 11:10 AM #35Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
2. Can you proove that this is the proper translation of thou shall not kill? Since I know nothing about this and am only regurgitating something I read somewhere (actually it's called the bible, you should check it out) can you enlighten me. Can you use a verse from the New Testament to enlighten me since you are apparently an authority. Such an authority that you can just spew out stuff without a verse to back it up whereas I do. If this were a court I would have hard evidence and yours would be opinions and circumstancial. Find verses and stop giving your opinion.
01-19-2005, 11:29 AM #36
Ok super genius - here is an explanation that is given is such a way even a simpleton such as your self can understand it:
This is not opinion - it is fact. Your fundamental lack of understanding of scripture makes you appear either uneducated or just plain stupid. The link can help you with your lack of education, as for stupidity we shall see.
Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
01-19-2005, 11:34 AM #37Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
01-19-2005, 11:37 AM #38Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
From your link.
Should Christians involve themselves in warfare? I would argue that Christians should not participate in such activities because the New Covenant is a covenant of life, not of death ( 2 Corinthians 3:4-11). Under the New Covenant Christians do not execute people for sinning. The most drastic steps anyone can take against an unrepentant Christian are withholding brotherly fellowship from him until he repents ( 1 Corinthians 5:9-13; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15); and delivering or handing him over to Satan for spiritual correction ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 1 Timothy 1:18-20). It is unclear from the scriptures exactly what it means to turn someone over to Satan.
Under the New Covenant a change occurred. Just as Christians are to no longer execute sinners, so they should not wage carnal war, but spiritual warfare ( John 18:36; 2 Corinthians 10:1-6; Ephesians 6:10-18; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 6:11-14; 2 Timothy 2:3-5; 4:6-8). Christians must be peacemakers ( Matthew 5:9, Romans 14:19), forgiving those who do them harm ( Ephesians 4:29-32; Colossians 3:12-14; Matthew 6:9-15; Mark 11:25-26), treating their enemies with love ( Luke 6:27-36) and not seeking revenge ( Romans 12:17-21; 1 Peter 3:8-12). Hatred which is the same as murder ( 1 John 3:15), is unforgiving, vengeful and hostile towards one's enemies.
01-19-2005, 11:38 AM #39
Got anything else to back up my argument? It was really appreciated.
01-19-2005, 11:47 AM #40
PB .....keep on posting you are showing your ass more and more. Do some research moron................do you even know about the homeless? Typical idiotic banter from someone who is a child. It also says love thy neighbor....you call it war I calle it protecting others from persuction/murder . Mince words all you want I am done with this crap, you are no longer worthy of my time.
What about the mass graves? What about the rape and torture of people? Jesus would ask us not to help? Unlikely
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