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  1. #1
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    Conservatives go against most of Jesus's values

    If you say you are a Christian then this is your Lord and Saviours teachings. I can't wait to see how people justify going against Jesus.




    Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
    not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
    enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and
    persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]

    The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

    Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
    you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured
    to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

    Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
    merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
    trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

    Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
    sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
    he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
    all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
    be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

    Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
    things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

    Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
    [Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
    [Matthew 19:21]

    Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
    because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

    Public and School Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
    the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
    [Matthew 6:6 & 7]

    Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
    hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

    Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
    Last edited by Peanut Butter; 01-19-2005 at 12:33 AM.

  2. #2
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    And since when do liberals give a **** about religion except when making sure it's not porteyed as what the USA was founded on.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
    If you say you are a Christian then this is your Lord and Saviours teachings. I can't wait to see how people justify going against Jesus.




    Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
    not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
    enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and
    persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]

    The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

    Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
    you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured
    to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

    Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
    merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
    trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

    Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
    sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
    he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
    all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
    be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

    Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
    things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

    Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
    [Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
    [Matthew 19:21]

    Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
    because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

    Public and School Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
    the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
    [Matthew 6:6 & 7]

    Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
    hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

    Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]

    I get the feeling you are trying to portray the US a christian country as a whole when it is not.

    IE: The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21] Im not saying there may be or are not christians who believe in the Death Penalty, but whether we as christians believe in it or not can not help what the majority vote for.

    On the personal side, I follow all of these things youve said. As far as you titling the first point "....warmaking" Im not sure that is what the verse is talking about. I believe this verse is talking about revenge. If my car window gets broken by someone and I find out who it is, dont go and break his window. The way I see it, and I may be wrong...its hard to understand but I pray for those in Iraq and I pray for those who are on the bad side that they will come to the realization that what they are doing is wrong. But at the same time, in order to be a peacemaker, you sometimes have to use force. "do good to them that hate you" I believe that we are doing good to them by freeing them, even though force is needed to free them. Now im sure there are things done that a christian would not like, but as a christian, you can be for or against the war based on christian beliefs, but as a non christian, there certainly are verses that you can use against a christian to show that christians shouldnt be for any war. I cant let someone suffer and if that means I must do something against the bible, I pray that 1) God would provide a means or way for me to take to NOT go against what he teaches, but if that way doesnt show itself, ill try to end the suffering of someone how I can and pray i did the right thing. Goes back to when Jews were being persecuted. The bible says "thou shalt not lie". Well if I was hiding Jews in my house and a soldier asked "are you hiding jews"...I would not tell them I was. I would try and hopefully the words would come so i could talk around without lying, but if i had to, id lie to save the jews. Will God send me to hell because of this? No i dont believe so because I do believe in him and that only thru Jesus will I go to heaven, and I pray for forgiveness but that what I did was the only way apparent to me to help someone's pain.

  4. #4
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    Okay you asked for it. This is THE dumbest post I have ever seen on this site, dumber than any Muslim extremist post. Go bury your head in the sand jackass.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Okay you asked for it. This is THE dumbest post I have ever seen on this site, dumber than any Muslim extremist post. Go bury your head in the sand jackass.
    and there goes a nice christian comment

  6. #6
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    I'm not gonna let you guys play with Christianity............I'LL SAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN SO YOU WILL UNDERSTAND , WE ARE NOT DOORMATS FOR THE WORLD.

    It is hilarious how libs and MUSLIMS try to twist our faith to suit their purposes.

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    Man Victor.....it's like you're taking Jesus and slapping him in the face......if you can't stand the gospel message....abandon the faith......there's no way you can weasel out of what He says.......
    I'll tell you what.....there ARE people who live the gospel as stated above......My sister and her husband are both surgeons who sacrificed and served in Africa(Zaire) for over 10 years.....(imagine the bucks they would have pulled down in the states)...and guess what.....my sis prefers the lifestyle of Zaire over that of the US......go figure.

  8. #8
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    They go to zaire as a missionary doctors?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Okay you asked for it. This is THE dumbest post I have ever seen on this site, dumber than any Muslim extremist post. Go bury your head in the sand jackass.
    Quoting Jesus is dumb? Are you a satan worshipper?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    I'm not gonna let you guys play with Christianity............I'LL SAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN SO YOU WILL UNDERSTAND , WE ARE NOT DOORMATS FOR THE WORLD.

    It is hilarious how libs and MUSLIMS try to twist our faith to suit their purposes.
    Actually you twist your own faith to fit your own needs. I am quoting the main man himself Jesus. However so called Christian Conservatives believe in Public School Prayer, War, the Death Penalty, and I highly doubt they have brought homeless people in to their homes and fed them.

  11. #11
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    Funny I read the threads in this forum and people are so adamant about their "Christian values" but when Jesus talks they can't be found.

  12. #12
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    what you mean PB?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    what you mean PB?
    It seems when people talk about being conservative they talk about ending welfare and pro-gun laws and at the same time claim to be christian. However look at what Jesus sais about that stuff. People came to murder Jesus and he didn't even pick up a weapon.

    Conservatives believe in harsh sentencing guidelines, however Jesus said Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not lest ye be judged. So are conservatives really Christian? aka followers in the teachings of Christ? I say no. Being against gay marriage doesn't make a Christian.

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    PB............If you had it your way Christians would have turned the other cheek into extinction. The most relevant teaching is spreading the word.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    PB............If you had it your way Christians would have turned the other cheek into extinction. The most relevant teaching is spreading the word.
    Why are you saying "My way", it is what Jesus said. I am not making it up.

  16. #16
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    Badger............until YOU become a missionary don't criticize ME. I understand the message I also believe that Jeus Christ needs warriors for the faith to spread the word. Does that mean I don't follow it? No, it means that I take a stand for it. And for taking a stand you criticize me and question my faith and interpretation of the scriptures, look into the mirror my friend.

  17. #17
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    all i will say is i love those quotes by JESUS (pbuh) ............and to follow them well , that is a hard thing to do these days !

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    This is too literal and moronic, PB go over to Iraq and turn the other cheek if you disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    all i will say is i love those quotes by JESUS (pbuh) ............and to follow them well , that is a hard thing to do these days !
    It is so hard to help the homeless in the richest country in the world. We have to spend our money making bombs with our "Christian" President.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    This is too literal and moronic, PB go over to Iraq and turn the other cheek if you disagree.
    What is moronic? Quoting Jesus?

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    PB ......go hug a tree. Homeless? Gimme a break . Do you know about the homeless? Please tell me why they are homeless, I know why but I want you to say so I can make you look as simpled minded as you are. After you post your response I will post mine.

  22. #22
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    PB self defense is antiChristian? Helping others is antiChristian?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    PB ......go hug a tree. Homeless? Gimme a break . Do you know about the homeless? Please tell me why they are homeless, I know why but I want you to say so I can make you look as simpled minded as you are. After you post your response I will post mine.
    Who cares what I think. Let's see what Jesus sais:
    If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
    [Matthew 19:21]

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    PB self defense is antiChristian?
    I dont know, lets see what Jesus sais.

    Resist
    not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39]

  25. #25
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    Hey Nut (Peanut Butter) - You have shown in your post that you have no understanding of the bible or of US Christians. To state that an entire class of people (conservatives) are against Jesus shows only your own prejudice and ignorance. Your bible quotes do not support your arguement (at all). You would be better off leading by example and not judging others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    This is too literal and moronic, PB go over to Iraq and turn the other cheek if you disagree.
    u know victor do u really believe that GOD intended Man to fight among each other by making him in different colors , NO we do this ourselves , all wars are nothing but evil whoever is doing it , evil begets evil , right now USA is purposely interferring with other nations problems , u cant be a self apointed police , u wanna ring the bell of freedom do it in our own country , we dont have to ring the bell everywhere for others , the maount of money we spend and getting our troops killed for some unknown reason is not right , we have such a huge country (usa) that we can use all our money here and make life a lot more better than making more freakin enemies in the world , do remember no power ever stays in power forever , they break and they usually break (look back in history) when they are at their top most peak , man cannot handle power only GOD can , so we always end up screwin ourselves over n over again , and we have done it throughout history !

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Hey Nut (Peanut Butter) - You have shown in your post that you have no understanding of the bible or of US Christians. To state that an entire class of people (conservatives) are against Jesus shows only your own prejudice and ignorance. Your bible quotes do not support your arguement (at all). You would be better off leading by example and not judging others.
    I am quoting Jesus. You are saying Jesus is wrong? It's not stuff I am making up, it is straight out of the bible. Who cares about my prejudices and all of that, my point is that conservatives are anti-jesus in their values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    u know victor do u really believe that GOD intended Man to fight among each other by making him in different colors , NO we do this ourselves , all wars are nothing but evil whoever is doing it , evil begets evil , right now USA is purposely interferring with other nations problems , u cant be a self apointed police , u wanna ring the bell of freedom do it in our own country , we dont have to ring the bell everywhere for others , the maount of money we spend and getting our troops killed for some unknown reason is not right , we have such a huge country (usa) that we can use all our money here and make life a lot more better than making more freakin enemies in the world , do remember no power ever stays in power forever , they break and they usually break (look back in history) when they are at their top most peak , man cannot handle power only GOD can , so we always end up screwin ourselves over n over again , and we have done it throughout history !
    Thank you. The problems with the Middle East and the US started when we spit in their faces and put military bases on their Holy Lands and pretty much told them we are bigger and badder than you, so kiss our ass.

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    Never is history has there been a country like the US that has done more good and ask for less in return. It amazes me how the Hate America 1st crowd wants to receive all the benefits that the US provides (democracy, freedom, rights to free speech all of which is enforced by the US military) but does not comprehend even on a fundemental level what must be done to make these rights available in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    u know victor do u really believe that GOD intended Man to fight among each other by making him in different colors , NO we do this ourselves , all wars are nothing but evil whoever is doing it , evil begets evil , right now USA is purposely interferring with other nations problems , u cant be a self apointed police , u wanna ring the bell of freedom do it in our own country , we dont have to ring the bell everywhere for others , the maount of money we spend and getting our troops killed for some unknown reason is not right , we have such a huge country (usa) that we can use all our money here and make life a lot more better than making more freakin enemies in the world , do remember no power ever stays in power forever , they break and they usually break (look back in history) when they are at their top most peak , man cannot handle power only GOD can , so we always end up screwin ourselves over n over again , and we have done it throughout history !

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    No you are interpreting what you think the bible says and trying to bend what you think it means in a preverted way. There is a BIG difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
    I am quoting Jesus. You are saying Jesus is wrong? It's not stuff I am making up, it is straight out of the bible. Who cares about my prejudices and all of that, my point is that conservatives are anti-jesus in their values.

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    Tell me about your giving? How much time and money have YOU donated to the homeless this year? The homeless are homeless because they choose to be. We either lock them up or let them live "free". Most are mildly mentally ill and when rounded up and given a home and food they leave on their own. They want the independance and are given a choice. Since you are the Christian authority ....tell me should we cage them in and rob them of their freedom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    No you are interpreting what you think the bible says and trying to bend what you think it means in a preverted way. There is a BIG difference.
    Explain how I am bending it in a perverted way? Can you back up your argument with verses or are you just making all of this up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Tell me about your giving? How much time and money have YOU donated to the homeless this year? The homeless are homeless because they choose to be. We either lock them up or let them live "free". Most are mildly mentally ill and when rounded up and given a home and food they leave on their own. They want the independance and are given a choice. Since you are the Christian authority ....tell me should we cage them in and rob them of their freedom?
    I said feed, shelter, and clothe the homeless not imprison them. How do you know they choose that? Who would choose to go without food for days? I fail to see your point.

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    I not surprised that you don't know how you are perverting to word of Jesus. This is because you have done little personal study on this subject and you are no doubt just regurgitating info you have come accross somewhere else. I will only site one example - so listen up (but all your quotes are equally bogus). The literal translation of what the bible say is Thou shall not MURDER. There is a big difference between kill and murder as it speaks directly to intent. Much like the intent of your post is to impugn the integrity of conservative christian beliefs. It is an insult to those of us that have faith and who are also conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    I will only site one example - so listen up (but all your quotes are equally bogus). The literal translation of what the bible say is Thou shall not MURDER. There is a big difference between kill and murder as it speaks directly to intent.
    1. I quoted verbatim. So wherever you are getting the word bogus from is beyond me. I was quoting Jesus. Is he bogus about his own message?


    2. Can you proove that this is the proper translation of thou shall not kill? Since I know nothing about this and am only regurgitating something I read somewhere (actually it's called the bible, you should check it out) can you enlighten me. Can you use a verse from the New Testament to enlighten me since you are apparently an authority. Such an authority that you can just spew out stuff without a verse to back it up whereas I do. If this were a court I would have hard evidence and yours would be opinions and circumstancial. Find verses and stop giving your opinion.

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    Ok super genius - here is an explanation that is given is such a way even a simpleton such as your self can understand it:

    http://www.biblestudy.org/question/notkill.html

    This is not opinion - it is fact. Your fundamental lack of understanding of scripture makes you appear either uneducated or just plain stupid. The link can help you with your lack of education, as for stupidity we shall see.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut Butter
    1. I quoted verbatim. So wherever you are getting the word bogus from is beyond me. I was quoting Jesus. Is he bogus about his own message?


    2. Can you proove that this is the proper translation of thou shall not kill? Since I know nothing about this and am only regurgitating something I read somewhere (actually it's called the bible, you should check it out) can you enlighten me. Can you use a verse from the New Testament to enlighten me since you are apparently an authority. Such an authority that you can just spew out stuff without a verse to back it up whereas I do. If this were a court I would have hard evidence and yours would be opinions and circumstancial. Find verses and stop giving your opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Ok super genius - here is an explanation that is given is such a way even a simpleton such as your self can understand it:

    http://www.biblestudy.org/question/notkill.html

    This is not opinion - it is fact. Your fundamental lack of understanding of scripture makes you appear either uneducated or just plain stupid. The link can help you with your lack of education, as for stupidity we shall see.
    Far from it. What you are doing right now is called "blowing smoke". It is a diversion tactic. Instead of focusing on what I am saying you are trying to divert attention to me. As much as I love talking about myself I would rather discuss the bible. However you and 1Victor on the other hand can not come up with even one verse to back up your statements, whereas I can. Sorry you do not understand the bible. So save you diversion tactics (and please dont blow more smoke and talk about diversion tactics ). If you want to discuss the bible I am here for you brother. If you want to twist the Lord's word and make up stuff without providing proof then I wish to not participate.

  38. #38
    Peanut Butter's Avatar
    Peanut Butter is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Ok super genius - here is an explanation that is given is such a way even a simpleton such as your self can understand it:

    http://www.biblestudy.org/question/notkill.html
    Thanks, this link backs me up even further.
    From your link.
    Should Christians involve themselves in warfare? I would argue that Christians should not participate in such activities because the New Covenant is a covenant of life, not of death ( 2 Corinthians 3:4-11). Under the New Covenant Christians do not execute people for sinning. The most drastic steps anyone can take against an unrepentant Christian are withholding brotherly fellowship from him until he repents ( 1 Corinthians 5:9-13; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15); and delivering or handing him over to Satan for spiritual correction ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 1 Timothy 1:18-20). It is unclear from the scriptures exactly what it means to turn someone over to Satan.

    Under the New Covenant a change occurred. Just as Christians are to no longer execute sinners, so they should not wage carnal war, but spiritual warfare ( John 18:36; 2 Corinthians 10:1-6; Ephesians 6:10-18; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 6:11-14; 2 Timothy 2:3-5; 4:6-8). Christians must be peacemakers ( Matthew 5:9, Romans 14:19), forgiving those who do them harm ( Ephesians 4:29-32; Colossians 3:12-14; Matthew 6:9-15; Mark 11:25-26), treating their enemies with love ( Luke 6:27-36) and not seeking revenge ( Romans 12:17-21; 1 Peter 3:8-12). Hatred which is the same as murder ( 1 John 3:15), is unforgiving, vengeful and hostile towards one's enemies.

  39. #39
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    Got anything else to back up my argument? It was really appreciated.

  40. #40
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    PB .....keep on posting you are showing your ass more and more. Do some research moron................do you even know about the homeless? Typical idiotic banter from someone who is a child. It also says love thy neighbor....you call it war I calle it protecting others from persuction/murder . Mince words all you want I am done with this crap, you are no longer worthy of my time.

    What about the mass graves? What about the rape and torture of people? Jesus would ask us not to help? Unlikely

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