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  1. #1
    Hot-Rox's Avatar
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    Any Thoughts On Bush's Inaugural Speech Today

    He talked about the World Wide expansion of Freedom and Liberty. Rhetoric or visionary?

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    I doubt he wrote that speech himself. It's probably just the work of his handlers . . .
    -Tock

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    LOL - that's a good one. Even your local state congressmen don't completely write their own speeches. Of course, Bush set the agenda and tone for the speech and that's what my question was referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    I doubt he wrote that speech himself. It's probably just the work of his handlers . . .
    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Of course, Bush set the agenda and tone for the speech and that's what my question was referring to.
    I doubt Bush could set a watch, much less the tone for national policies.
    -Tock

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Just don't mention the war Mr President!!

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    @ hot rox: after that speech try to tell th ppl again, that the Iran issue is left wing propaganda

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx***
    @ hot rox: after that speech try to tell th ppl again, that the Iran issue is left wing propaganda
    Not propoganda, Iran needs to be dealt with, and quickly.

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    yeah, now thats gonna be fun. 70 million ppl, basically all hate the US, a country 3 times bigger than Iraq. better organized and equipped army, religious fanatics. now have fun, Singern, u can do your part when the draft is coming! they will not react logically like Saddam, they r fanatics and they will use whatever is necessary to stop the US.

    US cant even handle Iraq, if they try to attack IRran.

    pls prepare a big big ceremony, u will think 911 was a piece of cake, if u fvck with those maniacs.

    how come ppl in the US think that u can bring democracy to all parts of the world? it is not possible, u can see it right now in Iraq. some ppljust dont get the message. I m sure, when a lot of more young ppl have died and ppl will come to senses.

    u know y the roman empire fell? it overstreched, it overestimated its power, it underated their enemies power. u do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx***
    yeah, now thats gonna be fun. 70 million ppl, basically all hate the US, a country 3 times bigger than Iraq. better organized and equipped army, religious fanatics. now have fun, Singern, u can do your part when the draft is coming! they will not react logically like Saddam, they r fanatics and they will use whatever is necessary to stop the US.
    US cant even handle Iraq, if they try to attack IRran.
    pls prepare a big big ceremony, u will think 911 was a piece of cake, if u fvck with those maniacs.
    how come ppl in the US think that u can bring democracy to all parts of the world? it is not possible, u can see it right now in Iraq. some ppljust dont get the message. I m sure, when a lot of more young ppl have died and ppl will come to senses.
    u know y the roman empire fell? it overstreched, it overestimated its power, it underated their enemies power. u do the math.

    You may be right , you may be a raving lunatic, but that doesn't change the fact Iran is the leading supporter, instigator, of international terror on the planet, and is rapidly closing in on nuclear weapons. nor does it mean any nation should cower in the face of evil.
    As to the draft, I see no down side in mandatory service. Me personally I am a proud veteran of the US armed forces, and if called upon ( if I wasn't too old to serve) I would go . Doing the right thing is no shame, so grow some balls.

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    Hey X - I think your slightly overestimating Iraq's military. It was completely crushed in the early 90's (when Iraq had the 4 largest standing army in the world) in less than 5 weeks and in less than the 30 days this time around. Don't confuse the military victors with the impletemation of a new goverment. Iran would be crushed just as easily and they know it. That is why they are negotiating stopping their nuclear program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx***
    u know y the roman empire fell? it overstreched, it overestimated its power, it underated their enemies power. u do the math.
    Actually, the decline of the Roman Empire corresponded with the growth of the Christian religion. Nowadays, the Christian right-wing nutcases are growing in political power, and the USA is becoming more disliked by the rest of the world, getting into more trouble abroad, and warning the public about such things as gay sponges (check out my post on this topic).

    My guess is that the Bush crazies will send the military into Iran, not because it's a good idea, but because they actually think that their God will protect the United States from un-godly powers. In the process, a lot of Americans are gonna get killed, the USA is gonna get hated even more, and the Chinese are gonna get first dibs on mideast oil to keep their economy growing . . .

    --Tock

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    A much better analgoy would be the stopping of Natzi Germany who would have risen to world domination if it weren't for the US and the allies. As usual Tock, the Hate America 1st crowd wants to hide behind America military protection, enjoying all the rights that come from democracy and freedom, but are willing to pay the price is costs. Be thankful that there are those who recognize evil and are willing to deal with it accordingly.

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    Thing about that is, that the Nazis had invaded a few other countries before the US got involved. Saddam Hussain invaded Kuwait in '91, and the US properly kicked his ass. But this war that Bush Jr. got us into, no, there was no invasion, there were no weapons of mass destruction, there were no terrorist training camps in his country,there was no atom bomb program, but the Bush Administration made it look like Saddam presented an immenant danger to the US, and then totally screwed up the entire going-to-war process by telling other countries with better common sense to go f--- themselves, that the US didn't need their help.
    JHC . . .
    Now the rest of the world hates the US because of this needless war.

    Too bad there aren't people in office who "recognize evil and can deal with it accordingly."

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    You may be right , you may be a raving lunatic, but that doesn't change the fact Iran is the leading supporter, instigator, of international terror on the planet, and is rapidly closing in on nuclear weapons. nor does it mean any nation should cower in the face of evil.
    As to the draft, I see no down side in mandatory service. Me personally I am a proud veteran of the US armed forces, and if called upon ( if I wasn't too old to serve) I would go . Doing the right thing is no shame, so grow some balls.
    what is the right thing? how come that u think that bringing war under false circumstances is the right thing. I call bs on that.
    and there is no doubt about that ypur government lied and drove the US to an unnecessary war. u think this is the right way? and u think that ppl think it s always right what the US say or does? that s really sad. your government is driving your country to hell and ppl like u r applauding.

    it s too bad that a lot of friends of mine will be affected of this war and they don t want to go to a war that was based on lies. dying for no reason, dying for oil.

    the US will come to conciousness, after a lot of more ppl have died. like in the vietnam war. sad, but it looks like that.

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    Actually, when you consider all the problems in the world and the proliferation of WMD.......the axis of evil runs right through MOSCOW and WASHINGTON DC

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    It is a shame people learn nothing from history and are destined to make the same exact mistakes. Let's not forget the Iraq broke 17 UN Security Council resolutions (after being beaten in the Gulf war). Let's not forget that he was not only the aggresser against Kuwait, but also against Iran a decade earlier. Do you really believe with the over 20 billion dollars Saddam scammed from the Oil for Food program and talks of lifting sanctions from Iraq that there would not have been future weapons of mass destruction? Much like when Hitler could have been easy dealt with before WWII the countries who had defeated German in WWI felt guilty. They allowed initial actions (Evil) to go on without ramifications. Then it was too late. We must learn from history, it is as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Thing about that is, that the Nazis had invaded a few other countries before the US got involved. Saddam Hussain invaded Kuwait in '91, and the US properly kicked his ass. But this war that Bush Jr. got us into, no, there was no invasion, there were no weapons of mass destruction, there were no terrorist training camps in his country,there was no atom bomb program, but the Bush Administration made it look like Saddam presented an immenant danger to the US, and then totally screwed up the entire going-to-war process by telling other countries with better common sense to go f--- themselves, that the US didn't need their help.
    JHC . . .
    Now the rest of the world hates the US because of this needless war.

    Too bad there aren't people in office who "recognize evil and can deal with it accordingly."

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx***
    what is the right thing? how come that u think that bringing war under false circumstances is the right thing. I call bs on that.
    and there is no doubt about that ypur government lied and drove the US to an unnecessary war. u think this is the right way? and u think that ppl think it s always right what the US say or does? that s really sad. your government is driving your country to hell and ppl like u r applauding.

    it s too bad that a lot of friends of mine will be affected of this war and they don t want to go to a war that was based on lies. dying for no reason, dying for oil.

    the US will come to conciousness, after a lot of more ppl have died. like in the vietnam war. sad, but it looks like that.

    Your argument would be valid if you didnt confuse the need to go to war, with a desire to go to war, No sane person wants war and bloodshed. I dont applaud war, but I do stand tall when there is a need for it.
    Those who cry foul are always those who cry help when confronted by that need.

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    That argument is so ridiculous. That's like saying that it is the guns responsibility when a murder is committed and not the person who pulled the trigger. To compare the US and its weapons to outlaw dictators like Saddam is same logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Actually, when you consider all the problems in the world and the proliferation of WMD.......the axis of evil runs right through MOSCOW and WASHINGTON DC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    It is a shame people learn nothing from history and are destined to make the same exact mistakes. Let's not forget the Iraq broke 17 UN Security Council resolutions (after being beaten in the Gulf war).
    Countries break UN resolutions all the time. Especially the US and Israel.






    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Much like when Hitler could have been easy dealt with before WWII the countries who had defeated German in WWI felt guilty. They allowed initial actions (Evil) to go on without ramifications. Then it was too late. We must learn from history, it is as simple as that.
    If you want to learn from history, you need to know what went on after World War I, and the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Ya, the British and the French demanded terms of repayment that were so harsh, that life in Germany was so awful, that the Germans supported politicians who capitalized on their abject misery and promised to teach "their oppressors" a thing or two.

    Similarly, the fundamental issue causing problems in the middle east center on the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The US and the United Nations got on the wrong side of this issue back in 1947, and the US in particular has been determined to force its solution on the Arab people whether they liked it or not. Well, they still don't like it, and they resent what's come of that and subsequent decisions so much, that they've taken to war, bombs, and now terrorism in the USA.
    IMHO, the arabs got a raw deal back in 1947, and now the US is paying for that mistake. The quickest way to solve all the mideast problems is to find a solution to the Palestinian problem acceptable to the Palestinians.

    Ya, Americans need to learn from history. But that's something Americans don't do very well.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Countries break UN resolutions all the time. Especially the US and Israel.

    -Tock
    Actually, the United States has formally declared itself outside the Jurisdiction of both the UN as well as the World Court. Hence, we can't "break" their resolutions or judgements, per se....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Actually, the United States has formally declared itself outside the Jurisdiction of both the UN as well as the World Court. Hence, we can't "break" their resolutions or judgements, per se....

    Ya.....rule of law for everybody but US.......

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    Who would enforce judgements or resolutions on the US? Nobody really has the will or ability, IMHO....

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    Tock - this is your worst argument yet. You are now saying that all Arab terrorism is justified due to the fact Israelie state is not legitimate. That makes about as much sense as the fact the United States is not legit because the native Indians were here first. Just completely bogus. Palestine had the opportunity to get more than 95% of what they wanted included their owe state on the Clinton bartered deal - but of course Arafat (biggest terrist of all) refused. This is about ignorance and hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Countries break UN resolutions all the time. Especially the US and Israel.








    If you want to learn from history, you need to know what went on after World War I, and the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Ya, the British and the French demanded terms of repayment that were so harsh, that life in Germany was so awful, that the Germans supported politicians who capitalized on their abject misery and promised to teach "their oppressors" a thing or two.

    Similarly, the fundamental issue causing problems in the middle east center on the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The US and the United Nations got on the wrong side of this issue back in 1947, and the US in particular has been determined to force its solution on the Arab people whether they liked it or not. Well, they still don't like it, and they resent what's come of that and subsequent decisions so much, that they've taken to war, bombs, and now terrorism in the USA.
    IMHO, the arabs got a raw deal back in 1947, and now the US is paying for that mistake. The quickest way to solve all the mideast problems is to find a solution to the Palestinian problem acceptable to the Palestinians.

    Ya, Americans need to learn from history. But that's something Americans don't do very well.

    -Tock
    These young punks can learn all the lyrics to the latest Eminem garbage......but don't know sh** about world history.......thanks for your insightful lesson Tock.....keep it up.......world powers squash people and then wonder why they resort to nasty methods and wierdos such as Hitler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Palestine had the opportunity to get more than 95% of what they wanted included their owe state on the Clinton bartered deal - but of course Arafat (biggest terrist of all) refused. This is about ignorance and hate.
    Even funnier is that when all of the (Arab/Moslem) countries bordering Isreal attacked it within nanoseconds of it's existence....Isreal kicked all of their asses, and then expanded it's borders beyond what the UN resolution originally gave them.

    Sucks to lose a war, huh?

    And Iran, Egypt, etc...all refused "to acknowledge the existence of Isreal"...

    I wonder who they thought was kicking the ever-lovin-SH!T out of them?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx***
    yeah, now thats gonna be fun. 70 million ppl, basically all hate the US, a country 3 times bigger than Iraq. better organized and equipped army, religious fanatics. now have fun, Singern, u can do your part when the draft is coming! they will not react logically like Saddam, they r fanatics and they will use whatever is necessary to stop the US.

    US cant even handle Iraq, if they try to attack IRran.

    pls prepare a big big ceremony, u will think 911 was a piece of cake, if u fvck with those maniacs.

    how come ppl in the US think that u can bring democracy to all parts of the world? it is not possible, u can see it right now in Iraq. some ppljust dont get the message. I m sure, when a lot of more young ppl have died and ppl will come to senses.

    u know y the roman empire fell? it overstreched, it overestimated its power, it underated their enemies power. u do the math.
    God Dam IT… The rest of the world will be a democracy LIKE IT OR NOT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Tock - this is your worst argument yet. You are now saying that all Arab terrorism is justified due to the fact Israelie state is not legitimate.
    No, not justified. But it shouldn't come as a surprise.
    The arabs had the UN take a chunk of their land and make a country out of it for foreigners. Imagine what the good people of Texas or South Carolina would do if the UN took 3000 square miles of coastal land and gave it to the castouts of Somalia to have for their own country. Well, that's what happened to them. The US has the stature to sucessfully object to such a thing, but the arabs didn't, at least not back in the 1940's.
    The Israelis were supposed to let the arabs who were living on the land remain, but an awful lot of 'em were evicted at gunpoint by the army, and it's this sort of stuff that started the bad feelings between the two nations.
    Then, the arabs saw all the financial support Israel got from the US over the years while they made life miserable for them, and while Israel was #1 on thier S--- list, the US got to be #2.

    So, while violence is not a good way to settle disputes, in the case of the Israeli-Arab conflict, it is certainly not a surprise that they're mad enough to turn to terrorism.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    These young punks can learn all the lyrics to the latest Eminem garbage......
    I have no idea who Eminem is . . . I'm still spinning 78's of Artie Shaw and Vaughn Monroe, lol . . .
    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    No, not justified. But it shouldn't come as a surprise.
    The arabs had the UN take a chunk of their land and make a country out of it for foreigners. Imagine what the good people of Texas or South Carolina would do if the UN took 3000 square miles of coastal land and gave it to the castouts of Somalia to have for their own country. Well, that's what happened to them. The US has the stature to sucessfully object to such a thing, but the arabs didn't, at least not back in the 1940's.
    The Israelis were supposed to let the arabs who were living on the land remain, but an awful lot of 'em were evicted at gunpoint by the army, and it's this sort of stuff that started the bad feelings between the two nations.
    Then, the arabs saw all the financial support Israel got from the US over the years while they made life miserable for them, and while Israel was #1 on thier S--- list, the US got to be #2.

    So, while violence is not a good way to settle disputes, in the case of the Israeli-Arab conflict, it is certainly not a surprise that they're mad enough to turn to terrorism.

    -Tock
    Sorry Tock. Your argument is mute because you base your argument on the idea that Jews (israelis) are not the indiginous people of the land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Sorry Tock. Your argument is mute because you base your argument on the idea that Jews (israelis) are not the indiginous people of the land.

    The Arabs had posession of the land for at least the past thousand years, that's good enough for US Courts where the Native Americans made attempts to get their land back . . .
    It wasn't until about 100 years ago that Jews started moving back to the middle east, and by then they had long lost any title to the land they may have owned in the past.
    Sorry, but that's how the cookie crumbles . . .
    =Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    The Arabs had posession of the land for at least the past thousand years, that's good enough for US Courts where the Native Americans made attempts to get their land back . . .
    It wasn't until about 100 years ago that Jews started moving back to the middle east, and by then they had long lost any title to the land they may have owned in the past.
    Sorry, but that's how the cookie crumbles . . .
    =Tock
    That's b.s. Jews were buying land from Arabs shortly before 47'. It doesn't matter if you think the Palestinians got a raw deal from the U.N. The refusal of Arafat to come to agreeable terms with Barak show that no deal is acceptable to the Palestinians besides the complete annihilation of Israel. You could put all of Israel into a 1000 sqaure ft building and it still wouldn't be good enough, unless it came with a suicide bomber. Maybe Abu Mazen will get some progress done, but I don't expect it any time soon. Israel will probably lose by demographics in the end anyway. Even if there was a Palestinian state, won't it just be another pathetic mideast country?

    And I don't see how people here are worried about a draft for a confrontation with Iran. There is no way that the U.S., including the administration, congress, or the general public will go for another war like Iraq again anytime soon. This one will be by sheer airpower. I don't think America honestly gives a **** anymore if Iran becomes a democracy. There will be little or no rebuilding effort like Iraq is now. Bush's inauguration speech was mostly just an excuse to justify Iraq without having to mention it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    He talked about the World Wide expansion of Freedom and Liberty. Rhetoric or visionary?
    I just thought it was quite ironic that bush was talking about freedom an liberty while he put Washington DC in it's biggest lockdown in history...

    Red

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    We live in a post 9/11 world. The fact the for the entire 1990's US and other targets were attacked, but no action was taken:

    • the 1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York that left six dead and hundreds of injured
    • a 1994 bombing of a Philippine airliner that killed one and injured ten crew and passengers
    • an assassination attempt on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak during his visit to Ethiopia in 1995
    • an attack in 1996 that killed 19 American soldiers at a military housing complex in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
    • the 1998 bombing of the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya that killed 235 and injured 5,500
    • the bomb attack on the USS Cole in Yemen harbor that killed 17 U.S. sailors in the year 2000
    Post 3,000 Americans being murdered on US soil, it only stands to reason that you keep security as tight as possible to avoid any further attacks. And, more important, you hunt down any aggressors of the US or it's allies where they live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carbs-rule
    That's b.s. Jews were buying land from Arabs shortly before 47'.
    Well, the arabs didn't have an Israeli army forcibly evicting them from their land before 1947.
    -Tock

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    Don't you find it interesting with the comparatively large Arabs states surrounding Israel that none of them have offered the Palestinians any land where a permanent state could be established. But, these same Arabs countries (Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Iraq and even Egypt & Jordan) can manage to financially support any hostile group willing to murder of innocent Israeli civilians. This has nothing to do with land and everything to do with religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Well, the arabs didn't have an Israeli army forcibly evicting them from their land before 1947.
    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Don't you find it interesting with the comparatively large Arabs states surrounding Israel that none of them have offered the Palestinians any land where a permanent state could be established.
    Not really.

    Suppose the United Nations gave persecuted Somalians 2000 square miles of South Texas for their own nation. Should Mexico be expected to cede some of its territory to the USA to help make up for the loss suffered by American landowners, or should the UN be told to go take a flying leap?

    Ya, what smart people should have done back in 1947 is defended the property rights of the Arabs, and tole the Jewish folks that no, they weren't going to get their own nation, but could live alongside arabs in Palestine, and leave things at that. But too many smart people didn't give a rat's ass, and didn't say anything . . . and too many people made a mistake thinking that the poor survivors of the holocaust deserved someone else's property for a country to call their own. Well, the mistake was made, and now we're paying the price for it.

    Anyway, the short answer to your question is, "No."

    -Tock

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    Good stuff, great speach, Iran your next!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Good stuff, great speach, Iran your next!

    You sure talk tough from the sidelines. Why don't you enlist and go fight Iran.

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    Where do you get off deciding whether or not the state of Israel has the right to exist? Do you have any idea how pompous and flat out wrong you are?

    You remind me of the current state of the democratic party in the US. They have been beaten badly in most of the recent national elections (for the past 10 years), but they are so arrogant they don't believe they have lost on substance they say there loses are due to their message is getting out. It got out, the public has simply rejected it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Not really.

    Ya, what smart people should have done back in 1947 is defended the property rights of the Arabs, and tole the Jewish folks that no, they weren't going to get their own nation, but could live alongside arabs in Palestine, and leave things at that. But too many smart people didn't give a rat's ass, and didn't say anything . . . and too many people made a mistake thinking that the poor survivors of the holocaust deserved someone else's property for a country to call their own. Well, the mistake was made, and now we're paying the price for it.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Where do you get off deciding whether or not the state of Israel has the right to exist?
    Where? I'm here in Texas.





    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    Do you have any idea how pompous and flat out wrong you are?
    I'm sure you'll offer your thoughts on the subject . . .





    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    You remind me of the current state of the democratic party in the US. They have been beaten badly in most of the recent national elections (for the past 10 years),
    Well, the ratio of Democrats to Republicans in the Congress is pretty close. So I would say that things are actually pretty close -- at least, much closer than you would have us think . . .






    Quote Originally Posted by Hot-Rox
    but they are so arrogant they don't believe they have lost on substance they say there loses are due to their message is getting out.
    I must have missed that announcement.
    Actually, some Democrats are re-evaluating their support for women's personal reproductive rights, and it won't be long before you see Democrats voting to do away with women's rights to have abortions. Latest bit of legislation (just heard about it tonight) is someone in Congress introduced legislation that would make it illegal to accompany a minor across state lines if she was going to get an abortion. Later on will come approval of more Supreme Court Judges who will vote to overturn Roe Vs Wade, and abortions in the US will be illegal once again. We'll be back to what it was like in the 1950's, thanks mostly to Republicans, but some Democrats will have participated in this backward march of individual rights . . .

    The way American society is, it's goes in cycles . . . conservative for a while, then liberal for a while, then back to conservative, and etc etc etc. IMHO, the Christian Right Wing will have enough control for enough time to change enough laws to piss off enough people to motivate them to vote for liberals once again. It's just a matter of time . . .

    -Tock

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