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  1. #1
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    Ring the bell for us all for the cause of nothing at all. for all religious folks

    First of all I don’t think I should have a broker between myself and the truth (that which is god) . GOD is just truth it does not have human qualities, it is always evolving and changing, and even it is not immortal. Everything will come to an end at the very end. So religion is out and it has been for a long time (for me). There is no seeking in god when reality and true worldly conditions is obscured in the name of scriptures. All that religion does is #1 politicize human struggle for power and might, and perhaps immortality of some sort. #2 give significance to human life versus other life (man was made in the image of god…blah blah). What about the **** trees and the rest of the living things. What makes us so special to have this special reward system setup just for our species....HOW ARROGANT OF US IS THAT, to create such comforting delusions? Worst of all we see how this lust for superiority thrives today (Jewish nationalism/Zionism, Islam/jihadism, Christian crusade/scary nuns, the Khomeinis, the Robertsons, and the Sharons).
    As a person, all I wish for is for life to go on after we all eventually become extinct, and I hope we don’t kill everything else with us. Please realise your insignificance because in it you might save life; THERE IS NO YOU AFTER YOU DIE. ta ta.

    i hope i get some opinions here.

  2. #2
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    Nice rant..............feel better?

  3. #3
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    a leap of faith

    Interesting read Red
    Since I am not a religious man I can relate to some of what you posted. Now dig this, even the thoughts you posted are a form of faith. Regardless of weather we believe in God, or subscribe to a particular religion, or chose not to follow organized religion at all. These are all in there own way a leap of faith.
    Me personally I live, and raise my children by one simple rule.
    "Be a good person, treat others with the same respect you want for yourself."

    Last edited by singern; 01-24-2005 at 08:13 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Nice rant..............feel better?
    THANK YOU. YOU WIN.

  5. #5
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    what makes us so special that we get rewards and the trees and other animals dont? By looking at the animals and plants and such, comparing to humans, whether you believe in God or not, i dont see how anyone could think this world is not centered around humans. as for rewards, i dont think it says anything that there wont be plants and animals in heaven too.

  6. #6
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    I cant really debate how you feel Red. You believe this, your mind is set, theres nothing to debate, just questions to ask i guess.

    How do you think the earth was created and all life was created?

  7. #7
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    Humans is just hairless monkeys that have gotten a bit to smart(but not smart enough to realise arrogance is stupid) and is now destroying everything in sight

  8. #8
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    what makes us so special that we get rewards and the trees and other animals dont? By looking at the animals and plants and such, comparing to humans, whether you believe in God or not, i dont see how anyone could think this world is not centered around humans. as for rewards, i dont think it says anything that there wont be plants and animals in heaven too.

    oh how conveniant....animals and trees go to heaven too....lol

    did you have a talk with god? i never said i dont believe in god...all i tried to argue about is that i dont think god's "work" - the perfect starter of all naturally consequential events - is intentional for the sake of human beings and human superiority.

    but as long as you convince yourself that trees and animals will also get a fair share of this fantacy after life, then all logic will not matter and stupidity will remain.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwizza
    First of all I don’t think I should have a broker between myself and the truth (that which is god) . GOD is just truth it does not have human qualities, it is always evolving and changing, and even it is not immortal. Everything will come to an end at the very end. So religion is out and it has been for a long time (for me). There is no seeking in god when reality and true worldly conditions is obscured in the name of scriptures. All that religion does is #1 politicize human struggle for power and might, and perhaps immortality of some sort. #2 give significance to human life versus other life (man was made in the image of god…blah blah). What about the **** trees and the rest of the living things. What makes us so special to have this special reward system setup just for our species....HOW ARROGANT OF US IS THAT, to create such comforting delusions? Worst of all we see how this lust for superiority thrives today (Jewish nationalism/Zionism, Islam/jihadism, Christian crusade/scary nuns, the Khomeinis, the Robertsons, and the Sharons).
    As a person, all I wish for is for life to go on after we all eventually become extinct, and I hope we don’t kill everything else with us. Please realise your insignificance because in it you might save life; THERE IS NO YOU AFTER YOU DIE. ta ta.

    i hope i get some opinions here.
    where to start...

    here goes........

    first off "Please realise your insignificance because in it you might save life; "... if i am insignificant, and everyone else is... why is it essential to save insignificant lives??? and if there is no god, you are right, everyone is insignificant... but so also are the ideas of good and bad... good and bad come from the fact that a deity holds one responsible for his or her actions... as good is an action that god wants you to do and bad or evil are actions that are opposite of those good actions... lets examine what good and evil are without a god........ they are nothing but words... the fact that i will be held accountable for my actions post-life causes me to act in a "good" way... if there is no god, what is keeping me from killing you, stealing your wallet or doing whatever i want to you or anyone else (assuming i can get away with it)??? there is nothing that holds me from doing these things... so why the hell would i do them??? it doesnt make sense to act accountably if there is nobody to be accountable to... for example... would you have done your homework in middleschool if the teacher didn't assign it? HELL NO... just like you wouldnt do something that will make you worse off (not stealing or taking money out of somebody's wallet) unless you are told not to by somebody who can actually know that you did it (the gov wouldnt know if you stole 20 bucks from a friends wallet)... so it doesnt make sense, if you are right, for any of us to do anything that is better for ourselves... if nobody sees it, it didnt happen.......

    secondly, since you seem to be so up on the times, saying that god is obsolete... this is an age in which one hold science and reason paramount... and it is unreasonable to not believe in god... pascal's wager is as follows.............

    What are the outcomes in your choice to believe in God???
    1. If you belive in god and there isnt a god you are fine... nothing happens...
    2. If you don't believe in god and there isnt a god you are fine... nothing happens...
    3. If you believe in god and there is a god you go to heaven... something good happens...
    4. If you don't believe in god and there is a god you are in some S*** because you are going to hell...

    *** the only bad thing that happens to you is if you dont believe in god and there is a god... why would you chose to do that??? it is unreasonable and illogical... do do this you are acting irrationally... also, to believe in god you are chosing the choice with the only positive outcome... why wouldnt you do this??? just answer that question

    "....HOW ARROGANT OF US IS THAT, to create such comforting delusions? "........ my question to you is... how arrogant are you to assume that you are the largest thing in the world or... your importance as that of everything elses in the world... if no god exists what disinguishes one particle from another??? the answer is nothing... how arrogant are you to assume that you know that in an infinite universe you can make an assumption that nothing exists outside of your finite reach and perspective??? how arrogant and ignorant do you have to be to tell me that no god exists out past where our eye can see through telescopes, or any other scientific meathod??? your problem is that you cant be intelligent and be an atheist, the two don't go hand in hand... for example... atheism involves knowing... or believing that there is no god... to do so you have to base all of your knowledge on science because that is all that is left for you unless you are a relativist in which case we shouldnt even be talking because relatively speaking we are both correct, and, you wouldnt argue with anybody's beliefs if you were anyway, because you would believe they were right as well...... and if all of your beliefs are based on a finite science, then it is impossible to tell anyone that no god exists in an infinite universe given finite scoping devices, because theoretically a god could exist outside of your reach... due to this you cant tell me that no god exits, so all you can be is agnostic...

    why do you even "hope" for anything, your hope is useless and is as you so blatantly put it "insignificant..." so f*** your "hope"... because without a god... why hope for anything... hope is useless and its a weakness... make yourself stronger, and better than everyone else... if evolution occured you should be actively in pursuit of keeping yourself strong because "only the strong survive"... and hopeing that something else... such as trees... will survive longer than you is weak and will only end up in your demise... only keep the tree around if it is going to better ur strength, but as soon as you need it for protection, but that b**** down and use it because u gotta fend for yourself if no god exists.........................

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite



    *** the only bad thing that happens to you is if you dont believe in god and there is a god... why would you chose to do that??? it is unreasonable and illogical... do do this you are acting irrationally... also, to believe in god you are chosing the choice with the only positive outcome... why wouldnt you do this??? just answer that question


    .........................

    Good Job ! ................ agree 100% couldnt not have said it better !

  11. #11
    EatRite's Avatar
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    i know... i'm not the most religious person in the world, but i'm not so arrogant that i go out and criticize religion in general... just think and it makes sense...

    also... if he's right, and we are just "evolving" why are these terrorists that bad at all??? they are the next step in microevolution... the strong are surviving... and why is HITLER all that bad??? he was trying to advance evolution... he was making sure that the strong survived... if you dont believe in god... and you believe in evolution, you cant say that Hitler or Nazi Germany were all that bad... and if you can, i'd love to hear why... without god WHAT DEFINES BAD???

  12. #12
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    The meaning of life is not to please a god. Its to live a happy life and you cant live a happy life beeing a dick towards everyone. That will always backlash at you.
    So its better to be kind and generous to fellow man for your own happiness and satisfaction. Doesnt require a god for people to do good, just simple logic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwizza
    oh how conveniant....animals and trees go to heaven too....lol

    did you have a talk with god? i never said i dont believe in god...all i tried to argue about is that i dont think god's "work" - the perfect starter of all naturally consequential events - is intentional for the sake of human beings and human superiority.

    but as long as you convince yourself that trees and animals will also get a fair share of this fantacy after life, then all logic will not matter and stupidity will remain.
    The bible has all indications that heaven in the sense that people die and fly up into the clouds to a heaven is wrong, that heaven will be a "heaven on earth". I see it kind of like the garden of eden before the sin of adam. there were animals and plants and God. Why the "you're stupid max, how convenient, did you talk to god?" Do you think that heaven will just be spirits and God and clouds? if so, then ok. But im a christian and there is no indication of a spiritual heaven. I dont have to convince myself that trees and animals go to heaven. I dont ever think about it. You brought it up. I gave my view.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    The meaning of life is not to please a god. Its to live a happy life and you cant live a happy life beeing a dick towards everyone. That will always backlash at you.
    So its better to be kind and generous to fellow man for your own happiness and satisfaction. Doesnt require a god for people to do good, just simple logic.
    Of course we believe differently, but I believe the meaning of life IS to please God. If I didnt believe in a God and there was nothing wrong with killing and stealing, and I used logic, why wouldnt I steal and kill. Once that person I kill and steal from is dead, hes no more, hes not in heaven or hell, hes just nothing. And I get all of his stuff. If i was killed, who cares, i wont know a difference and i wont be in heaven or hell. Logically without God, this makes perfect sense. But God put goodness and love in our hearts, and thus good is logical.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Of course we believe differently, but I believe the meaning of life IS to please God. If I didnt believe in a God and there was nothing wrong with killing and stealing, and I used logic, why wouldnt I steal and kill. Once that person I kill and steal from is dead, hes no more, hes not in heaven or hell, hes just nothing. And I get all of his stuff. If i was killed, who cares, i wont know a difference and i wont be in heaven or hell. Logically without God, this makes perfect sense. But God put goodness and love in our hearts, and thus good is logical.
    But the person you killed might have family that will hunt you down. What goes around comes around. Humans are pack animals and we need other people to function properly. If we behave like asses then we will be alone and a pack animal cant be happy alone, its built into us.
    If there is a god and he loves you. Dont you think he would want you to please yourself and not please him? If I love a person I want that person to be happy even if it means he/she has to do things I dont aggre with. I wouldnt say "do this or you will never again be loved by me"

    I think its very cynical to think that people are only good becuase of god. I would rather think that people are good because its in our nature. Also helping others means others will help you. Nothing to lose and all to gain by helping. But killing, stealing, robbing, raping, murdering that wont give you anything in the long run. Just enemys.

  16. #16
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    johan:
    you are trying to argue a hobbsian standpoint, that man does things to protect himself and that whatever we do, we do it for our own good... what you are argueing is that acting well puts us in our best situation... because if we do bad there will be consequences... for example... we don't kill because we will end up worse for it than if we didnt kill (the family will come after you)... you cant say that that holds all the time... what if the person you kill is a homeless dude??? you are bettering society, you are not going to have family come after you, and if it is random and nobody sees it, you will probably get away with it... does that make it o.k.??? because it betters society??? i dont understand how you can say that there is anything wrong with this...

    AND DON'T always follow logic... logically it makes sence... without god anyway... to get rid of the cancers of society, by that i mean the mentally challanged, the homeless or the "inferior races" (idont believe there is an inferior race but some people do... aka.. HITLER)... and i dont see how removing these people from society isnt logical, it will open up resources for the community... these people leach off of society... why not get rid of them??? logically it makes sense... you say "because it's wrong" and i say... why is it wrong??? there isnt anybody holding you accountable so who f'n cares... i sure wouldnt....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite
    johan:
    you are trying to argue a hobbsian standpoint, that man does things to protect himself and that whatever we do, we do it for our own good... what you are argueing is that acting well puts us in our best situation... because if we do bad there will be consequences... for example... we don't kill because we will end up worse for it than if we didnt kill (the family will come after you)... you cant say that that holds all the time... what if the person you kill is a homeless dude??? you are bettering society, you are not going to have family come after you, and if it is random and nobody sees it, you will probably get away with it... does that make it o.k.??? because it betters society??? i dont understand how you can say that there is anything wrong with this...

    AND DON'T always follow logic... logically it makes sence... without god anyway... to get rid of the cancers of society, by that i mean the mentally challanged, the homeless or the "inferior races" (idont believe there is an inferior race but some people do... aka.. HITLER)... and i dont see how removing these people from society isnt logical, it will open up resources for the community... these people leach off of society... why not get rid of them??? logically it makes sense... you say "because it's wrong" and i say... why is it wrong??? there isnt anybody holding you accountable so who f'n cares... i sure wouldnt....
    Well deep down inside most people know what is right and wrong. But that doesnt prove god put those feeling inside us. Its probably either a product of our childhood or just something we are born with because we are pack animals.

    Does a person that has grown upp al alone outside of society with no humans around him have good moral. That would answere the question I guess. Cannibalism is wrong but still alot of tribes where doing it. Had god forgoten to put moral into there bodies or did they just think differently on whats right and wrong

  18. #18
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    you say that deep down inside of people they know what is right and wrong, but for you to assume that everybody ahs the same perception of what is right and wrong doesnt make sense... and if there is no god, then everybody's ideas of what is right and wrong are universally acceptable because thats how that specific person was made... if charles manson wants do do what he did, then whatever, because that was "his conviction"... the problem occurs because you cant say that you're inharently accepted morality is any better than his because you are no different than him... so nobody's actions can be considered wrong unless morality comes from society... but if it does, like you say it could, which society created it??? in the beginning of societies there was no societies... so if people got their morals from society... there had to be an initial society for them to derive their morality from... this couldnt happen because that society doesnt exist.... if you say that people get their morals from their parents or people around them, people always do things that their parents don't condone... so i dont see how this fits in...

  19. #19
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    sociteies evolved like everything else. It probably started with smal tribes and they realised that killing of eachother for every petty thing is bad for the tribe so it became a crime to kill. Then they realised its bad when people **** with eachothers partners cause it creates jealosy and then they banned that and so on....Is that realy hard to belive?

    I dont assume that everyone has the same perception of what is right or wrong and that is my point. If the feeling of right and wrong had a divine source then it should be the same in every human beeing.

    People always does what there parents dont condone is only right to a certain degree. My parents dont condone me killing someone and you dont se me running around shooting people just because of that fact. What is forbidden is always tempting but it usualy dont get out of hand and the values of the parents sooner or later usualy gets passed on to the children when they become adults themself.

  20. #20
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    i wasnt saying one thing specifically... you said that morality could come from a number of things and i offered three examples to how morality wouldnt come from those things........

    it isnt hard to believe that morality came from societies... however tribes arent considered societies... so if you say that morality came from tribes... maybe... but even so... that doesnt explain why momality even matters without a god... morality isnt sh*t without god man... do u understand what i mean???

    i'm not saying that god imparts morality into us or that he delivers it to us devinely... i'm saying that god created an objective morality and we find that through searching for him... he doesnt make us all believe the same sh*t, but he has it there and if we search for him we'll find it.......

    and w/ the parents thing... u said that we can get our morality from our parents... or something like that... or from the people surrounding us... i was saying that if that was true objectively, then nobody would do anything different or against what the people around them do.... i didnt clarify it and if u want me to i'll type a long a** explanation which does explain it.... but i dont feel like typing that much...

  21. #21
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    I dont realy understand why you say that morality is meaningless without a god.

    Isnt it meaningfull to help fellow man even if there is no god.

    Do we do everyhing just to be rewarded in heaven? When I do a favor to a friend I dont think "now god is gonna like me". No I take joy into knowing I have aided a friend in need.....

    Can you explain more indepth what you mean with morality doesnt mean anything without a god.....

  22. #22
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    also we do things different from our parents and the people around it because we are all individuals that inturpit what we are thought in different ways and that makes us act different even if the moral values are roughly the same. Thats my oppinion atleast.

    Most people want to help other humans. But some do alot more then others and others help in completely different ways, but its still the same moral values that is the reason behind the actions. The moral is the same, the actions completely different...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite
    pascal's wager is as follows.............

    What are the outcomes in your choice to believe in God???
    1. If you belive in god and there isnt a god you are fine... nothing happens...
    2. If you don't believe in god and there isnt a god you are fine... nothing happens...
    3. If you believe in god and there is a god you go to heaven... something good happens...
    4. If you don't believe in god and there is a god you are in some S*** because you are going to hell...

    I wish I had a nickle for every time we've covered Pascal's Wager.

    One of the problems with it is that in #4, if you happened to beleive in the wrong god (there have been thousands of religions, all with different sets of gods and goddesses), you'd risk enraging it because of your "foolishness and idolotry" and there's no telling what some of those gods will do to ya because of it . . .
    So, the best option is to beleive in ALL gods and godesses, in the hope the One True God(s) will cut ya some slack for not knowing which one is the Only True God.
    But Christians won't take their own suggestion -- to do what will give them the best statistical chance for a pleasant afterlife -- because the only use they have for Pascal's Wager is as a tool to threaten and scare gullible people. Ya, it's just another way for them to say, "Beleive or Burn!"

    Blaise Pascal was a pretty good mathematician, but a lousy theologian.

    --Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite
    and if you can, i'd love to hear why... without god WHAT DEFINES BAD???
    Glad to oblige.


    Simply put,
    Good = that which advances our best interests.
    Evil = that which opposes our best interests.


    Someone who steals our $$$ at gunpoint is evil, because his actions oppose our best interests.
    But you take that same person, and if he gives that $$$ to someone who needs it to feed a starving family, and he becomes Good, at least as far as that family is concerned.

    Ya, Good & Evil are relative, depends on who's best interests are being advanced/opposed.

    Don't need a god to figure that out.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Of course we believe differently, but I believe the meaning of life IS to please God. If I didnt believe in a God and there was nothing wrong with killing and stealing, and I used logic, why wouldnt I steal and kill.
    Why don't you ask an atheist that question? The vast majority of atheists don't rape, ravage, pillage, plunder, steal, or murder. There's probably a reason why.

    -Tock

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Humans is just hairless monkeys :
    I wish that was true for all of us man, it would have saved me hundreds on the lazer hair removal!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwizza
    First of all I don’t think I should have a broker between myself and the truth (that which is god) . GOD is just truth it does not have human qualities, it is always evolving and changing, and even it is not immortal. Everything will come to an end at the very end. So religion is out and it has been for a long time (for me). There is no seeking in god when reality and true worldly conditions is obscured in the name of scriptures. All that religion does is #1 politicize human struggle for power and might, and perhaps immortality of some sort. #2 give significance to human life versus other life (man was made in the image of god…blah blah). What about the **** trees and the rest of the living things. What makes us so special to have this special reward system setup just for our species....HOW ARROGANT OF US IS THAT, to create such comforting delusions? Worst of all we see how this lust for superiority thrives today (Jewish nationalism/Zionism, Islam/jihadism, Christian crusade/scary nuns, the Khomeinis, the Robertsons, and the Sharons).
    As a person, all I wish for is for life to go on after we all eventually become extinct, and I hope we don’t kill everything else with us. Please realise your insignificance because in it you might save life; THERE IS NO YOU AFTER YOU DIE. ta ta.

    i hope i get some opinions here.


    Well red i agree with most of what you say. But you have to be careful, most the religious fanatics will just flame you, since it is them that cant tolerate or respect other peoples beliefs. I said it before and i will say it again, religion was created to give humanity some direction, it is now an instrument of war.
    I mean try explaining evoulution to these religious fanatics, they cant comprehend that we actually have bones that will link the evolution of man from Homo erectus to homo sapien. or that at one time there was two species of man the Neanderthals and humans, and that the neanderthal all went extinct - did somebody just plant all these bones to trick us???

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    Back to the thread topic. What makes you think that our "rape and pillage" of the earth is not part of the grand scheme of things, part of the "evolutionary process"? To think that as a species we can alter the course of the outcome of the planet smacks of arrogance.

    Logic would dictate that if we CAN alter the outcome we ARE superior and worthy of that status which quashes your initial argument. Either we ARE more signifigant and have an obligation or we are not. Which is it? According to your post we are no more or less signifigant or important than worms.

  29. #29
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    helloooooooooooooooooooooooo......ppl of the sad sad world..... when did i ever say that i do not believe in god....in my post i never say that, i say that i dont believe that there is this god that made everything for us to be exploited by us. i cant believe how most cant just see that. i thought i was using VERY plain language. im not reposting my thread...plz reread if u DONT get it.

  30. #30
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Back to the thread topic. What makes you think that our "rape and pillage" of the earth is not part of the grand scheme of things, part of the "evolutionary process"? To think that as a species we can alter the course of the outcome of the planet smacks of arrogance.

    Logic would dictate that if we CAN alter the outcome we ARE superior and worthy of that status which quashes your initial argument. Either we ARE more signifigant and have an obligation or we are not. Which is it? According to your post we are no more or less signifigant or important than worms.

    lol, i never said that we can ever alter the outcome of anything that is in universal existence, like the potentials in other planets and galaxies, potentials in species on earth also, that will exist and evolve as we deteriote and become fossils for 'another' day. the sad problem about the religion fantacy is that those who live in religion will never realise the mistakes in their interpretation of life when they die, after that like i said, there is no you.
    so no i do not believe that we are superiour.....in fact I WAS TRYING TO SAY THE OPPOSITIE.
    Last edited by redwizza; 02-01-2005 at 12:43 AM.

  31. #31
    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    oh yeah and that pascal theory, i came across it when i was 16, thought about what it meant, gave it a smirk, and i still do......i am indifferent about it because my mind is not a calculator, it does not work like that.

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    redwizza is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Of course we believe differently, but I believe the meaning of life IS to please God. If I didnt believe in a God and there was nothing wrong with killing and stealing, and I used logic, why wouldnt I steal and kill. Once that person I kill and steal from is dead, hes no more, hes not in heaven or hell, hes just nothing. And I get all of his stuff. If i was killed, who cares, i wont know a difference and i wont be in heaven or hell. Logically without God, this makes perfect sense. But God put goodness and love in our hearts, and thus good is logical.

    sure i understand how you feel, but understand that all of that you believe in religion can then be interpreted metaphorically. that is surely fine, a sort of meditation of some sort by giving ones self some path and interpretation in a meaning for your existence....therefore religion STILL should NOT be interpreted as FACT or UNIVERSAL truth. it can be your truth in your head but it cannot be anything beyond. you will still not exist after you die. your existence will be your remains, and that is how life goes on. life does not go on when we all die.....not for us, but without us it will go on. why can you not find peace in that? again......FIND YOUR OWN INSIGNIFICANCE.

  33. #33
    viking_warrior_2k is offline Junior Member
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    Alright, here's my 2cents worth...

    The earth was perfect before Adam fell (Adam of the famed reality couple "Adam & Eve"). When Adam screwed the pooch (ate the apple - hehe), he allowed sin into the world, and it's been chaotic ever since. Simple, huh? Explains all the turmoil and angst. Congratulations, you've just given birth to evil in the world!

    Almost all ancient religions point to one "peace-maker" coming back to bring peace, and the world being re-created. I wonder how they all communicated... Was it the internet? How did the ancient Incas and all of the other Eastern world religions "guess" at this? Hmmm, interesting... Now, a lot of you show your ignorance of the Bible, because it's prophesied that God will destroy the this earth and rebuild it. Soooo...

    We're not going to spend eternity in Heaven. You Bible scholars can back me up on this. If you believe in the Bible / Old Testament / Torah, then you know that God is going to give the new earth back over to us after he wipes it clean and 'rebuilds' it. Hey, it's in there... just read Revelation. It's said that God will give it over to those who've proven themselves worthy. Aha! For you tree-huggers and green-pieces, there's your vindication! You get to rule the earth! j/k...

    If you look at the current state of the world, it's obvious we are NOT evolving. How is it that geneticists, who can now track generations of humans, have stated that at some point a few thousand years ago, the human population bottle-necked and was wiped out? There was a whole show on the Discovery Channel given to this genetic study. Hmmm... Being the astute Sunday-school kid I was, I remember something about a great flood and animals & a boat, or something like that, which ironically happened within the same time frame that these geneticists made their claim. I just think it's funny that the Discovery Channel show didn't even mention the "great flood", even though the time-line adds up.

    Just a side-note... The "survival of the fittest" is a bunch of crap. The strongest cave-man who survived wasn't the one who went out to fight the dinosaur, but the scared little ****** who ran back in the cave! (thus quoteth Ghallager)

    If you look deeply enough, there is enough evidence to point towards creationism that would equal to or outweigh evolution. Why is it that the people in the Middle East can trace their ancestry back to Abraham, but we in "modern cultures" look at them as if they were a primitive people? They aren't primitive at all. They know more about the history of the world than we do. Geneticists are now saying that there is a 3 in 1billion chance that the mutation of a monkey gene could lead it to evolving into anything else than what it is. The protein DNA strains simply will not function or support the theory that evolution through one species is possible.

    Just a philosophical side-note... If there is a God, a Creator, and he required us to trust ultimately in Him despite the worldy situations around us, then don't you think it would require a little faith to believe in something that you cannot see? My point is this... Just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it isn't there. If God is who the stories tell us, then He's been around a lot longer than we have, and the mysteries are wayyyy beyond our comprehension.

    There's a lot things that I could bring up... Egyptian chariots in the Red Sea... the carcas of a plesiosaur(sp?) pulled up by a Japanese fishing vessel in 1967... ancient Incan and American Indian pottery and cave writings depicting dinosaurs and wooly mammoths fighting... circa 1400's writings from Scotland depicting 8ft dinosaurs fighting near a creek bed, and another attempting to suckle from a cow... Hey, this stuff happened long before Loch Ness! Oh, could it be that Nessie is real? Hmm, brings a lot of questions... What if the earth is only a few thousand years old? What if the protective layer of moisture that scientists now believe existed around the earth allowed mankind to live longer because it blocked all of the harmful UV rays? What if it only takes coal a few years to form - as witnessed with the discovery of a chunk of coal in Ohio which had encased a colonial cooking kettle? What if the great flood wiped out the dinosaurs? What if the great flood caused that one wooly mammoth to freeze to death immediately (by the way, that famous wooly mammoth example is used in the recent movie with Dennis Quaid {what was the name of that dang movie?} - thus explaining why scientists found this wooly mammoth in an upright position with food still undigested in its stomach? The list of unanswerable questions goes on and on... Mathematically, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the earth to be as old as it is based on the human population chart... if you look at the growth chart of the human population and the projected age of mankind or his ancestors in their various forms, it just doesn't line up... it's impossible mathematically.

    Basically, there's wayyyy too many holes in evolution for me to buy it.

    Here's something to cause people to talk... have you ever had a "miracle" happen in your life or the life of someone you know?

  34. #34
    viking_warrior_2k is offline Junior Member
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    Oops, correction in paragraph #4... should read, "...ALMOST wiped out..."

  35. #35
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    Viking all excellent points, many people are too smart for their own **** good that's why they can't wrap their finite brains around it.

  36. #36
    viking_warrior_2k is offline Junior Member
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    Why is it that tiny microbes are like little boat motors with propelling tails that run in a circular motion??? WTF??? How did those little bad boys evolve from being located in fish that decided he wanted to be a land mammal to living inside of us??? Scary... Or, if you choose to think this way... it's complete horse ****. I mean, I've never seen one of those microbes. They must not exist. I've never felt one, never seen one, and never even heard of one until one of these self-righteous preachers - uh, I mean "scientists" - told me that they were there!?! I refuse to believe in them because I can't see it or feel it. It's a hoax, I tell ya!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Why don't you ask an atheist that question? The vast majority of atheists don't rape, ravage, pillage, plunder, steal, or murder. There's probably a reason why.

    -Tock
    Because there is a God.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    The meaning of life is not to please a god. Its to live a happy life and you cant live a happy life beeing a dick towards everyone. That will always backlash at you.
    So its better to be kind and generous to fellow man for your own happiness and satisfaction. Doesnt require a god for people to do good, just simple logic.



    The meaning of life is to know God.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Glad to oblige.


    Simply put,
    Good = that which advances our best interests.
    Evil = that which opposes our best interests.


    Someone who steals our $$$ at gunpoint is evil, because his actions oppose our best interests.
    But you take that same person, and if he gives that $$$ to someone who needs it to feed a starving family, and he becomes Good, at least as far as that family is concerned.

    Ya, Good & Evil are relative, depends on who's best interests are being advanced/opposed.

    Don't need a god to figure that out.

    -Tock



    Logical contradiction. Your making an objective statement about morality, while denying objective moral statements

  40. #40
    books555's Avatar
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    "I want to raise a generation devoid of a concious, empirice, relentless, and cruel."

    Hitler presented copies of Nietzsche's writings to Mussolini. He was a strong follower of Nietzsche.

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