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  1. #1
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    a thought to ponder....

    if god created everything, then who created god ??

  2. #2
    Militia is offline Banned
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    god is a a cause and the universe is the effect, and the cause is not created by anyone , god is absolute

  3. #3
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    i shouldnt dignify that with a response, but...

    nobody created god... he has existed eternally and forever will... it is a concept humans cant understand, so i dont expect anybody to even try... the fact that we cant even grasp eternal is evidence that we were created... we are inferior to some being that understands eternal, and we dont and cant grasp it...

    the idea of god explains this question... that there are things out there that are greater than us... like eternal... also... without god... who created matter? did you think of that??? how did matter just magically appear at some point in history without a god? because the only explanation i can give is god... so if you say that no god exists, you better be able to explain how matter just appeared out of thin air...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite
    i shouldnt dignify that with a response, but...

    nobody created god... he has existed eternally and forever will... it is a concept humans cant understand, so i dont expect anybody to even try... the fact that we cant even grasp eternal is evidence that we were created... we are inferior to some being that understands eternal, and we dont and cant grasp it...

    the idea of god explains this question... that there are things out there that are greater than us... like eternal... also... without god... who created matter? did you think of that??? how did matter just magically appear at some point in history without a god? because the only explanation i can give is god... so if you say that no god exists, you better be able to explain how matter just appeared out of thin air...
    quantum mechanis has proven that energy can be created or well more like borrowed from nothing. A particle can borrow energy from nothing and overcome a obstacle that way and then repay the debt with beeing destroyed. My point is that energy can magicaly appere from nothing and energy can become matter so matter can "magicaly" appere out of nothing. Maby the universe is a gigantic energy loan that is just waiting to be repayed.

    We cant grasp eternity because we cant even define time.

  5. #5
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    then it still leaves the question who created energy?

    And who created particles to borrow that energy.

    At one point in time nothing existed not even energy!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2
    then it still leaves the question who created energy?

    And who created particles to borrow that energy.

    At one point in time nothing existed not even energy!
    My point was that maby there was nothing and then suddenly there was a HUGE enery loan beeing taken out from nothing and that created the big bang....In the future the loan will be repayed and the total sum of energy over time will be zero. Nothing created realy. Just a temporary fluke....

    But yes then the question is before the universe there was no space or time and maby the energy loan atleast need space. Not sure how that works

    Even if we assume god created the universe we are still stuck with the question on who created god. To say that he has existed forever is a vauge statement because before the universe TIME DIDNT EVEN exists. So god had no time to exist in and no space to exist in before he created the universe. We cant even comprehend such a thing. Try to imagine nothingness and I dont mean a vaccum, I mean the total absence of space and time itself. if god exists separated from time and space he is such a different entity from anything we can imagine that its impossible to speculate about"him".

    If god is like the muslims belive a entity of pure energy then he exists in time and space because as far as I know energy needs space and time to exists in and it cant exists outside of space. So then he cant have created the universe because he couldnt exist himself without the universe.

    also cause and effect is a eternal chain. cause->effect->cause->effect. A chain without begining or end. So just stating that god is the first cause doesnt cut it because that isnt a valid statemnt(atleast I dont think so ) Something must have caused every cause.

    I hope this made any sense because it hardly makes sense to me lol. hard to put these thoughts into written words.

  7. #7
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    especialy when english isnt my first language and I often cant find the correct words

  8. #8
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatRite
    i shouldnt dignify that with a response, but....
    With that attitude, maybe you shouldn't have

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2
    then it still leaves the question who created energy?

    And who created particles to borrow that energy.

    At one point in time nothing existed not even energy!
    are u willing to bet your LIFE on that ???

  10. #10
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    saying that god has always exsisted and that he created himself is a difficult concept to understand withing our dimensions and our imagination limits, that is why its much easier to lok at it this way....tell your self that god was created by something else, and that he didnt always exsist..and maybe there is somehing higher and more capable than him...but thats for HIM to worry about!! You on the other hand were created by him he's what u have to worry about!! So worship him and you'll get what he promised his loyal followers who dont break his rules and keep him happy.


    Some people hate this concept but you know what it works fine if u cant get that question or concept of eternal god through your head. For now God is your boss, do as he sais and dont worry about his boss/partner/stockholder/supervisor.

  11. #11
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    I have gotten caught up in this trap before and ended up thinking and debating my way in circles. The greatest minds like Einstein could not overcome this question.

    There is no answer..............that is the answer.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    I have gotten caught up in this trap before and ended up thinking and debating my way in circles. The greatest minds like Einstein could not overcome this question.

    There is no answer..............that is the answer.
    you sir, are indisputably correct!

  13. #13
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    WOW! Do I win a prize?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    WOW! Do I win a prize?
    how bout some respect

  15. #15
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by symatech
    how bout some respect
    Don't go that far, we don't need Vic thinking we like him round here

  16. #16
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    someone posted an article once on another board with a possible theory. ill break it down in the cheap version

    look at your basic molecule. you have a nucleus and electrons spinning around. look at it with current time, it appears one solid object. look at it as time reached infinity, it will actually become one solid object.

    now look at it again, at time 0. think about what you have. a central nucleus, and electrons around in, in orbit. what does this remind you of maybe....the solar system.

    imagine the solar system, is a molecule. imagine that the time condition for its existance, is very very low. not 0, but near it.

    now take the solar system, and increase time to infinity. you have a solid object. do that with all the galaxies in the universe.

    you now have a universe full of solid objects, or a mega solar system if you will, with time near 0.

    now take your mega universe, and increase time to infinity.


    ultimately, the point is, all things, with the right dimention of time (infinity) is 1 solid object, therefore...GOD, and infinite time.


    I like that theory.

  17. #17
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Dammit Billy.........

    I like it.

  18. #18
    Iowa's Avatar
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    The Divine Command Theory states that "God created all that can be created..." and since God is omnipotent, God always was. (Or something of that nature) Remember its just a theory though.

  19. #19
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    god didn't create anything, all you use the same answer, when something cant be explained you say god did it, just like 100s of years ago with rain people thought god caused it to rain, but now we have science telling us when its going to rain and howmuch. All the miracles are being replaced by science.
    If god created every existing thing then he created evil. Why would god created dinosaurs then just destroy them all? And plz dont use the old we cant comprehend gods actions.
    the only valid point above is the one about who created the first particles, electron, atoms ect... - whatever created that is god, until science comes up with an answer.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoneo
    god didn't create anything, all you use the same answer, when something cant be explained you say god did it, just like 100s of years ago with rain people thought god caused it to rain, but now we have science telling us when its going to rain and howmuch. All the miracles are being replaced by science.
    If god created every existing thing then he created evil. Why would god created dinosaurs then just destroy them all? And plz dont use the old we cant comprehend gods actions.
    the only valid point above is the one about who created the first particles, electron, atoms ect... - whatever created that is god, until science comes up with an answer.

    time has been forever. do you not believe in time then???

    btw...i heard somewhere, maybe simpsons..someone asked why god created dinosaurs jsut for them to duy

    the answer is, to give palentologists a job

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
    time has been forever.
    are you sure about that

  22. #22
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    no, its been forever as much as it hasnt been. most western religions accknowledge this, with the beginning of time being..time = 0, or time stopped.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    WOW! Do I win a prize?

    Ya, I'll give ya a prize, allright . . . lol . . .

    I will say, though, that that's the most cogent post you (or anyone) has put up here in quite a while. A round of the clap for you !!!
    -Tock

  24. #24
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    All living things, one would in fact have to define "living" as anything "organic" with "organic" consisting of a combination primarily of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon molecules forming the basis of cell structure and growth. Since these molecules, when free floating in the universe do not "grow", they are therefore by definition not "alive."

    Can anyone calculate for me the extreme amounts of variables and coincidences that the Godless, ignorant universe must have present for the aforementioned 3 molecules to combine using energy to form the basis and sustainment of "life."

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    All living things, one would in fact have to define "living" as anything "organic" with "organic" consisting of a combination primarily of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon molecules forming the basis of cell structure and growth. Since these molecules, when free floating in the universe do not "grow", they are therefore by definition not "alive."

    Can anyone calculate for me the extreme amounts of variables and coincidences that the Godless, ignorant universe must have present for the aforementioned 3 molecules to combine using energy to form the basis and sustainment of "life."

    Probably no one becasue I dont think we know how that works. But then again imagine how ****ing big the universe is and the fact that there probably is countless numbers of parallel universes. No matter how low the odds are for something to happen it will happen given time.
    Just because we dont understand something doesnt mean a god had to make it happen.

  26. #26
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    For life to become present there are various coincidences that need to be created, in perfect sequence, in the exact time, for life to be created, this is my belief. And there has to be an outside factor that facilitates, these series of coincidences. Mainly GOD.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    For life to become present there are various coincidences that need to be created, in perfect sequence, in the exact time, for life to be created, this is my belief. And there has to be an outside factor that facilitates, these series of coincidences. Mainly GOD.
    Dunno why there HAS to be an outside factor to facilite such events.
    Various atoms and molecules have varying levels of attraction for each other, and when ya expose the big "flea market" of stuff floating around in the universe to natural forces like gravity and UV radiation and heat and motion and etc, sooner or later something is gonna happen all on its own. It took a while, but we are what's happened on this planet. No telling what's going on in other parts of the universe, but I'm sure glad we ended up with .mp3 files of Glenn Miller and Artie Shaw to listen to . . .
    -Tock

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    All living things, one would in fact have to define "living" as anything "organic" with "organic" consisting of a combination primarily of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon molecules forming the basis of cell structure and growth. Since these molecules, when free floating in the universe do not "grow", they are therefore by definition not "alive."

    Can anyone calculate for me the extreme amounts of variables and coincidences that the Godless, ignorant universe must have present for the aforementioned 3 molecules to combine using energy to form the basis and sustainment of "life."
    and btw whos to say that there cant exist other kinds of life based on other molecules or life so foreign to us we wouldnt even recognise it as life.

  29. #29
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    Thanks for the kind words I will bow out on this thread while I'm still on top!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    and btw whos to say that there cant exist other kinds of life based on other molecules or life so foreign to us we wouldnt even recognise it as life.
    If you want to twist it that far, we can also argue if we ourselves are living.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    and btw whos to say that there cant exist other kinds of life based on other molecules or life so foreign to us we wouldnt even recognise it as life.

    Excellent point.
    They must have pretty good schools over there in Sweden, eh? Here in Texas, we have college graduates who mistake stars in the night sky for meteorites, and who can't calculate how many 8" squares they can cut from a sheet of plywood. On the other hand, they can make some killer hot sauce . . .
    -Tock

  32. #32
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    The Dinosaurs were on the planet to fertilize the earth for us and give us fossil fuels.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2
    The Dinosaurs were on the planet to fertilize the earth for us and give us fossil fuels.
    i wonder who we are going to be fossil fuels for?

  34. #34
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    The theory still stands how can something be created from nothing?

    There can never be a logical answer for this question.

    Something at least had to create the beginning materials for which everything else was created and if that there lies the answer to a God then why question so much the doctrines that were provided from him.

  35. #35
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    Your English is better than most peoples, even here in the states.

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    especialy when english isnt my first language and I often cant find the correct words

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2
    The theory still stands how can something be created from nothing?

    There can never be a logical answer for this question.
    Ya, people who attribute creation to a god saying the universe could not have come from nothing, still have to resolve where the god came from.
    It's just as logical to suppose that the universe always existed as it is to suppose that a god just always existed. Yet, they foam and froth at the mouth and become rather exised and indignant over such a suggestion . . .
    -Tock

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    If you want to twist it that far, we can also argue if we ourselves are living.

    Is it so hard to imagine sa ya lifeform with such a slow metabolism that it both thinks and acts in matters of years instead of seconds like us. To us that lifeform would look like a immobile object, a stone or something along those lines but it would still be living. We know nothing about life except what we have found here on earth so I think its not wise to claim that there can only be carbon based life. If I remember right silica(I think it was it)based life is almost as probable.

    Also how do we define life I have no clue to be honest

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Excellent point.
    They must have pretty good schools over there in Sweden, eh? Here in Texas, we have college graduates who mistake stars in the night sky for meteorites, and who can't calculate how many 8" squares they can cut from a sheet of plywood. On the other hand, they can make some killer hot sauce . . .
    -Tock

    swedes schools are acctualy famous for beeing very good as far as I know.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by odrorir
    Your English is better than most peoples, even here in the states.
    thanks bro

  40. #40
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    All I can say is... people create religion bcs they are afraid to face the fact that after our time is up, we will not exist anymore. They need to believe that there is another form of existance after death.

    I just prefer not to think about it... if im wrong and there is a god and I end up in eternal ****ation...oh well.

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