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  1. #1
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    Iraqi Women No Better Off Under Occupation: Amnesty

    http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle07.shtml

    LONDON, February 22, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - Nearly two years after the US-led occupation of Iraq, women there are no better off than under the rule of ousted president Saddam Hussein, the human rights group Amnesty International said on Tuesday, February 22.

    In a report entitled “Iraq -- Decades of Suffering,” it said that the systematic repression under Saddam had been replaced by increased murders, and sexual abuse -- including by US forces, Reuters news agency reported.

    Washington promised that the overthrow of Saddam would free the Iraqi people from years of oppression and set them on the road to democracy.

    But Amnesty said post-war insecurity had left women at risk of violence and curtailed their freedoms.

    “The lawlessness and increased killings, abductions and rapes that followed the overthrow of the government of Saddam Hussein have restricted women's freedom of movement and their ability to go to school or to work,” the London-based group said.

    Amnesty also regretted that “honor killings” were still prevailing in Iraqi society.

    “Within their own communities, many women and girls remain at risk of death from male relatives if they are accused of behavior held to have brought dishonor on the family,” Amnesty said.

    Islam is strongly against the man-made concept of “honor killing” as it holds every soul in high esteem and does not allow any transgression upon it.

    It does not allow people to take the law in their own hands and administer justice, because doing so will be leading to chaos and lawlessness.

    Raped by US Forces

    Amnesty said several women detained by US troops had spoken in interviews with them of beatings, threats of rape, humiliating treatment and long periods of solitary confinement.

    “Women have been subjected to sexual threats by members of the US-led forces and some women detained by US forces have been sexually abused, possibly raped,” it added.

    The Pentagon said it had not seen the report, but took any allegations of detainee abuse seriously.

    “We have demonstrated our commitment to ensuring that kind of behavior is identified and dealt with properly,” spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Joe Richard told Reuters.

    An Iraqi woman disclosed her rape ordeal in an interview with the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper last July.

    With tears rolling down her cheeks, she told the paper how she was stripped by her “liberators” of the most precious thing an Arab and Muslim women can have: her virginity.

    Britain’s mass-circulation The Guardian revealed on May 12 that US soldiers in Iraq have sexually humiliated and abused several Iraqi female detainees in Abu Gharib.

    In its May 10-17 issue, the Newsweek said that unreleased Abu Gharib abuse photos “include an American soldier having sex with a female Iraqi detainee and American soldiers watching Iraqis have sex with juveniles.”

    The Iraqi abuse scandal exploded onto the world stage on April 29 after the CBS news network published several shocking photos of Iraqi detainees tortured and sexually abused by US soldiers.

    In a d a m ning report presented to the US administration last February, before the outbreak of the scandal, US Major General Antonio Taguba found numerous “sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses” at the prison complex.

    i guess this is the way we spread freedom in countries

  2. #2
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    What did you expect an overnight transformation? This will take time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB

    i guess this is the way we spread freedom in countries
    This report doesn’t seem to include all Iraqi women; it seems to me that it is based on women who are either being held on suspicions of being involved in terrorist activities, or are in fear for their lives due the “honor killings” that their own families are partaking in.

    If while in the custody of the American forces these women are being raped or beaten, those who are responsible will and should answer for their crimes.

    I do not have a problem if they are isolated, deprived of sleep, or threatened in order to save the lives of their fellow Iraqi’s or American lives.

    I’ll also bet that those Iraqi women who got to vote for the first time ever in the national elections; will argue that they are much happier now that Saddam is gone.

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    Big , I refused to even address those allegations, that's all they are is allegations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    This report doesn’t seem to include all Iraqi women; it seems to me that it is based on women who are either being held on suspicions of being involved in terrorist activities, or are in fear for their lives due the “honor killings” that their own families are partaking in.

    If while in the custody of the American forces these women are being raped or beaten, those who are responsible will and should answer for their crimes.

    I do not have a problem if they are isolated, deprived of sleep, or threatened in order to save the lives of their fellow Iraqi’s or American lives.

    I’ll also bet that those Iraqi women who got to vote for the first time ever in the national elections; will argue that they are much happier now that Saddam is gone.
    so u r saying its okay to sexually assault prisoners ??? whether they r there to escape honor killings or detained for suspicion ???
    Last edited by ZOAIB; 03-04-2005 at 09:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Big , I refused to even address those allegations, that's all they are is allegations.
    well even cnn blew off how USA was treating prisoners over there , so these allegations ahve some backbone to them !

  7. #7
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    aleegations are rumors and gossip until proven, worthless. Prisoner abuse? Gimme a break

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    What did you expect an overnight transformation? This will take time.
    i dont disagree with u there 1vic , but we have to also keep a good image of ourselves over there cause the world isnt blind , we are definately the center of attention , and if we cannot keep our soldiers on a leash , then for sure there will be no one left to respect our authority anymore !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    aleegations are rumors and gossip until proven, worthless. Prisoner abuse? Gimme a break
    so u r saying all those things , the pics , and proof they gave to CNN and soo many soldiers got in trouble with USA for doing so is all just rumors ???

  10. #10
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    Do you expect people who are part of the problem to give us great reviews?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Do you expect people who are part of the problem to give us great reviews?
    i dont disagree there also , but this is happening ! and there is a lot of truth to it ........... if we hump like monkeys here whats stopping a soldier 19-25 yrs of age gettign some action after being away from women for so long ????

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    Did they provide pics of US soldiers naked, mounted on Iraqui women? Picture that prove any injuries were sustained by them? As far as US soldiers, most are honorable , great Americans with morals. This "news story" portrayal is character assisination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Did they provide pics of US soldiers naked, mounted on Iraqui women? Picture that prove any injuries were sustained by them? As far as US soldiers, most are honorable , great Americans with morals. This "news story" portrayal is character assisination.
    no doubt there , just like one bad fish will make the rest of the pond dirty , and that theory applies here very well .................... whether a small allegation or big , nothing comes out of thin air ! there is always some truth to it , whether oen guy did it or 2 ............. if we are wearing the US army logo , d a m n sure who is gonna look bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    so u r saying its okay to sexually assault prisoners ??? whether they r there to escape honor killings or detained for suspicion ???

    No, I am not saying that sexual assault is “ok”, it should be dealt with as an criminal offense.

    Second, I don't think these women are in these prisons to escape "honor killings"

  15. #15
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    sexual assault is only okay if they are really, really, really hot!

    No it's not okay. War is hell we are confusing war with civilized society. Bad things happenn, they are not justified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    sexual assault is only okay if they are really, really, really hot!

    No it's not okay. War is hell we are confusing war with civilized society. Bad things happenn, they are not justified.
    u do know arab women are HOT , under that viel u have no idea what lies beneath ............. ( i am so bad ) ................ but i agree with u both now , WAR itself is evil so evil things will happen when WAR is in the atmosphere !

  17. #17
    Cycleon is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    This is a "news" item - taking cherry picked info from an AI report - and "reported" by islamonline - which makes its credibility somewhere close to nil in my book - the whole tenor of the article is that this is all due to the invasion because Islam could never condone honor killings or rapings, etc.

    bet I could find a lot of info in that report which could make an opposite conclusion

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    This is a "news" item - taking cherry picked info from an AI report - and "reported" by islamonline - which makes its credibility somewhere close to nil in my book -

    Hey, it's my job to attack sources,


    Just ask Causian

  19. #19
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    The war with Iraqi insurgents have just begun, I belive it is going to get must worst. The insurgents have already turned the Shias out to protest against the Wahhabis, which is a first. Soon the protest against Wahhabis will turn against Sunnis.

    And attacks have incresed. For example there are US soldiers in a Balad, Iraq base. They said that after the elections the mortar attacks against their base had reduced by alot, about 10 to 15 mortar attacks a day only.

    Recently they have been getting 70 or more mortar attacks a day.

    Just one small example.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    In its May 10-17 issue, the Newsweek said that unreleased Abu Gharib abuse photos “include an American soldier having sex with a female Iraqi detainee and American soldiers watching Iraqis have sex with juveniles.”
    Is this true?

  21. #21
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    The rape ordeal she suffered at the hands of US soldiers, both males and females, in the notorious Abu Gharib prison will continue to haunt Nadia for the rest of her life.

    Though freed now, she is "imprisoned" in painful memories that left her psychologically and physically scarred, paying the price of the brutality and sadism of her American jailers.

    Nadia, the name given by a freed Iraqi female prisoner to Al-Wasat, a weekly supplement of the respectable London-based Al-Hayat newspaper, felt it incumbent upon herself to speak out and expose the less-talked-about abuse of female prisoners in US-run detention camps across Iraq.

    Her visit to a relative ended up in her detention by American troops, who stormed the home under the preferable excuse of "searching for weapons".

    "I tried in vain to convince the impeded interpreter I was a guest, but I lost consciousness to find myself later in a dingy dark cell all by myself," Nadia recalled.

    With tears rolling down her cheeks, she told the paper how she was stripped by her "liberators" of the most precious thing an Arab and Muslim women can have: Her virginity.

    "A thrill of fear ran through me when I saw US soldiers laughing hysterically with a female solider telling me mockingly in an Arabic accent ‘I never heard about female arms dealer in Iraq’," Nadia said.

    "As I tried hard to explain to her that I was wrongly rounded up, the female soldier started accosting and kicking me with my cries and pleas falling on dead ears."

    She went on: "She gave me a cup of water and no sooner had I started sipping it than I went into a deep trance to find myself later naked and raped."

    ‘Like Animals’

    Only then Nadia realized that hard times and an uncertain fate were lying ahead.

    And days proved her right. The other day, five soldiers fondled and raped her one after another in a distasteful sex orgy on the tunes of culturally offensive heavy metal music.

    "One month later, a soldier showed up and told me in broken Arabic to take a shower. And before finishing my bath, he kicked the door open. I slapped him but he raped me like animals and called two of his colleagues, who forced me to have sex with them for up to 10 times," added Nadia.

    "Four months later, the female soldier came along with four male soldiers with a digital camera. She stripped me naked and started fondling me as if she was a man while her male colleagues broke into laughter and started taking photos.

    "Reluctant as I was, she fired four shots close to my head and threatened to kill me if I resist. Then, four soldiers raped me sadistically and I lost conscience. Later, she forced me to watch a clip of my raping, saying bluntly: ‘Your were born to give us pleasure’."

    Naida was set free from the US hell in Abu Gharib after spending up to six months there.

    The American soldiers dumped her along the highway of Abu Gharib and gave her a meager of 10,000 dinars to "start a new life".

    Too ashamed to return home, she now works as a housemaid for an Iraqi family.

    Britain’s mass-circulation The Guardian revealed on May 12 that US soldiers in Iraq have sexually humiliated and abused several Iraqi female detainees in Abu Gharib.

    In its May 10-17 issue, the Newsweek said that yet-unreleased Abu Gharib abuse photos "include an American soldier having sex with a female Iraqi detainee and American soldiers watching Iraqis have sex with juveniles."

    The Iraqi abuse scandal exploded onto the world stage on April 29 after the CBS news network published several shocking photos of Iraqi detainees tortured and sexually abused by US soldiers.

    In a ****ing report presented to the administration in February, before the outbreak of the scandal, US Major General Antonio Taguba found numerous "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the prison complex.

    http://www.iraq-war.ru/tiki-read_art...rticleId=35651

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    Yada Yada yada.........................nadia would be a corpse if she were treated like that. You think they would let her live after something like that? If it actually happened? PPPfffffffftttttt.

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    Cycleon is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    I would want to see some evidence of that - like the fact that she had been examined by someone credible and that there was repeated vaginal scarring - otherwise her story could be just that, a story..perhaps only partially or not at all true. HOWEVER, if it is even only partly true, I would want to make sure that there was hell to pay for any service men and women who were guilty - and if these mystery pictures actually exist you can bet that the military will be severe for those in them

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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    I would want to see some evidence of that - like the fact that she had been examined by someone credible and that there was repeated vaginal scarring - otherwise her story could be just that, a story..perhaps only partially or not at all true. HOWEVER, if it is even only partly true, I would want to make sure that there was hell to pay for any service men and women who were guilty - and if these mystery pictures actually exist you can bet that the military will be severe for those in them
    everything muslims is uncredible to u guys , and everything USA is uncredible for them , so nobody wins ! ppppffffttttt !

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    Cycleon is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    thats because we actually come out with info that doesnt look good for us - its called a free press - whereas most mulim press has no problem lying their asses off to make up any story they want as long as it serves their interests - can anyone say Baghdad Bob?

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    Zoaib, everything (most everything) in this world is uncredible today. No one wants to believe that their people are capable if these things. Just because someone says something does not make it true, just because it is in print or on the tv doesn't make it so. There is no standard of ethics for media anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Zoaib, everything (most everything) in this world is uncredible today. No one wants to believe that their people are capable if these things. Just because someone says something does not make it true, just because it is in print or on the tv doesn't make it so. There is no standard of ethics for media anymore.
    hence u spoke the truth , agreed

    i can seriously jump on this topic but u know what its hard to admit but seriously in a lot fo muslim countries women are bought n sold and gangsters (supposed muslims) of those countries use rape and torture to get what they want out of someone , so u r right , the world itself have become credible , boy i wanna have a seat right next to u , so we can watch the kingdom come ! its truly very sad , and disheartening , that we as humans have sunk lower than the animals .

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    so here is a more credible link for u guys , i am just posting this because its true that somethign like this has happened , and a freelance reporter can hardly have a bias when somethign is true , this is a report done by a freelance reporter in baltimore , also writing a book on this issue !

    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Rajiva0727.htm

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    Yes Zoaib.........times are troubled and getting worse. As humans we feel we are above what we are doing as a species to each other. I don't feel we are getting more civilized , we are just getting more clever, politically correct and humane at committing atrocities.

    All the while we pat each other on the back and congratulate each other, prideful and boasting, oblivious to to truth.........and to God.

    Mankinds arrogance will be it's downfall, it's ego will bring it to it's knees and it's pride will condemn it.

  30. #30
    Cycleon is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    unfortunately that is not always the case here as far as bias - the person is writing a book - which tells you they are looking for news that will support their thesis.

    But I would like to make see that such things are being looked at in our DOD for those whom we know were guilty of offences - and there certainly are some.

    but while we are at it - I would like to see some introspection in the muslim countries - if they want to look for political rape, torture, and murder they need look no further than their own country

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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    unfortunately that is not always the case here as far as bias - the person is writing a book - which tells you they are looking for news that will support their thesis.

    But I would like to make see that such things are being looked at in our DOD for those whom we know were guilty of offences - and there certainly are some.

    but while we are at it - I would like to see some introspection in the muslim countries - if they want to look for political rape, torture, and murder they need look no further than their own country
    definately true cycleon , but since we are in the spot light , there is more attention diverted to us than anyone else doing far worse than us ........ muslims countries are so hypocratic that i dont wanna even go in the detail , the only good muslims were the ones in the time of our Prophet (pbuh) , where when he migrated from mecca to madeena , due to threats of murder upon himself he took his followers to madeena where the people had already converted to islam , and the men , gave half of their welath to those who came , some gave their wives in marriage the ones that had two (by divorcing one) , they shared there house with the newcommers , the right sense of definition of brotherhood , and that is no more now , muslims worst enemy are muslims .......... and it gets sadder by the day .............

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