Thread: Question for Muslims
03-12-2005, 07:10 PM #1
Question for Muslims
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
03-12-2005, 07:16 PM #2
Sorry about the extra thread.
03-12-2005, 07:18 PM #3Originally Posted by books555
Does man not take heed [from the fact] that We created him [while] before that he was nothing?
03-12-2005, 07:23 PM #4Originally Posted by books555
One is the creation of Adam (the first man) and the other is the creation of the children of Adam. Adam, as shall be seen later, was created from water/dust/clay etc, while his progeny was created from "a drop of semen".
These two creations are actually two distinct stages in the creation of man.
The first man was created from dust etc and later on, his progeny was created from "`alaqa", which developed from "nutfah" (a drop of sperm).
The Qur'an has itself referred to these two distinct stages of creation in Al-Sajadah 32: 7 - 8, where the Qur'an says:
Who made excellent everything that He created. He began the creation of man from clay, then made his offspring from a drop of humble fluid.
Thus, all those verses which refer to "`alaq", "nutfah" and the like are actually referring to the creation of the offspring of Adam, which according to the Qur'an itself was different from the creation of Adam. Therefore the subject matter of these verses, is not in contradiction with that of the others, as the two groups refer to two different things.
Thus, Al-`alaq 96: 1 - 2, Al-Nahl 16: 4 and Al-Qiyamah 75: 37 will have to be removed from the contradicting verses list.
Now, after removing these verses, we are left with the following "contradictory" statements of the Qur'an:
- Man was made from water (21: 30, 24: 45, 25: 54)
- Man was made from dust/soil (3: 59, 30: 20, 35: 11)
- Man was made from sounding [extremely dry] clay from black stinking mud (15: 26)
- Man was raised from the earth (11: 61)
Besides these verses, Al-Saaffaat 37: 11 gives an even different picture, as it says that man was created from such soil that sticks to one's hands, or sticky soil. The verse reads as:
We created them from a sticky soil.
I really do not know what is the contradiction in these verses. Anyone with a literary sense can see that these verses are not contradictory.
If someone says that I made a cake from flour (soil) and then says I made a cake from water (water), and then says I made this cake from a solution of flour and water (mud, sticky soil), and then says that I made this cake from a dried out solution of flour and water (sounding clay from black stinking mud) and then says I brought the cake out from the oven (raised from the earth), a person may say that the statements are contradictory. But it is quite obvious that they are not. These statements inform us of not only the major ingredients of cake (man) but also give us some information regarding the stages from which these ingredients were made to go through for the ultimate production of the cake (man).
03-12-2005, 07:33 PM #5
One Creator or many? The Qur'an uses twice the phrase that Allah is "the best of creators" [23:14, 37:125]. What other creators are in mind? On the other hand, many verses make clear that Allah alone is "the creator of all things" [e.g. 39:62]. There is nothing left for others to be a creator of.
03-12-2005, 07:37 PM #6
Further numerical discrepancies Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)? --- How many gardens are there in paradise? ONE [as stated in 39:73, 41:30, 57:21, 79:41] or MANY [18:31, 22:23, 35:33, 78:32]? --- According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups. --- There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42] Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]. But Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]
03-12-2005, 07:47 PM #7Originally Posted by books555
So, if someone's grandfather were to say "In my day we didn't have running water, rather we had to go down to the stream and fill a bucket" does this mean that there was a SPECIFIC day in his life when he did this and then he didn't do it any more? Should we then ask him "Grandpa, which 'day' was that? Was it the 15th of January 1927, or the 4th of August 1908, etc.?"
Similarly, in the English language people use the word "age" to mean "period of history." For example, they might say: "the Stone Age" or "the Computer Age." However, at times we find people saying: "I waited for you for ages and you did not show up so I left." Does this mean that that person waited for the "Stone Age" to come to an end before leaving, or does it mean that he waited until the "Bronze Age" ended before getting up and leaving? Obviously his words are contradictory, right? It is impossible for him to say "Bronze Age" and then to say "I waited for ages," right?
In each one of these cases we see that the words "age" and "day" were given a meaning appropriate to their context, so in order to be fair we should allow the same flexibility in meaning which we use freely in the English language with their equivalents in the Arabic language.
Now that we see the usage of the words "day" and "age" and how even in the English language they can be used to mean "span of time," now we need to study the verses presented and notice how they too each refer in each case to different contexts and situations. Let us look at each individual context in isolation:
The first one, Al-Hajj(22):47 describes the polytheist's taunting of Muhammad (pbuh) and their demand that he hurry up and bring the torment of hellfire if he is truthful. The verse goes on to describe God's patience in the face of such arrogance and goading and how a "day" with our Lord is like a thousand years with us. In other words, God does not need to be in a hurry to take them in their sins "right now," rather he gives the transgressor more and more rope and more and more chances to repent not needing to follow the human desire of "get revenge NOW or he might get away." For our Lord to wait for a thousand years is like our waiting for one day. He knows that no one shall escape Him no matter how they may delude themselves.
The second verse, Al-Sajdah(32):5 speaks about the decree of our Lord descending to earth and our deeds being raised up to Him through all of the many light-years of distance across the heavens in a period, or distance, which in our estimation is equal to one thousand years, but which takes less than the blink of an eye.
The third and final verse, Al-Maarij(70):4 speaks about the Day of Judgment (as seen in Musnad Ahmed 5642, in the saying of the prophet narrated by ibn Omar) and describes it as "a day the span of which is fifty thousand years." This is part of the torment of the evil and sinful people of earth. They are taken on that day to a long and drawn-out judgment which is in and of itself a horrendous punishment. However, as narrated in Musnad Ahmed (3/75), the prophet (pbuh) informed the believers that that day shall be made lighter upon the believers than a single prayer which they used to pray in this life.
As we can see, the contexts and topics in each one are different. Three different contexts, three different spans of time. Thus, just as in English is it entirely acceptable to refer in one case to 24 hours as a "day" and in another case to refer to many years as a "day," and just as in English it is possible to refer in one case to many centuries as an "age" and in another case to one or two hours as "ages," all depending on the context, similarly, this same flexibility should not be refused the Qur'an simply because the author does not like Muslims.
Now, if the objection is not due to the flexibility of the words "day" and "age" themselves, rather, it is against God having a different criteria and yard stick for "how long" a day should be then we need to realize that the Bible itself quite explicitly endorses the words of God in the Qur'an in this regard. For example, in 2 Peter 3:8 we read:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
So do the verses still contradict one-another?
Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 03-12-2005 at 07:52 PM.
03-12-2005, 07:54 PM #8Originally Posted by books555
03-12-2005, 07:57 PM #9Originally Posted by books555
03-12-2005, 07:58 PM #10Originally Posted by books555
Let us look at Noble Verse 37:125 "'Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,'"
Let us look at Noble Verse 39:62 "Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs."
There is no contradiction in the Noble Verses above.
In Noble Verses 23:14 and 37:125 above, Allah Almighty describes to us that no one in this universe can make a creation better than Allah Almighty's creation. Allah Almighty gave mankind the ability to create. We created cars, airplanes, computers, clothes, etc... In Noble Verse 39:62, tells us that Allah Almighty created everything in this world. When we create a car for instance, we use the metals that Allah Almighty created to create our car. So if it wasn't for Allah Almighty's creation of the metals, then we would not be able to create cars today.
Another point to remember is that, we can only create or be creaters when Allah Almighty wills for us to be creaters. Everything we do or wish to do happens with the permission of Allah Almighty; see 2:148, 2:213, 2:251, 2:253, 2:255, and many other verses were they talk about Allah Almighty's will controling everything in this world.
03-12-2005, 08:00 PM #11
03-12-2005, 08:02 PM #12Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
03-12-2005, 08:03 PM #13
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