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  1. #1
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    To christians, jews, muslims

    Lets say you find the most perfect wife/husband and you get 2 children. EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect except the fact that your wife/husband and your children doesnt share your belife. But in all other ways they are the kindest most caring people in the world.

    because you belive in your religion you know they are doomed to eternal suffering in hell. Would you still think that is fair knowing the people you love will be in hell while you are enjoying heaven. Or would you be upset with god for making such rules

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    oh man!

    pray for them

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    This is the concept that only one religion is true, and all others are false. All religions without exceptions believe without hesitation that they are the true religion, and only they will be welcome at the gates, while all others are turned away.

    The vanity, and intolerance involved in organized religion is exactly what drives me away. Stay true to yourself, be a good person, and treat others with respect, that is the way to get into heaven with all your loved ones.
    Last edited by Will Power; 03-15-2005 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Power
    This is the concept that only one religion is true, and all others are false. All religions without exceptions believe without hesitation that they are the true religion, and only they will be welcome at the gates, while all others are turned away.

    The vanity, and intolerance involved in organized religion is exactly what drives me away.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Lets say you find the most perfect wife/husband and you get 2 children. EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect except the fact that your wife/husband and your children doesnt share your belife. But in all other ways they are the kindest most caring people in the world.

    because you belive in your religion you know they are doomed to eternal suffering in hell. Would you still think that is fair knowing the people you love will be in hell while you are enjoying heaven. Or would you be upset with god for making such rules

    But your sins have made a separation between you and your God," Isaiah 59:2. And, "the wages of sin is death." Rom. 6:23. So, to sin, to break God's law, results in a judgment. The judgment is known as ****ation which is the righteous judgment of God upon the sinner. If God did not judge the sinner, then He is not upholding His holiness.
    Of course, Jesus came to take out place and die for our sins 1 Pet. 2:24. This means that Jesus bore our sin in His body on the cross and supernaturally paid for them. This further means that anyone who trusts in what Jesus did on the cross will have his sins removed; he will be saved from God's future judgment.
    Anyway, answering the question "What is sin?" is best answered by stating that it is breaking God's law. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people are under God's judgment except for those who've trusted in God's provision to escape that judgment which God will carry out.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Power
    This is the concept that only one religion is true, and all others are false. All religions without exceptions believe without hesitation that they are the true religion, and only they will be welcome at the gates, while all others are turned away.

    The vanity, and intolerance involved in organized religion is exactly what drives me away. Stay true to yourself, be a good person, and treat others with respect, that is the way to get into heaven with all your loved ones.


    You cant use your feelings to decide what is true.
    All religions donot believe there religion is the only true one.

  7. #7
    Lobsterman is offline Associate Member
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    listen to Crue oldskool **** and get drunk like I am now

  8. #8
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    But your sins have made a separation between you and your God," Isaiah 59:2. And, "the wages of sin is death." Rom. 6:23. So, to sin, to break God's law, results in a judgment. The judgment is known as ****ation which is the righteous judgment of God upon the sinner. If God did not judge the sinner, then He is not upholding His holiness.
    Of course, Jesus came to take out place and die for our sins 1 Pet. 2:24. This means that Jesus bore our sin in His body on the cross and supernaturally paid for them. This further means that anyone who trusts in what Jesus did on the cross will have his sins removed; he will be saved from God's future judgment.
    Anyway, answering the question "What is sin?" is best answered by stating that it is breaking God's law. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people are under God's judgment except for those who've trusted in God's provision to escape that judgment which God will carry out.

    My point is could you enjoy heaving knowing all your loved ones are burning in agonazing pain forever and ever and ever just because they didnt belive in the same god as you

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    My point is could you enjoy heaving knowing all your loved ones are burning in agonazing pain forever and ever and ever just because they didnt belive in the same god as you

    Believe it or not, I am the only person in my family who has come to Christ. I dont believe it because I like all of it, I believe it because it is true.

  10. #10
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Believe it or not, I am the only person in my family who has come to Christ. I dont believe it because I like all of it, I believe it because it is true.
    I dont doubt your belife. Im just curious if you think you will be able to enjoy heaven knowing everyone you love is gonna suffer for eternity....

  11. #11
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    My fiance and I are going through this exact scenario right now. She thinks I'm gonna burn in hell for eternity b/c I don't have faith. I'm a good person. I can't see how God would turn me away simply b/c I don't have faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Lets say you find the most perfect wife/husband and you get 2 children. EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect except the fact that your wife/husband and your children doesnt share your belife. But in all other ways they are the kindest most caring people in the world.

    because you belive in your religion you know they are doomed to eternal suffering in hell. Would you still think that is fair knowing the people you love will be in hell while you are enjoying heaven. Or would you be upset with god for making such rules
    The only criteria for salvation in Islam is 1) belief in God, 2) belief in the
    Hereafter, and 3) leading a righteous life.

    I wouldnt marry someone that doesnt have the same belief as me though.

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    Assume my wife was not christian and I was. I dont know that my wife will or will not become christian. Perhaps thru my influence and teaching, she'd become a christian. I admit it would be a sad day for me if she were to die and not be a christian. But, to be honest, no matter how much it sucks, that is how it must be. I wouldnt be mad at God. He didnt make the decision. It was my wife's decision to make. It says in the bible families will be torn apart. Brother will be against brother. Some will go to heaven, some to hell. Its a reality we have to live with. my wife is 2nd to me...just as I am 2nd to her. God is numero uno.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    The only criteria for salvation in Islam is 1) belief in God, 2) belief in the
    Hereafter, and 3) leading a righteous life.

    I wouldnt marry someone that doesnt have the same belief as me though.

    Try to picture a scenario where your kids would grow upp and become atheist or deist or buddhist or anything except beliving in the islamic god. Would you enjoy heaven knowing your children is burning in hell even though they are good people, there only flaw beeing not beliving in allah

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Assume my wife was not christian and I was. I dont know that my wife will or will not become christian. Perhaps thru my influence and teaching, she'd become a christian. I admit it would be a sad day for me if she were to die and not be a christian. But, to be honest, no matter how much it sucks, that is how it must be. I wouldnt be mad at God. He didnt make the decision. It was my wife's decision to make. It says in the bible families will be torn apart. Brother will be against brother. Some will go to heaven, some to hell. Its a reality we have to live with. my wife is 2nd to me...just as I am 2nd to her. God is numero uno.

    So you could enjoy heaven even with the knoweledge that the person most dear to you is in hell

    God didnt make the decision but he made the rules...

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    My fiance and I are going through this exact scenario right now. She thinks I'm gonna burn in hell for eternity b/c I don't have faith. I'm a good person. I can't see how God would turn me away simply b/c I don't have faith.
    It doesnt matter...."not by works, but by faith" is what gets you to heaven and accepting Jesus' blood on the cross and him dying for your sins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Lets say you find the most perfect wife/husband and you get 2 children. EVERYTHING is absolutely perfect except the fact that your wife/husband and your children doesnt share your belife. But in all other ways they are the kindest most caring people in the world.

    because you belive in your religion you know they are doomed to eternal suffering in hell. Would you still think that is fair knowing the people you love will be in hell while you are enjoying heaven. Or would you be upset with god for making such rules
    johan we all know u got that SOFTY side , u always ask such CUTE questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Try to picture a scenario where your kids would grow upp and become atheist or deist or buddhist or anything except beliving in the islamic god. Would you enjoy heaven knowing your children is burning in hell even though they are good people, there only flaw beeing not beliving in allah
    everyone is responsible for their choices not matter its your wife or your kids , GOD gave them the same exact brains as myself , and if they dont wanna follow well that there simple CHOICE !

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    johan we all know u got that SOFTY side , u always ask such CUTE questions


    Not trying to pain belivers as cold hearted btw. Might come across that way.

    I just know that me personaly I could not stand such a situation. I would find no comfort in heaven if my loved ones where in hell.

  20. #20
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by XxElitexX
    It doesnt matter...."not by works, but by faith" is what gets you to heaven and accepting Jesus' blood on the cross and him dying for your sins.


    I take some issue with your statement. What about all of the people of the earth who have never even heard of Jesus Christ? Do they get a one way ticket to hell simply because the have not accepted Jesus as their savior? People inhabited this planet for hundreds of thousands of years prior to Jesus even being on earth. All of them in hell to?? Seems like it's probably pretty crowded down their right now huh?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    johan we all know u got that SOFTY side , u always ask such CUTE questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan


    Not trying to pain belivers as cold hearted btw. Might come across that way.

    I just know that me personaly I could not stand such a situation. I would find no comfort in heaven if my loved ones where in hell.
    Again good question. I really dont know the answer. But from my reading, I know that everyone will go to hell for a certain time, even Muslims.

    Everyone does their time for being bad. Like jail, you do your time and go onto heaven. And heaven has like 500 levels.

    So you do your time and go onto a level of heaven.

    Again dont take my word for it, I havent read that much about this topic.

  23. #23
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    Well let's put it in this situation suppose your spouse that you love so much beyond anything commits a very terrible crime all of the sudden like say robbing a bank and killing everyone there including women and childern and he or she doesn't repent and ends up in hell and you are in heaven would you still feel guilty a sin is a sin regardless the idea is to set an example to your spouse on what Christ really did for us and hope and pray to God himself that he will guild him or her to the right path.

    Of course you could eliminate this problem by finding someone with the same beliefs as you,if you believe in Christ then find someone who also believes in Christ,if you beleive in Muslim beliefs then find someone who is Muslim so forth and so on.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    So you could enjoy heaven even with the knoweledge that the person most dear to you is in hell

    God didnt make the decision but he made the rules...
    thats exactly it. He made the rules. i know some will not play by those rules. and also, there wont be any sadness in heaven. i dont know how, but somehow i dont think it will bother me in heaven. either i wont have a recollection of it (doubtful, but a possibility) or the joy of God's love will overcome any sadness of people lost...i dont know. But i dont think there will be anything but happiness in heaven.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdJuicer
    My fiance and I are going through this exact scenario right now. She thinks I'm gonna burn in hell for eternity b/c I don't have faith. I'm a good person. I can't see how God would turn me away simply b/c I don't have faith.
    I used to feel the same way jd. a good friend of mine really offended me one day by saying that exact thing. Not directed at me, but I knew I was in the group of "good people" he said he felt would unfortunatly go to hell. It was then i started really looking into it, with an open mind, reading some books, looking at what the bible said, and my faith grew.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by talltanman


    I take some issue with your statement. What about all of the people of the earth who have never even heard of Jesus Christ? Do they get a one way ticket to hell simply because the have not accepted Jesus as their savior? People inhabited this planet for hundreds of thousands of years prior to Jesus even being on earth. All of them in hell to?? Seems like it's probably pretty crowded down their right now huh?

    You are talking about 2 different groups of people here. those before jesus and those who have no knowledge at all. for those before jesus, they got to heaven by accepting God as he revealed himself. He hadnt revealed himself in Jesus yet, but he had revealed himself.

    2nd, the people who have never heard of jesus or God. This group of people, let me first straight up say, I dont know. I dont think these people go to hell. just like children who dont have the knowledge but die,i dont think they go to hell, but i honestly dont know. BUT for the people who have never heard of jesus, christianity, or the bible, perhaps God HAS revealed himself to them somehow. We would never know. IMO, I dont think they are d*mned because of no opportunities.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Again good question. I really dont know the answer. But from my reading, I know that everyone will go to hell for a certain time, even Muslims.

    Everyone does their time for being bad. Like jail, you do your time and go onto heaven. And heaven has like 500 levels.

    So you do your time and go onto a level of heaven.

    Again dont take my word for it, I havent read that much about this topic.
    That sounds like a fair and resonable approach. This board has realy made me alot more open minded about islam. Previously I thought it was some kind of barbaric bastardized version of christianity. But now after a while on this forum I se its a very sophisticated religion that is realy beautifull in many many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    That sounds like a fair and resonable approach. This board has realy made me alot more open minded about islam. Previously I thought it was some kind of barbaric bastardized version of christianity. But now after a while on this forum I se its a very sophisticated religion that is realy beautifull in many many ways.
    u say such CUTE wordz also , thank you thank you !

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Again good question. I really dont know the answer. But from my reading, I know that everyone will go to hell for a certain time, even Muslims.

    Everyone does their time for being bad. Like jail, you do your time and go onto heaven. And heaven has like 500 levels.

    So you do your time and go onto a level of heaven.

    Again dont take my word for it, I havent read that much about this topic.
    if everyone goes to heaven, then to me there is no heaven. there is no choice to be made. you can live how you want, spend your time in hell, then go to heaven. whats the point? who cares what i do here? doesnt make sense.

    in christianity there is a definate choice. not everyone goes to heaven. to me, to believe that everyone goes to heaven is another way of saying 'live how you want, nothing matters, because in the end, sure you'll go to hell for a period of time, but everyone does, but then you'll be in heaven for eternity. now if you arent really really good, you wont get 20 virgins, but hey, you still get 2'.

    heaven is spending eternity with God. everything else people say heaven is is just worldly desires. i look forward to a life without sin, without worldly desires, with God.

  30. #30
    singern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    You cant use your feelings to decide what is true.
    All religions donot believe there religion is the only true one.

    I disagree.
    I don't believe this to be opinion, but actual religious teachings. Of the major organized religions, being Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all the different flavors within. Each considers itself the one true religion, and considers all others false, infidels, pagans, nonbelievers, and so on....In most cases banning the individual from Heaven, and other holy gifts.

    So as Will did say this is arrogant, vein, and quite intolerant.
    Last edited by singern; 03-16-2005 at 09:57 AM.

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    If my girl isn't there, then it's not heaven.

    ALso, I love how Gallelio was excommunicated (banned from heaven by the Pope) for saying the sun was at the center of the universe. OOps...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    If my girl isn't there, then it's not heaven.

    ALso, I love how Gallelio was excommunicated (banned from heaven by the Pope) for saying the sun was at the center of the universe. OOps...


    Thats the work of man, not the work of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    If my fiancee isn't there, then it's not heaven.

    ALso, I love how Gallelio was excommunicated (banned from heaven by the Pope) for saying the sun was at the center of the universe. OOps...
    Did you know they rescinded the excommunication? I think it was in 1999. It took that long!!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    If my fiancee isn't there, then it's not heaven.
    Would you reconize your fiance? What I am saying is that would we know who are family is? Would we have memories of our worldly lives? Or will it all be erased.

    I dont know the answer to it though.

  35. #35
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    The Quran says everyone sees Hell, muslims or not.

    [19:71] Every single one of you must see it; this is an irrevocable decision of your Lord.

    [19:72] Then we rescue the righteous, and leave the transgressors in it, humiliated.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    if everyone goes to heaven, then to me there is no heaven. there is no choice to be made. you can live how you want, spend your time in hell, then go to heaven. whats the point? who cares what i do here? doesnt make sense.
    I never said I was sure, I could be totally wrong about what I said. This subject is too complex for me to even talk about it. Islamic scholars are the best people to talk about it.

    I really dont know.

    There are scholars from 1000 years ago, to today, that say Hell will eventually be empty. And there are some that say Hell is eternal, its a complex sujbect.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    The only criteria for salvation in Islam is 1) belief in God, 2) belief in the
    Hereafter, and 3) leading a righteous life.

    I wouldnt marry someone that doesnt have the same belief as me though.
    U for got Muhammed Pbuh

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