Thread: Liberalism and socialism
03-17-2005, 09:59 AM #1
Liberalism and socialism
Why do I constantly get the feeling that american right wing thinks liberalism=socialism?
That cant be more wrong. Liberalism wants a free market and less laws. Socialism is the total opposite.
So why on earth does people assume liberals are socialists
03-17-2005, 10:19 AM #2Originally Posted by johan
03-17-2005, 10:36 AM #3Originally Posted by cjp85
Hum liberalism in sweden must be different because they sure as hell dont want higher taxes. Not that I know of atleast
Freedom and responsibility seems to be the 2 most important things in liberalism here. Freedom to do what you choose with your body(legal drugs, roids ect), but also the responsibility to deal with the sideeffects...
03-17-2005, 11:20 AM #4Originally Posted by cjp85
03-17-2005, 11:42 AM #5Originally Posted by BigBoi83
03-17-2005, 11:51 AM #6Originally Posted by johan
03-17-2005, 12:18 PM #7
I hate that socialist belives higher taxes are the solution for everything. In sweden its become a god **** joke. The socialist party wants more and more and more taxes and finaly the people are sic of it so Im looking forward to a right wing goverment in the future
We already have the highest god **** taxes in the entire world right now and still we have crappy health and dental care. Sure I can get surgery for free, but when I have to wait for it for 3 years is it worth it Considering I cant even pay for it myself and get it done quicker if I wanted to
03-17-2005, 01:22 PM #8Originally Posted by cjp85
yeah and the baby thing is also true in canada and i feel that how welfare is givin to people has to be seriously changed
03-17-2005, 01:48 PM #9Originally Posted by BigBoi83
03-17-2005, 02:02 PM #10Originally Posted by Wrathchild
Did you get to go to school in Cuba?
Did you learn to read and write?
03-17-2005, 03:57 PM #11Originally Posted by johan
03-17-2005, 04:03 PM #12Originally Posted by cjp85
03-17-2005, 04:05 PM #13AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
Originally Posted by BigBoi83
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but the point of the social program SHOULD be to educate and assist the person to GET OUT OF THE SITUATION in which they find themselves - what have have here and in the EU is a wealth redistribution program that takes from the productive and wastes it on those who consume
03-17-2005, 04:19 PM #14Originally Posted by CYCLEON
03-17-2005, 05:59 PM #15Originally Posted by BigBoi83
1. How many medical breakthroughs have occured in any country other than the U.S.?
2. Why are there so many more medical advancements in the U.S.?
1. Not nearly as many as in the U.S.
2. The vast majority of these advancememthave been made in the U.S. because U.S. citizens pay higher cost for healthcare.
Higher cost= more money for medical research.
While government payed healthcare sounds like a fabulous idea, in reality future modern medical advancements would simply not occur as oftenwoth government payed healthcare in the U.S. This would be due to the lack of finacial windfall that the medical & pharmacutical industries currently enjoy. While people love to bash the U.S. , without our money the world would in no doubt be worse off without us in such a prominent role.
I am more than willing to listen to any arguement to my theories, however calling bull**** or is not much of an arguement.
03-18-2005, 10:37 AM #16Originally Posted by talltanman
heres a link to check out. Sick kids in toronto as well as afew others are known world wide for medical breakthroughs.
03-18-2005, 09:02 PM #17
Sorry guys, but socialism is and forever will be a failed concept for one reason: The free rider problem. The sad fact of human nature is that if we can get away with being lazy, enough people will be lazy to collapse the system. I am so sick of the class war here in the US I would leave if it wasn't for the fact than any other country I would want to live in has a terrible "right to bear arms" policy.
The problem is that modern liberals fall in love with how wonderful socialism sounds and are convinced, in their own hubris, that the only reason it hasn't worked before is because the wrong people were running it-but of course they could handle it.
Face the facts, socialism encourages mediocrity. "It all pays the same". Name one great discovery to come out of the USSR or Red China. For god's sake, their military doctrine consists of "throw as many untrained, poorly equipped bastards at them until the enemy runs out of ammo". As Churchill said, " Capitalism is the worst form of government, except for every other form of government".
03-19-2005, 06:05 AM #18Originally Posted by Sapper
But one have to admit the USSR was VERY good on several things. Military technology they where close and ahead in many fields to the nato countries and I dont even have to mention sports science. USSR was lightyears ahead of any other country in the science of building strenght for instance.
Dont forget what country was first in space either....
03-19-2005, 06:09 AM #19Originally Posted by johan
the polititians that tote "Liberal " views all want more government to assure the distribution of wealth... now that may not seem like a bad idea... however,
Too many people 1st hand know the waste that occures with government employees, theft, and abuse of funds..
so no... if a man is not willing to work... he should not be paid.. thus he has no right to gain from the efforts of others..The answer to your every question
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03-19-2005, 06:44 AM #20
what is libertarian
03-19-2005, 12:20 PM #21
Excuse me johan but thats BS. In sweden there are lots of private hospitals...if you live in stockholm there is sophiahemmet and several others and most of the healthcare has already been privatized. Both my kids have been born in private hospitals and i only go to private dental and doctors...here in sweden beeing socialist isnt a insult its what most people are....i guess im a liberallefty...i dont want laws that abuse me, but i need the socialsecurity for my kids and my oldfolks...i had some trouble about 10years ago with drugs and when i was ready to deal with it the socialsecurity helped me out and im very happy that is possible...when you talk about them crackheads it makes me very sorry to hear you generalize like that...i was one of them and i dont blame anything or anyone for it but im a humanbeeing not a drugadict...taking heroin was my own choice the first time but after that someone else made my decisions(adiction)...i finally said enough is enough and when for help and i have been clean since...now im studying to be a dentist and all is good i have wife and 2 kids...if it wasnt for that socialprogramms i dont know where i would have been...so when you talk about them junkies there are parents and lots of people who care about them and whant to get them help, adn with that f*ckin rightwing thinking you are only responsible to yourself is a lot of BS...we all need help sometimes, little or much, from friends or from programms and to deny that to a fellow humanbeeing is just discusting
03-19-2005, 02:33 PM #22
Indica I must have had the wrong picture then. I only thought there was privat "vårdcentraler" not hospitals.
As I see it if we legalise drugs and then tax them then the money earn will be enough to rebah addicts and I dont think more will use(just look at holland, no more druggies since they legalised pot). Also I dont know where i talked disrespectfull about drugusers either(that would be bull**** since I meddle with them myself every now and then)? never used the term crackhead
My oppinion is that all shouldnt suffer(by laws) just because a few cant handle it. I dont mean that as a bash on you at all bro. I realise its not any kind of "willpower" some just have it in them to become addicts.
I just dont want any laws that restrict what I do with my body. If I want to snort a line of speed instead of drink when I go out clubbing then that should be my choise. If I want to hit the bong instead of drink a beer to relax then that should be my choise.
Higher taxes is no solution for our countrie since the socialdemocrats obviosuly cant even use the money they have right not. Giving people oppertunity to be lasy(sjukskrivna ect)wont do this country any good. Sure many are in need of that, but I se with my own yes all the people taking advantage of the system and I sure as hell dont want to pay for those peoples living when they are perfectly able to work.
Instead put the money into the healtcare so they can employ more people, lessen the burden on the ones working there and by those means make more people able to work again without getting burned out. That will give more taxpayers and we can lower taxes. We are burrying ourself right now and its disgusting. Im loking forward to se what the right wing parties can do for our countrie. Folkpartiet all the way only ones with the balls to say what needs to be said
03-20-2005, 03:53 AM #23
I agree with you johan with all that you say...the crackhead bizz was not you who brought up, but i answered it in the same post so it may have seem as i was pointing at you(sry). the only thing i didnt agree with you was the stuff about no private alternatives in medicalcare.
Im also leaning towards folkpartiet they where the only ones who didnt hook up on the racialisttrain in sweden in the 90s. (står om dem i lasermannenboken).
i was just discusted by the look at drugaddicts as they are not humanbeeings but just some animals that pop out kids to get welfare...they are not...they are people who need help and should get it when they are ready for it.
03-23-2005, 10:29 PM #24Originally Posted by johan
The term liberal once meant that group of thought that promotes natural law and individual liberty. At the dawn of America, the Founding Brothers created a government that was built upon a liberal framework-the Constitution of the United States of America. Conteporary Libertarians and Republicans of the Libertarian school of thought term themselves to be classical liberals because their political ideology is essentialy the same as that of the founding brothers and of the literal word of the Contstitution. I think liberal as it is presently used in America has much to do with the civil rights, anti-Vietnam, women's equality, and most prominently, Socialist movements.
If you would like more info about Libertarian ideas and government, I have scores and I'd be happy to talk about it.
Last edited by inheritmylife; 03-25-2005 at 01:26 AM.
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