03-21-2005, 05:20 PM #1
Why karma doesn't exist. (lengthy read..but paragraphed)
I have noticed for a few years on this site (and in all manner of conversation with various peoples) that karma is often given as a reason, or a consequence of one’s actions. It is all too often that I hear people say “you shouldn’t do this because karma will come back to you.” This is a fallacy which I hope to clarify for you all now. Karma does not exist.
I’m sure everybody on this board has heard at least one time in their lives “the world isn’t fair.” That isn’t really disputable I think everybody realizes by now that we live in an unfair world. Since that’s the way it is all we can do is adjust. If we are willing to recognize that this life and world is ‘unfair’ then why do we waste time with pipe dreams like karma? Sometimes in this life people get what is coming to them, many times they do not.
Now I am going to take a small digression here and talk about the afterlife. Many people will tell you that they get what is coming to them in the next life. Heaven or hell, salvation or ****ation, it’s all a dream. Why is it a dream? Because nobody, yes that includes you, has any idea of what happens after we die. Of course, everybody has some kind of belief, but beliefs are a far cry from reality. When it comes down to it, think about what you actually know in life. That is, what you can prove. Nobody here can prove to me what happens when you die. Period. Nobody here can prove to me that God exists, or doesn’t exist. Nobody can prove that there is even an afterlife at all. Perhaps this is all we get, and why not? It’s just as plausible to say that this life is all we have as to say that there is an afterlife. Now I don’t really see how this is debatable, the only arguments you can throw at me are a few old books and perhaps some unexplained phenomena. But there is no concrete proof that in the afterlife, karma is served.
Moving right along, I’m going to discuss a few examples of where karma is brought into play. First off is in many of the relationship threads. People talk about cheating or lying etc etc and all too often there will be a reply to the nature of “karma is a bitch” or “karma will come back and bite them in the ass.” No my friends, I’m sorry, but it’s not true. Let’s look at an example where karma has supposedly been served, or fulfilled, or however you’d like me to say it. Ok, Jane Doe cheats on her boyfriend, eventually they break up, Jane hooks up with a new man, and he cheats on her. Karma is served. Or is it? Now I can see how one would argue that in this situation, Jane got what she deserved, and hence, karma or the notion of it is fulfilled. However, when you look at what really happened, all this scenario consisted of were people making decisions and acting on them. Jane chooses to cheat, and then she gets burned in a similar manner. She got burned because her new man chose the same course that Jane had previously taken. In this case, he is the personification of karma. Now, what about the people who cheat yet never get cheated on themselves? I know a few, perhaps some of you do as well. Why is karma not served here? Because it is an unfair world that’s why! There was a probability that Jane would meet a man who has no reservations about cheating. In this case she did. But she could just have easily met a faithful man (assuming cheaters and non-cheaters are in equal number…which I doubt they are). Jane got unlucky. Why? Because life is unfair!
Are we really to assume that karma is an ever-present form of justice when it is all too often passed over, or perhaps when it works in some cases but not in others (heh, like our justice system). Now let me argue a small bit of semantics. It is possible to reason that karma is not really an essence, but rather the name given to ‘justice’ when it is truly served. I’m fine with that, but I’d never use it that way personally. I mean, if that were the case, then why make up a word for it at all? Why not just continue calling it justice?
Another case I see karma a lot is in the political forum. I recall a conversation with militaguy (I think) where we were discussing suicide bombers, school shooters etc, basically, people who do bad things. I made a point about the school shooting/hostage taking in Russia. I was asking something to the nature of “how can justice, or karma, be served to people who kill kids, then kill themselves (or are killed but willing and wanting to die). The response I received was something like “god will punish them” or “they will burn in hell.” Well, something to that effect. I said what if there really is no god? And the reply was “then how could justice be served?” I said exactly!!! The world is unfair, there are going to be times when justice is not served. That’s just the way it is. We can deny it, or we can adapt. Denying is the same thing as death to me, because when you live in denial you aren’t really living at all.
Perhaps some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that people who really hurt them, may never get what they deserve. I know I struggled with that for awhile, but then I realized nothing happens in this life unless you make it happen. If you wait around for karma to save your life or honor, you will wait until you rot. Just like there are dreamers and there are do-ers. What we get out of this life is up to us. Karma is just a dream. A handle for people who haven’t got any handles at all. In that sense it may not be a terrible thing, but those are only temporary handles on life. You can’t live with illusions your whole life.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
03-22-2005, 06:18 AM #2
Well my oppinion is that people that are ****heads usualy gets **** back because if you treat enough people like **** someone will get you back. No need for paranormal karma explenations. Its pretty obvious. If you treat everyone with kidness and respect then 9/10 times you will get the same back.
03-22-2005, 06:23 AM #3
nah, karma doesn t have to pay back in the same matter. it could be anything else...so if somebody cheats all the time on his gf it doesn t necessarliy mean that he will be cheated on someday. may be he gets cancer who knows...
03-22-2005, 07:59 AM #4
Kharma is not mystical. It's as simple as gravity. So long as you exist on something other than yourself that has a center of gravity (the earth) -- there will be an equal and opposite reaction for every action you take. Simple science. Obviously it's not just a physical law.
Everything in the universe creates that which is like it's self. You send out bad deeds, and they will return to you. You send out good deeds, and surely as gravity, they will be back as well. It's as percise as mathematics and cause = effect.
03-23-2005, 06:14 PM #5Originally Posted by johan
Originally Posted by ***xxx***
Originally Posted by A_Pro
So you are saying karma is a force then. If all deeds have equal and opposite reactions then how do explain my still born brother whom I mentioned above? He never had the chance to do bad deeds, but bad things happened to him before he even breathed fresh air. What about suicide bombers who kill innocent women and children as well as themselves. They take themselves out of the equation before karma returns to them.
If you consider karma as a physical law of nature, it must account for all observable evidence...that is simple science.
03-23-2005, 07:39 PM #6Originally Posted by A_Pro
Yes, but ''cause and effect" does not necessarily lead to your greater good, even if your actions are good and correct.
Reincarnation/Karma leads to a infinite regress, which causes mathematical contradictions.
03-23-2005, 07:48 PM #7
Funny, I've been thinking about Karma lately and just came upon this thread. Interesting.
03-23-2005, 08:45 PM #8Originally Posted by The Massacre
just trying to keep the discussion going
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