03-22-2005, 11:58 AM #1
Does americans aggre with these things bush did
Im thinking about the 2 major things I think is bull****(and that does have a effect on me so I can critise it).
One is that he pulled out of the kyoto deal/aggrement whatever it was called about cutting down polution. Since america is the number one country in the world when it comes to pollution I think its a big deal for the entire world. We have polluted the world now for alot of years. Now we need to do everything we can to cut down our pollution in atleast the same rate as the developing countries increase there pollution. Doesnt matter if it hurts the economy....What good is money if the air is toxic.
The other is his stop on steem cell research. That will also effect a big chunk of the world since alot of the research was done in america, but I guess it wont matter when all the pharm companies does it in europe instead.
For the ones that voted bush. Did you aggre with these 2 things
Dont involve iraq or any other decision he has made in this thread. Just want your oppinions on those 2 things since I realy dont know that much about either issue(or the reason the republicans made those descisions).
03-22-2005, 11:59 AM #2
I voted for the other guy.
03-22-2005, 11:59 AM #3
btw this is not nitpicking, bashing or bull****ting and Im not on any anti american rant. I just cant even in my wildest imagination understand the reasoning behind those 2 decisions.
I dont se how a "good christian" can be a part of pushing back things that will aid the enviorment.
03-22-2005, 12:01 PM #4
Also I meant to direct the thread towards those that did vote for bush
03-22-2005, 12:04 PM #5
Kyoto is a load of crap and would cripple our economy, why not focus on the third world countries spewing out serious crap with absolutely no pollution or emission standards in place, and focus on the ones who do that don't enforce them. Our E.P.A. is tough as nails. Once the rest of the world catches up to current standards then I say we should proceed.
Stem cell research , the fear is that it would lead to bigger and worse things. Like cloning humans and harvesting them like crops for their organs. Sounds far fetched but it could happen. There are varying degrees of this research, some of which I approve of.
03-22-2005, 12:20 PM #6
The Kioto treaty is a wonderful idea in theory, if it applys equally to all nations, and is implemented by all nations. Otherwise its a recipe for American fiscal disaster. I agree with the president on this.
Stem cell research is another story, I am a firm beleiver in its importance, but Bush chose the path of his Christian faith which is obviously against such research. I disagree with the president on this.
God bless the Unioted States of America.
03-22-2005, 12:31 PM #7Originally Posted by 1victor
The thing is we had our chanse to develop through poluting ways. Are we now suposed to push back developing countries and point fingers on them for doing what we once did? Is current economy more important then to make sure that your grandchildren will be able to live in a world with clean oceans and clean air?
Also answere this honestly. Do you think the fact that the current goverment has alot of ties with the oil industri might have effected the decision
How can we demand that developing countries make changes that hurt there economis when we arent willing to do the same They are ALOT more dependant on those polluting industries while we for higher cost can use clean alternatives.
What is wrong with cloning humans? Incase we for instance clone them without brains and then harvest the bodies. I se no wrong in that. But I dont think that is a likely scenario. I think it would be easier to grow singel organs instead of whole bodies. There would be no need to clone a entire body.
Every field of science had its drawbacks. We cant get the good without the bad. Someone somewhere will always find a way to take advantage of science in hideous ways. But that isnt a reason to stand in the way of science.
03-22-2005, 12:32 PM #8
I realy do use the unsure smily alot
03-22-2005, 12:37 PM #9
No I don't think oil was a reason for the decision. I have read in National Geographic for example about the conditions in Mexico (pollution) and other places. It is beyond comprehension. Yes we all need to be held to the same standards throughout the world, this includes third world nations
We have made changes and there are standards in place, we can certainly ask other countries third world or not to have standards. Let's focus on the rest of the developing nations and getting them current, they are responsible for much of the pollution.
03-22-2005, 12:48 PM #10Originally Posted by 1victor
Its our DUTY to lead the way. We cant use the fact that third world countries doesnt straighen upp as a excuse to pollute more ourself. We can ask them to have standards. But how easy it is for them to live upp to those standards when they are in the begining of development?
I say lets focus on ourself and then spread the technology to the rest of the world.
If the us goverment did put like 100 billion into altenate fuel research(and the rest of the developed countries dedicating sums equal compered to BNP) that would pay off in the long run. It would hurt us you right now for sure. But in 20 years it would be seen as the most important and benificial descision ever made
03-22-2005, 12:54 PM #11
Johan, philosophically I agree, practically I cannot. I can't wait for alternate fuel sources, you have no idea. The wealthy oil people won't let that happen until they have bled us all dry.
03-22-2005, 12:57 PM #12Originally Posted by 1victor
I guess a vote for any other then democrat or republican is considered a waste. But someday the people must wake upp??
Its sad that politicians just think for the period they are elected. They only think 4 years ahead and not one singel day longer. They only care about the imidet future.
03-22-2005, 01:03 PM #13
Nice thread johan!
03-22-2005, 01:19 PM #14
Johan, Oil is everywhere, it was there before our president, perhaps its more evident now because of his ties. We are ALL mere pawns in the workings of the world, I mean ALL of us.
03-22-2005, 01:23 PM #15Originally Posted by 1victor
Here a companie cant fund a political campaign. Not as far as I know atleast. Sure they can bribe the **** out of politicians. But a politician/party doesnt HAVE TO be in the companies pocket to win a election.
03-22-2005, 01:25 PM #16
Johan, this world is ruled by people that we don't even realize are running the show, behind the scenes, politicians are front men .
03-22-2005, 01:28 PM #17Originally Posted by 1victor
If you mean rich men are pulling the strings then I aggre to some extent. But there is always room for change. Imagine if a man with the charisma of hitler but with good intentions came about in the usa and got a big following. Events like those can change history no matter how hard the guys behind the scenes try to prevent it.
03-22-2005, 08:10 PM #18
I think the Kyoto treaty was BS: China refused to sign, also, and the fact of the matter is that the treaty set an overall level, which is easy for all the smaller countries to sign in under, but much more difficult for a larger, more developed country to bring ALL its businesses in line with($$$$$). Not too hard for a country like Japan to federally fund the mandated Sulfer Dioxide scrubbers, but in a country as big as the US, with that many smokestacks, federal funding is an impossibility, and forcing companies to comply or be shut down by the arbitrary compliance date will screw our economy. But you won't hear that coming out of the mouths of liberals and enviro****s.
That said, America is making many great strides toward pollution cleanup for one simple reason: It's good business sense. PR, baby. "We're Dupont, and we're helping save the Earth, one factory at a time". Capitalism wins again.
As for stem cell research, I don't think Federal funding should go to it, for one simple reason: Capitalism. If there's money to be made from stem cells, you can bet your sweet asses that companies are going to spend the money to research it. To me, those frozen fetuses are just rotten popsicles, I couldn't care less what they do with them. Make dog food.
03-23-2005, 12:40 AM #19
The Kyoto Accord is not a wonderful idea, not even in theory. It is quite possibly the grandaddy of all turds. The entire thing is essentially an income redistribution scheme and a complicated, unenforceable one at that.
Originally Posted by singern
03-23-2005, 12:44 AM #20Originally Posted by 1victor
03-23-2005, 02:16 AM #21Originally Posted by johan
I tell you what, you go ahead & have your hydrogen powered car. When it develops a leak & goes up like the "Hndonberg" (? spelling) don't come crying to me. You do realize that hydrogen at the levels needed for fuel cells spontaneously combusts when it comes in contact with the atmosphere.
Now I am certainly biased since I work in the petrochemical industry, but people jsut talk about alternative sources of enerjy like they are just everywhere. I am sorry. People in the U.S. are not going to drive dinky little cars around that can't pull loads we use in everyday life. ( trailers, boats, etc...)
Instead of all of this alternative fuel sources why don't we lean on the automative industry to come up with more fuel efficient vehicles while maintaing current horse power levels.
03-23-2005, 02:43 AM #22Originally Posted by talltanman
03-23-2005, 05:45 AM #23Originally Posted by talltanman
Also hydrogen fuel cells has just as much potential to be jus as powerfull as gasoline engines. We cant be dependant on gasoline, you do know the supply of gasoline is limited right What do you think will happen in 40-50 years when we run out of it and have no alternative.
03-23-2005, 05:47 AM #24
Im glad nordic countries is leading the way in hydrogen fuel cell research. Funny that norway that is a oil producing country is making the biggest effort if I remember right.
03-23-2005, 06:04 AM #25Originally Posted by johan
energywise the american way of life is nothing but a big mistake. 5 % of the worlds population wasting 45 % of the world energy ressources...nuff said.
03-23-2005, 07:23 AM #26
Loz..................I feel warm and fuzzy, I think that may be your first compliment to me.
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