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  1. #1
    books555's Avatar
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    My Response on the trinity.

    Augustine: ''This trinity is one God. And, although it is a trinity, it is nonetheless. For, we do not say that the nature of this good is simple because the father alone shares in it, or the son alone, or the holy spirite alone.
    They (the angels) know this word and the father their holy spirit, understanding that this trinity is indivisible and that each of the persons is substantial, although there are not three Gods but only one."


    -The Hebrew word for one (echad) used of God can and does mean "many in one". For example Gen 2:24 refers to male and female as one (echad) flesh. At best this is an implication of the trinity, not affirming Polytheism.

    -Three persons one God.
    -God is one essence (nature). THis is not a contradiction, because affirm that there is three persons, yet only one person or three natures, but only one nature.
    -THe law of non contradiction mandates that for two propositions to be contradictory they must both affirm and deny something of
    (1) the same thing;
    (2) at the same time, and;
    (3) in the same sense (in the same relationship)
    this is not the case in affirming,
    (1)God is one and only on in relation to His essencse;
    (2)God is more than one (three) in relation to his persons
    -These are not different senses or relations. Therefor the trinity is not contradictory.
    -While the trinity may go beyond reason, it does not go against reason. It is beyond finite ability to comprehend, but it is not beyound finite ability to apprehend the truthful (noncontradictory) nature of both premises.

    I qouted from Geisler above.

    -If need be I can go into scriptural evidence.

  2. #2
    Pale Horse's Avatar
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    Books I admire your conviction brother!

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    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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  4. #4
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    aXE you ball buster we all know Jesus is not considered God but part of the trinity

  5. #5
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    Used to be that you could get hanged for denying the Trinity. By Christians.
    --Tock

  6. #6
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    aXE you ball buster we all know Jesus is not considered God but part of the trinity
    What does that mean?!?!?! They are one, but they aren't one? That's all I;m hearing from you guys, conflicting reports.

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    Tock...........you must have some sort of anti-religious radar

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    it means you are breaking my balls

  9. #9
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Used to be that you could get hanged for denying the Trinity. By Christians.
    --Tock
    By "supposed" christians. I think that in itself is a testament as to whether they were true christians or not.

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    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    it means you are breaking my balls
    Good. I that's what I was trying to do

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Tock...........you must have some sort of anti-religious radar
    Ya, and fundamentalist Christians have an anti-gay anti-Tock radar too . . .

    -Tock

  12. #12
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    I hope you don't mean ME?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by aXe Leatherdaddy

    As God Jesus was Omniscient, as man He was is limited in knowledge

    Jesus As God
    -Unlimited in knowledge
    -No growth in Knowledge
    -Knew the time of his coming

    Jesus as man
    -Limited in knowledge
    -Growth in knowledge
    -Did not know the time of his coming

    Remeber, Jesus only claimed to know what his Father had revealed to him.

    Christ can still be fully God and Fully Human.

    Christ had to lay aside omniscience in order to be "truly" human. Note, he did not lose omnisience.

    -To sum up, One and same person in the sense of an "I" or "who" can have two different natures through which it operates.

  14. #14
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Nope, not buying it, sorry

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    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Agree to disagree

  16. #16
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    Oh rats, I thought I scrambeled Tocks radar.

  17. #17
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    -Unity in Diversity in the "effect" (universe), requires unity in diversity in the "cause" (God).

    -If God is "one" being and all loving, who was He loving before he created life. Only the Judeo Christian world view can make sense of this philisophical problem. You have fellowship in the trinity existing in infinity.

  18. #18
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    I look at it this way.......Jesus is the mediator......intermediate.......He was fully man.......but full of the true Spirit (God is Spirit).....but that didn't happen until his Baptism........now at His death......He was then married to His Spirit at the resurrection......the male aspect and female became one. He is the last Adam....therefore he was a man......indwelled by the Angel of the Lord(YHWH)(the angel of the Lord is the WORD......(and the word became flesh)......
    who became the firstfruits......acceptable to G-D......therefore G-D GAVE HIM HIS NAME.......Jesus became one with G-d when He sat at the right hand of God.......just as TRUE believers will be given G-d's name first......then eventually G-d will be ALL IN ALL........what went out comes back.

    The trinity is an offshoot of Greek philosophy which requires perfection or eternity to be unchanging.......the universe is constantly changing

  19. #19
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    My question of why God knows the time of the end but the son doesn't still is not answered!!!

  20. #20
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    Interesting badger, but an entity cannot become infinite (God) because the infinite does not have a beginning. A entity must already be God, or it will never be God. I hope you guys understand that, Its wording is little confusing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aXe Leatherdaddy
    My question of why God knows the time of the end but the son doesn't still is not answered!!!


    Jesus was limited in order to be fully human. A omniscient being would not be able to experience being fully human.

  22. #22
    KGBnine is offline Anabolic Member
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    Are you trying to say he was limited @ the time he was a human, or is still limited?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Interesting badger, but an entity cannot become infinite (God) because the infinite does not have a beginning. A entity must already be God, or it will never be God. I hope you guys understand that, Its wording is little confusing.
    Incorrect.....that's why G-d gave Jesus His NAME......you're getting screwed up by the Greeks......how in the world can G-d give man life eternal??.....By giving man G-d's NAME ......man goes from death to life.....through the model or forerunner the last Adam Jesus who is now given God's NAME. In that fashion and the reconciliation of ALL creation to Himself G-d BECOMES ALL in ALL........the very name of G-d in Hebrew can be translated "the one who is becoming"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by aXe Leatherdaddy
    Are you trying to say he was limited @ the time he was a human, or is still limited?
    Limited then......but not now. Trinitarians ignore the time factor......G-d follows a pattern of time also........worked six days.....will rest in the seventh(the millenium).......

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    Badger,

    will you marry me if I live long enough??????/

    I'm starting to feel very strange about agreeing with you......

  26. #26
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    Mondo...about time you got back.......jerk......missed your sorry ass

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aXe Leatherdaddy
    Are you trying to say he was limited @ the time he was a human, or is still limited?


    Limited only when human.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Limited then......but not now. Trinitarians ignore the time factor......G-d follows a pattern of time also........worked six days.....will rest in the seventh(the millenium).......
    That's what I thought. So if he is not limited now, he WOULD know the time of the end.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Limited then......but not now. Trinitarians ignore the time factor......G-d follows a pattern of time also........worked six days.....will rest in the seventh(the millenium).......

    God is not bound by time. God uses figurative language. God entered time.

  30. #30
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    Time itself was created in Gods creation. Scientific theories support this. It is logically impossible to have infinite amount of time. Remember, God is outside of time, it is not illogical that God could enter time.

  31. #31
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aXe Leatherdaddy
    That's what I thought. So if he is not limited now, he WOULD know the time of the end.
    That's what I think....the verse you quoted in matthew was during his days as a man......then He didn't know......NOW He does.
    Can't ignore time in the workings of G-d. Look at the difference in the way G-d dealt with man in the OT compared to the new......I mean we'd all be stoned to death by now if we tried to keep the law. Even though fundamentalists would like to stone Tock right now.......but they let adultery among republicans slide.

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    Badger,

    Don't you read???

    Check the Forum thread labeled Heart Attack you moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol

  33. #33
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    Tocks alright, I am sure he would stone me first.

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    That's because us Republicans need adultery to sooth ourselves of not giving the democratic welfare folks all of our money. SO we have exctasy parties with ourselves for penitence.

    G-d is either all, or he is nothing. What is it to be????

  35. #35
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    Holy Crap MONDO.......I'm SORRY......I don't even like to read about heart attacks......I skipped right over it......scares me too much........what you have to have?? stents or bypass surgery??

  36. #36
    O.fO.shO is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Augustine: ''This trinity is one God. And, although it is a trinity, it is nonetheless. For, we do not say that the nature of this good is simple because the father alone shares in it, or the son alone, or the holy spirite alone.
    They (the angels) know this word and the father their holy spirit, understanding that this trinity is indivisible and that each of the persons is substantial, although there are not three Gods but only one."


    -The Hebrew word for one (echad) used of God can and does mean "many in one". For example Gen 2:24 refers to male and female as one (echad) flesh. At best this is an implication of the trinity, not affirming Polytheism.

    -Three persons one God.
    -God is one essence (nature). THis is not a contradiction, because affirm that there is three persons, yet only one person or three natures, but only one nature.
    -THe law of non contradiction mandates that for two propositions to be contradictory they must both affirm and deny something of
    (1) the same thing;
    (2) at the same time, and;
    (3) in the same sense (in the same relationship)
    this is not the case in affirming,
    (1)God is one and only on in relation to His essencse;
    (2)God is more than one (three) in relation to his persons
    -These are not different senses or relations. Therefor the trinity is not contradictory.
    -While the trinity may go beyond reason, it does not go against reason. It is beyond finite ability to comprehend, but it is not beyound finite ability to apprehend the truthful (noncontradictory) nature of both premises.

    I qouted from Geisler above.

    -If need be I can go into scriptural evidence.
    Id like to see some scriptual evidence . Like cyclone said....nowhere in the bible is it ever mentioned . I believe i read it was conjured up in the 4th century .

    If there is no proof...it is a theroy .

    Although i believe there is a ton of proof agianst it .

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMondodondo
    That's because us Republicans need adultery to sooth ourselves of not giving the democratic welfare folks all of our money. SO we have exctasy parties with ourselves for penitence.

    G-d is either all, or he is nothing. What is it to be????

    What do you think?? You were looking death in the eyes.....what's it like?

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    G-d is all in my world. I have been to he11. I live now for altruism.

    I made my peace with G-d while I was laying there. I felt relieved. Call it what you want, I don't care, but the spirit carried me through. I hate organized religion. G-d cares that I go to your church or your Temple to worship???? G-d is either in your heart and soul or not. Live as he would have you live and all is well. I also am more old testament than anything. An eye for an eye and all that.

    Besides that the reaper came and saw who it was and ran like the little sissy he is.

    Mondo

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.fO.shO
    Id like to see some scriptual evidence . Like cyclone said....nowhere in the bible is it ever mentioned . I believe i read it was conjured up in the 4th century .

    If there is no proof...it is a theroy .

    Although i believe there is a ton of proof agianst it .


    Yeah Augustine, I will go into the scriptural evidence.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.fO.shO
    Id like to see some scriptual evidence . Like cyclone said....nowhere in the bible is it ever mentioned . I believe i read it was conjured up in the 4th century .

    If there is no proof...it is a theroy .

    Although i believe there is a ton of proof agianst it .

    Ton of proof against it. Explain.

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