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  1. #1
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    Church approves gay weddings

    The swedish church now officaly gives to gay weddings. The teological council in sweden say its inline with the christian code of ethics.

    What do you guys think about that? Would you like that to be allowed in your countries??

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    The swedish church now officaly gives to gay weddings. The teological council in sweden say its inline with the christian code of ethics.

    What do you guys think about that? Would you like that to be allowed in your countries??
    Why not, as long as they arnt touching my freckle I have no problem with whatever they do

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    they are lying. it is not in line with the christian ethics. to be honest. things are going to happen that keep going against christianity. this would just be another. then it will be ok to be a gay priest. then im sure something else. whether i fight against it or not, its going to happen. its all in god's plan. then tribulation. i dont agree with homosexuality. not only religiously, but personally. i think its gross. but that doesnt mean that i dislike gay people. i just think they are messed up.

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    max if I found the mailadress to someone in the swedish church teological council would you be interested in debating this and then post the debate here? It could turn very interesting

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    1 corinthians 6:9..............nothing else to say. All other debates/arguments are homosexuals trying to justify their actions.

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    what is corinthians 6:9???

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    I want to see a church deny this................

    Romans 1:24-27 Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, 25 even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27 and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.

    Leviticus 20:13 "‘And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.




    Leviticus 18:22 "‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.


    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men*, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.. . .
    *Footnote 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or, "nor sodomites." Lit., "nor liers with males." Gr., ou´te ar·se·no·koi´tai; Lat., ne´que ma·scu·lo´rum con·cu·bi·to´res.
    *The same would apply to females.

  8. #8
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    ok...how do you know the same apply to females? When only males are specificly mentioned?
    Maby even god enjoys lesbians j/k

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    Quote Originally Posted by colossus1
    I want to see a church deny this................
    Leviticus 20:13 "‘And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.
    Oh really?
    If you REALLY beleive that it's important for gay people to abide by this rule, then what do you think about Christians complying with this rule as well, by putting all homosexuals to death?
    Do you think that is a good idea, or no?
    If not, then explain why gay people have to follow this text, and you do not.





    Quote Originally Posted by colossus1
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men*, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.. . .
    Why, pray tell, if fornicators and adulterers are going to meet the same fate as homosexuals, why do Christians focus so much on gay sex, which is maybe 3% of the population, and neglect the much much greater number of heterosexuals who commit adultery and fornication (which would include most everyone on this board, I might add)?
    Ya, why do Christians pick on the smaller problem of gays, and ignore the much more common problem of adultery? Where are the laws that make adultery a crime? Why don't they kick adulterers and fornicators out of the military the way they kick out gays?

    'Splain that, mon petite . . . IMHO, it's plain and simple bigotry, hate, and meanness.

    -Tock

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    oh my!

    marriage is a tradition not a right!

    sheez, when they will understand this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    i dont agree with homosexuality. not only religiously, but personally. i think its gross.
    Anyone who has sex with anything that bleeds for six days without dying is, IMHO, nuts. Gross, well, everyone has their fetish; wenches and snatch isn't one of mine. It isn't that I don't agree with it, but that it doesn't agree with me.





    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    but that doesnt mean that i dislike gay people. i just think they are messed up.
    Of course some gay people are messed up.
    But if you've looked at today's newspaper, you'll find that most of the crimes and disasters and wars and etc etc etc were started by straight people, keep going on and on and on thanks to straight people, and if you watch shows like Jerry Springer, you can't help but conclude that straight people are pretty **** weird. Or "messed up," as you might put it.

    All those TV preachers that beg for money from lonely old widows are 99.9% straight; most of the guys in prison are straight; most of the politicians in Washington are straight; most of the people who start wars and commit genocide are straight. Most of the people who commit rape, road rage, burgularies, fraud, bankruptcy, most of these people are straight. Every last person who abandons or abuses their children are straight.
    And you call gay people "messed up?"

    I'd say your perception of the real world is "messed up."

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    oh my!

    marriage is a tradition not a right!

    sheez, when they will understand this!
    Who says what is a right and what is not? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Who says what is a right and what is not? Just curious.

    **** me I dont know!(in the figuratively sense of the meaning of course)

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    The swedish church now officaly gives to gay weddings. The teological council in sweden say its inline with the christian code of ethics.

    What do you guys think about that? Would you like that to be allowed in your countries??

    IMHO, what the government does and what the church does should be two entirely different things.
    If 2 people want a church wedding, they should find a church willing to do one, go do it, and be done with it. God and the church can recognize their marriage for all the good it does them.
    But if 2 people want to have their marriage (or partnership, or whatever name you want to call it) recognized by the legal system, in courts, and have the rights and obligations that such partners get by registering their partnership with a government official, they should do so -- seperately. A religious ceremony conducted by a church official should not have the same weight in a court of law as an officlal document signed by a government representative.
    Church leaders can't make a motor vehicle license valid with their signature, so why should they make a legal relationship between 2 people binding in a court of law? Makes no sense to me . . .

    The short answer to your question is, it should really make no difference what a theological council says, one way or the other.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    **** me I dont know!(in the figuratively sense of the meaning of course)

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    Quote Originally Posted by colossus1
    1 corinthians 6:9..............nothing else to say. All other debates/arguments are homosexuals trying to justify their actions.


    Here tock........i quoted myself. This applies to you.

  17. #17
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    Tock of Im not wrong non church gay marriges has been allowed for quite some time over here. Not 100% sure though. But this step by the church is pretty big since just a few months ago a preacher got alot of media attention for claiming homosexuals should be put to death ect.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock

    But if you've looked at today's newspaper, you'll find that most of the crimes and disasters and wars and etc etc etc were started by straight people, keep going on and on and on thanks to straight people, and if you watch shows like Jerry Springer, you can't help but conclude that straight people are pretty **** weird. Or "messed up," as you might put it.


    All those TV preachers that beg for money from lonely old widows are 99.9% straight; most of the guys in prison are straight; most of the politicians in Washington are straight; most of the people who start wars and commit genocide are straight. Most of the people who commit rape, road rage, burgularies, fraud, bankruptcy, most of these people are straight. Every last person who abandons or abuses their children are straight.
    And you call gay people "messed up?"

    I'd say your perception of the real world is "messed up."

    -Tock
    so you are saying that gay people are better people because more straight people do crimes?

    the reason that more straight people cause crimes is because there are more straight people in the world. we cant compare this anyway since there are no studies on gay people committing crimes vs straight people committing crimes against an even ratio of gays in the population and straights in the population. where did you get the information that there are more straight people committing fraud and road rage and are bankrupt than straight people anyway?

    the more i read your post tock actually more and more proves my point.

    never been a gay couple who raised a child and beat them?? you positive? i dont know why i replied to this post.
    Last edited by max2extreme; 04-15-2005 at 04:37 PM.

  19. #19
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    johan, 2 questions i would ask the govt there.

    1) is there ANY indication in the christian bible that shows homosexuality is ok?

    2) is there ANY indication in the christian bible that shows homosexuality is NOT ok?


    theres 1 definate correct answer they can give for each of these questions. i would want that "yes" or "no" to these questions they would give. then after that, id hear their way of working around those answers. Thats what theyd try to do...work around scripture to fit their views instead of reading scripture to guide their views.

  20. #20
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    well the goverment isnt involved in this descision so I assume you mean the christian church. Im gonna try and find there site and what they say about it and possibly any mail adress.

    btw this thread made me curious. In that verse that colossus quotes the bibels gives instructions to KILL homosexualls, murder them in cold blood. But what about the comandment thou shalt not kill

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    IMHO, what the government does and what the church does should be two entirely different things.
    If 2 people want a church wedding, they should find a church willing to do one, go do it, and be done with it. God and the church can recognize their marriage for all the good it does them.
    But if 2 people want to have their marriage (or partnership, or whatever name you want to call it) recognized by the legal system, in courts, and have the rights and obligations that such partners get by registering their partnership with a government official, they should do so -- seperately. A religious ceremony conducted by a church official should not have the same weight in a court of law as an officlal document signed by a government representative.
    Church leaders can't make a motor vehicle license valid with their signature, so why should they make a legal relationship between 2 people binding in a court of law? Makes no sense to me . . .

    The short answer to your question is, it should really make no difference what a theological council says, one way or the other.

    -Tock

    i agree, there should be a separation in church and state. but for them to say that it is in line with christian ethics is a total lie.

    and just an FYI, when you get married in church, you are doing it for religious purposes, before God. That paper signed by our pastor or whoever religious person, etc give nothing legally until the license is signed by a city official. Just as church leaders could sign a motor vehicle license..it wouldnt give me a valid license just as a marriage license would not be valid with just their signature. but once the city signs that license, either license, then it becomse legit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    well the goverment isnt involved in this descision so I assume you mean the christian church. Im gonna try and find there site and what they say about it and possibly any mail adress.

    btw this thread made me curious. In that verse that colossus quotes the bibels gives instructions to KILL homosexualls, murder them in cold blood. But what about the comandment thou shalt not kill
    There are different views on this. I agree with what T. Crater says below:

    T.Crater: stated that the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) are a covenant between God and Israel, which also set up a civil state and decreed its laws. The Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is an agreement "between God and a multinational body called the church. It is not a state, so it doesn't engage in state functions like capital punishment." 2 Thus, the death penalty called for in Leviticus 20:13 is no longer binding for Christians.


    The commandment "thou shalt not kill" deals with murder. It is not talking about capital punishment. There was a good discussion on the topic of this commandment and what it meant. If you havnt read it, perhaps it would shed some light. I contributed to it, so if you do a search for my name, in the religious forum, with keywords "thou shall not kill" you will probably find it.

  23. #23
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    yeah I remember the topic about thou shalt not kill and how its more like thou shalt not murder.

    I should have said thou shalt not murder since I consider unprovocted killing a unarmed homosexuall a murder.

    also if leviticus 20:13 is no longer biding for christian does it also mean the anti homosexuality is also no longer valid? Why just throw away a part of the verse and not everything? This is confusing me.

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    yea johan i meant the swedish church...not govt.

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    Bible says its wrong...so what. Stack me some bibles and ill take dump on them just for show.

    The weird thing is that gay people would want to be wed by a religion saying they should be put to death...thats sick.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan

    also if leviticus 20:13 is no longer biding for christian does it also mean the anti homosexuality is also no longer valid? Why just throw away a part of the verse and not everything? This is confusing me.
    Id like to refer back to the post below. I believe in number 4.
    after reading the post below, then remember in the NT

    Romans 1:26-28

    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;




    ************************************************** *******
    If you are asking if we are under the Mosaic Law, there are a few differing Christian viewpoints:

    1) We are under the entire Mosaic Law (613 commandments), including all
    dietary restrictions. I don't hold to this view for a few reasons. a) The
    Mosaic Law was for the physical people of Israel under the Old Covenant. I
    am a Gentile and was never under the Mosaic Law. b) I am under the New
    Covenant, which replaces the Old Covenant and its laws.

    2) We are under the Moral Code of the Mosaic Law (10 Commandments) and not
    the Ritual Laws (dietary, clothing, etc.). This is the major view of most
    Protestants in the world. I am dissatisfied with this view because I don't
    see an arbitrary separation between moral laws and ritual laws. It is all
    called "The Law." You either are bound by all of it or none of it. I'm not
    completely ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater on this view
    yet...

    3) We are not under any part of any law. This is what is called, in
    theological circles, antinomianism. That is a big word for no (anti) law
    (nomos in Greek). I don't like this view either because it simply doesn't
    hold water biblically.

    4) We are under the "Law of Christ" as described in the NT and written on
    our hearts under the New Covenant. This is the view I hold to. Many of the
    restrictions of the Law of Christ as found in the Gospels and the Epistles
    are the same as the Mosaic Covenant. But there are some profound
    differences. a) There is no condemnation for not keeping the law
    perfectly, since all condemnation was placed on Christ. b) There is actual
    empowerment to keep the law since we have the Holy Spirit. c) There is a new
    covenant people (the Church), and, therefore, a new law is required. d)
    There are different rituals associated with this new covenant people.

  27. #27
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    There are some wonderful gay people out there but marriage was never instituted for two of the same sex and no one has the right to change that. If they do as what is happening in Sweden it is totally against the Bible and will NEVER be in line with a Christian code of ethics! Never.

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    i like it... that leaves more swedish chicks available for the rest of us

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    and besides, why shouldn't homosexuals be put through the same misery as heterosexuals?

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    Marriage is more a state institution now than a religious one, a contract.

    If we have no state religion, than how can we ban people from entering a state endorsed contract?

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    Originally Posted by colossus1
    1 corinthians 6:9..............nothing else to say. All other debates/arguments are homosexuals trying to justify their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus1
    Here tock........i quoted myself. This applies to you.
    The bible is so full of bizarre stuff, that if you quote from it, it really doesn't prove anything.

    Preachers quoted from the bible to prove that black people deserved to be enslaved. Preachers quote from the bible to prove that women should be subservient to men and never be a man's boss. Preachers quote from the bible to prove that gays should be put to death.

    So what? It's a silly book, full of unsubstantiated claims, and gullible people beleive it the same way that gullible people beleive the Koran, or what Rev. David Koresh said ("Have some of this Kool-aid and go to Heaven").

    It don't mean a thing . . .

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Tock of Im not wrong non church gay marriges has been allowed for quite some time over here. Not 100% sure though. But this step by the church is pretty big since just a few months ago a preacher got alot of media attention for claiming homosexuals should be put to death ect.
    Ya, I heard something about that preacher . . .
    IMHO, I still think a complete seperation between churches and government is a good idea.
    Here in the US, there's a new strain of thought that alleges that the US Constitution's language concerning the relationship between religion and government means only that government can't interfere with religious organizations, but it's OK for religious organization to interfere with government. That's pretty bizarre, but since that concept originated from religious leaders, it's no surprise.

    Maybe they'll get their way, and then we'll have compulsory prayer to Jesus in public schools and government offices every day. And the US will be that much more like Iran . . .

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    i dont agree with homosexuality. not only religiously, but personally. i think its gross. but that doesnt mean that i dislike gay people. i just think they are messed up.
    Of course some gay people are messed up.
    But if you've looked at today's newspaper, you'll find that most of the
    crimes and disasters and wars and etc etc etc were started by straight
    people, keep going on and on and on thanks to straight people, and if
    you watch shows like Jerry Springer, you can't help but conclude that
    straight people are pretty **** weird. Or "messed up," as you might put
    it.


    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    so you are saying that gay people are better people because more straight people do crimes?
    Where did I say that gay people were better?
    IMHO, gay people are no better and no worse than heterosexuals. Certainly no worse than heterosexuals to be considered "messed up."





    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    the reason that more straight people cause crimes is because there are more straight people in the world.
    I'm glad you agree.

    However, even though heterosexuals outnumber gays by 97 to 3, and presumably the volume of heterosexual adultery and fornication outnumbers gay adultery and fornication by a similar ratio, don't you find it odd that 97% of the effort to improve morality focuses on the 3% of the population that is gay, and largely ignores the biggest part of the problem?

    But again, it's not surprising, considering that church people are some of the most obnoxious hypocrites soiling the face of the planet.







    [QUOTE=max2extreme] where did you get the information that there are more straight people committing fraud and road rage and are bankrupt than straight people anyway?
    I don't think I said that, did I?








    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    the more i read your post tock actually more and more proves my point.
    And, the more you read into my post, the more certain you are that I've proven your point.






    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    never been a gay couple who raised a child and beat them?? you positive? i dont know why i replied to this post.
    I'm sure that's happened a few times.
    I'm also sure that heterosexuals have beaten their kids many more times. So why not pick on heterosexual child abusers with the same zeal you pick on gay child beaters?

    Maybe it's because you just like me, and want my attention . . .

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    btw this thread made me curious. In that verse that colossus quotes the bibels gives instructions to KILL homosexualls, murder them in cold blood. But what about the comandment thou shalt not kill
    I'm curious to know why some Christians say it's important to obey god, but who somehow think they don't have to obey the Bible when it says they should put gay people to death.

    Sounds inconsistant and hypocritical to me.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    is there ANY indication in the christian bible that shows homosexuality is ok?
    Sure, mon petite . . . lookie here: http://www.mcncchurch.org/Bible_and_Gays1.html
    http://gays4jesus.com/gaybackground.html
    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct04/Salisbury1015.htm
    http://www.geocities.com/coolhouston..._passages.html
    http://www.godlovesfags.com/bible.html

    There's lots and lots more, but I'm sure these few will be more than enough to sate your curiousity.
    -Tock

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    and just an FYI, when you get married in church, you are doing it for religious purposes, before God. That paper signed by our pastor or whoever religious person, etc give nothing legally until the license is signed by a city official.
    Here in Texas and in several other states, a clergyman's signature on a marriage certificate is valid to show that 2 people are legally married.
    -Tock

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    3Vandoo's Avatar
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    God tells me to tell you! and I quote his words of wisdom!

    "This thread is seriously gay"


    amen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    and gullible people beleive it the same way that gullible people beleive the Koran

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by inheritmylife
    Marriage is more a state institution now than a religious one, a contract.

    If we have no state religion, than how can we ban people from entering a state endorsed contract?
    thats a matter of opinion. it was definatly more a religious one for me and my wife. the state signature was just a checked box we had to do. being married before god was a necessity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock

    Where did I say that gay people were better?
    IMHO, gay people are no better and no worse than heterosexuals. Certainly no worse than heterosexuals to be considered "messed up."
    you're whole post had a 'straight people do all these things and gays dont' aroma.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    However, even though heterosexuals outnumber gays by 97 to 3, and presumably the volume of heterosexual adultery and fornication outnumbers gay adultery and fornication by a similar ratio, don't you find it odd that 97% of the effort to improve morality focuses on the 3% of the population that is gay, and largely ignores the biggest part of the problem?

    But again, it's not surprising, considering that church people are some of the most obnoxious hypocrites soiling the face of the planet.
    what do you consider gay adultery? im assuming you are talking about christian church ignoring other morals?? or a country? if you mean christian church, its not just homosexuality that is fought, but adultery, and all other morals are fought equally. i think its just you are homosexual it hits home harder...but adultery is just as much fought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    I'm sure that's happened a few times.
    I'm also sure that heterosexuals have beaten their kids many more times. So why not pick on heterosexual child abusers with the same zeal you pick on gay child beaters?
    I dont pick on gay child beaters any more than straight child beaters. i didnt even bring all that up, you did. but again you cant compare numbers because there are many more staight families with kids than gay. a child abuser is a child abuser, no matter what. homosexuality is a whole different issue.

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