Thread: How STUPID are we????
05-25-2005, 11:01 PM #1
How STUPID are we????
Here the muslim world is under the impression that we are waging a religious
war against them........and then we do DUMB stuff like this.......are the morons like Rumsfeld just trying their best to pick a fight?? With Islam being the fastest growing religion in the world......we'd better learn how to live peacefully.
FBI records: Detainees allege Quran abuse
ACLU releases hundreds of documents obtained in lawsuit
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Detainees at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, alleged in 2002 that guards mistreated the Quran, according to some of the hundreds of FBI documents released by the American Civil Liberties Union.
The ACLU obtained the documents from the FBI through a federal court order in a lawsuit based on a Freedom of Information Act request. Most of them are records of detainee interviews with FBI agents.
According to the documents, a detainee interviewed in August 2002 said guards had flushed a copy of the Quran in a toilet.
Others reported the Quran being kicked, withheld as punishment and thrown on the floor.
Prisoners also complained about "non-believers" touching the book, according to the documents.
A senior Pentagon official said Wednesday that on May 14 camp officials re-interviewed the detainee who made the flushing claim and he failed to substantiate it.
The senior official also denied allegations by detainees that interrogators desecrated Qurans to intimidate them.
FBI officials said the documents released Wednesday merely reflect allegations made by individuals interviewed by the FBI.
The FBI did not investigate the allegations and said that would be the responsibility of the Defense Department.
In addition to complaints about the treatment of the Quran, detainees told FBI agents about alleged beatings, planned suicides, hunger strikes and sexual assaults, according to the documents.
"The United States government continues to turn a blind eye to mounting evidence of widespread abuse of detainees held in its custody," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero in a news release.
"If we are to truly repair America's standing in the world, the Bush administration must hold accountable high-ranking officials who allow the continuing abuse and torture of detainees."
The ACLU said it made the Freedom of Information Act request in October 2003 and filed a lawsuit in June 2004 demanding the government comply.
The group said that so far more than 35,000 pages of government documents have been released in response to the FOIA lawsuit.
But it contends the Pentagon and CIA continue to "unlawfully" withhold "documents concerning abuse and torture of prisoners" and said it will go back to federal court to argue that position.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters Wednesday that past accusations have had credibility issues.
"There have been allegations made by detainees," McClellan said. "We know that members of al Qaeda are trained to mislead and to provide false reports.
"We know that's one of their tactics that they use. And so I think you have to keep that in mind as well."
Last week, Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita, during an extensive answer about abuse allegations, said the Defense Department was reviewing how U.S. troops handle the Quran.
"There have been instances, and we'll have more to say about it as we learn more, but where a Quran may have fallen to the floor in the course of searching a cell," Di Rita told reporters.
"So they've reviewed the standard operating procedures to see if perhaps we could have been more careful in those cases."
"The [U.S.] philosophy as reflected in the standard operating procedures is one of great respect for the Quran and other religious articles, and for the detainees' practice of their faith, and that's what we're doing," he said.
A recent Newsweek magazine article alleged that U.S. investigators concluded that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had desecrated the Quran, in one instance by flushing the Muslim holy book down a toilet.
Newsweek subsequently retracted the report, saying its government source had indicated doubts about his information after publication. (Full story)
The Bush administration blamed the report, at least in part, for deadly violence that erupted in early May, when thousands of demonstrators marched in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world.
But some U.S. and Newsweek officials said the magazine article was not to blame for the violence.
Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai said this week during a trip to the United States the protests were "directed at the peace process" and the "elections in Afghanistan." (Full story)
On May 13, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, cited a U.S. commander as saying the protests in Jalalabad, at least, were more about local politics than anti-American sentiment stirred up by the Newsweek report.
The International Committee of the Red Cross said last week it had gathered "credible" reports about U.S. personnel at Guantanamo Bay disrespecting the Quran and had raised the issue with the Pentagon several times.
Group spokesman Simon Schorno said the allegations were made by detainees to Red Cross representatives who visited the detention facility throughout 2002 and 2003. (Full story)
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said then that the Pentagon in 2003 issued strict guidelines on how U.S. personnel should handle the Quran.
Schorno said the Red Cross heard no more allegations about mishandling of the Quran after the guidelines were issued.
Also Wednesday, Amnesty International criticized the United States in its annual report on human rights, calling on foreign governments to investigate President Bush and members of his administration. (Full story)
The London, England-based group detailed claims of alleged mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
The naval base at Guantanamo Bay houses 520 detainees, according to the Department of Defense Web site.
CNN's Kelli Arena, Justine Redman and Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.
05-26-2005, 06:16 AM #2
LOL, now thats my kind of toilet. Oh poor babies. These ppl are prisoners of war!! I used to like the ACLU before they became the right hand of the DNC.
05-26-2005, 07:12 AM #3Originally Posted by roidattack
05-26-2005, 08:35 AM #4
wow they must be over 7'0 and have really big asses if they can flush a ****ing quran in the toilet
05-26-2005, 08:40 AM #5Originally Posted by Benches505
and they use ameircan products/food like mcdonalds,pepsi etc...... ****ING HYPOCRITS u would have to actually come here and live with those people to realize how much they hate u then again theyd prob be for ur dollars
05-26-2005, 09:21 AM #6Originally Posted by CrystalMethodX
05-26-2005, 11:31 AM #7Originally Posted by CrystalMethodX
As to this post in general, it is true that the extremists have been successful in distorting the American mission. It is however truly a shame how quickly they forget all the good the USA has done for them, how many oppressed are now free, how much financial aid, agriculture initiatives, medical, and disaster relief, academic programs, the countless masses who came here to escape the brutality of there own countries, and practice there faith freely and safely.
But all is forgotten because we tied up and photographed some naked terrorists.
All is forgotten because Americans have the backbone to stand up and do the right thing.
Last edited by singern; 05-26-2005 at 12:32 PM.
05-26-2005, 12:26 PM #8
Like I say.......Just a stupid thing to do........desecrate someone's religion and the memories of charity fade quickly.
05-26-2005, 01:02 PM #9
IMHO, yes it is wrong to do what these soldiers are doing. Every culture, race, religion, and country has people who do things like this. Men and women who torture, abuse, rape, pillage, murder, or abuse any authority they happen to be given rank just about as high as child molesters in my book. No matter what country they're from, no matter what the color of their skin and no matter what language they speak. We are all people here, some of us more than others.
But I do feel it necessary to put this in perspective. US soldiers have degraded the quran, and sexually humiliated prisoners in Iraq. While muslim soldiers are sawing heads off people with knives no matter what country they are from. yeah, everybody is a victim in this world
05-26-2005, 02:14 PM #10
But I do feel it necessary to put this in perspective. US soldiers have degraded the quran, and sexually humiliated prisoners in Iraq. While muslim soldiers are sawing heads off people with knives no matter what country they are from. yeah, everybody is a victim in this world [/QUOTE]
Yes, it would be great if everyone of our soldiers was perfect but they are not. Its like when I hear a story about a cop pistol wipping a crack head and the cop is on trial. I say B.S. to that.
05-26-2005, 02:53 PM #11Originally Posted by singern
05-26-2005, 02:55 PM #12
You want to live civilized?.....or are you just another man controlled by his animal instinct?
How bout you get pistol whipped just cause you're speeding.......where does it stop?
05-26-2005, 02:59 PM #13Originally Posted by symatech
05-26-2005, 03:02 PM #14
What the fvck are you talking about? We should man up and saw heads off? You should check yourself into a clinic.
05-26-2005, 03:04 PM #15Originally Posted by Badgerman
05-26-2005, 03:09 PM #16Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
The reason they get pistol whipped is because they resist arrest. Lets look at it this way, would they rather be beheaded with a dull knife or stand naked in a cell while receiving 3 meals a day. These people will not be happy until America is a sink hole and the Muslim clerics rule. Face it boys and girls, welcome to the Crusades III.
05-26-2005, 03:12 PM #17Originally Posted by newPlayer
05-26-2005, 03:13 PM #18Originally Posted by newPlayer
05-26-2005, 03:14 PM #19
You throw storys so well, that you should be a propagator for Iraq.
05-26-2005, 03:17 PM #20Originally Posted by Syndicate
(way under the "collateral damage").......think they could stomach that??
But it's ok to shoot from a distance.......cause we're Americans and we're righteous.......but we're big pussies cause everything is just a radar blip and number on a piece of paper.
05-26-2005, 03:17 PM #21Originally Posted by Badgerman
but ****ing muslims they deserve it
05-26-2005, 03:19 PM #22Originally Posted by Badgerman
05-26-2005, 03:24 PM #23Originally Posted by Badgerman
It all boils down to "Put up or Shut up."
05-26-2005, 03:36 PM #24
"LAWS OF ARMED CONFLICT".......just like the American revolution eh?.......you are so fvcking stupid......"humane" killing........wasn't too long ago we hung people.......missles decapitate all the time.......same with cannon balls......you just don't have the balls to say a real man would chop off a head......which is actually WAY more humane than cluster bombs and "humane "killing such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki where CIVILIANS died from their burns and still pay the price with deformities....and depleted uranium.......you're such a stupid fvcking hypocrit
05-26-2005, 03:37 PM #25
I do value your opinions and agruing with you yet, if you continue to argue like a six yr old, I'll simply stop repling.
05-26-2005, 03:39 PM #26
That's why people hate the US......cause of dumb fvckers like yourself......."yeah but we saved alot of people by frying a whole city of civilians"........same logic Saddam used against the KURDS....."Let's gas 'em so they don't breed and cause us more trouble"........you and Saddam would make good brothers
05-26-2005, 03:39 PM #27
"LOAC" have only been around for around 55 yrs they were started after the world wars, in the aftermath of inhumane killing. Hence why agent orange, mustard gas, and Napalm are outlawed in war. Along the same lines as to why we dont use chemical weapons.
05-26-2005, 03:40 PM #28
chopping a head off is less brutal than missles btw
looks to the viewer that the beheading is worst but its actuallu mericful unless ur 100% sure the missle will only kill the people u want dead wont hurt ne1 else and wont leave some1 injured badly till they die well the missle is better tho killing more people that u want dead
05-26-2005, 03:42 PM #29
And I suppose Hypocrisy=maturity.......in that case you should run for political office
05-26-2005, 03:43 PM #30Originally Posted by Badgerman
well then i would get along well with saddam civilians,women,children,old people and crippled people
women can kill other people or teach their kids hate
children will cause alot of ****in trouble if hate is planted inthem
old people can influence children
05-26-2005, 03:43 PM #31
Atomic bombs were used in the thinking that the sacrafice of the Japanese people would be less than the cumlative causalties of both enemies together.
As a side note, if you were to study japanese fights ethics, you would realize that had we not dropped those bombs, japan would have continued to fight for years.
Oh and just in case you forgot, Japan attacked us first. I love the Japanese culture, but I think they got what was coming to them, personaly.
05-26-2005, 03:46 PM #32Originally Posted by Syndicate
is way more humane than chopping a head off.........your arguments are ridiculous
05-26-2005, 03:46 PM #33
Crystal - these bombs we are dropping arnt simply carpet bombing missions alot of what we use are cruise missiles which are acurate to within a couple yards. Hence if you with the assailent, you are an acompliss.
05-26-2005, 03:48 PM #34
Your claymines, arnt used by the US anymore either.. Im thinking by the weapons you two suggest we use. You simply watch movies and assume thats what we use. As for Napalm, we dont use Incinerary devices anymore... At all.
05-26-2005, 03:49 PM #35Originally Posted by Syndicate
05-26-2005, 03:50 PM #36
Hence if you with the assailent, you are an acompliss.
I really hope this wasnt to me i have my own reasons for everything i do not support ne country i do not have ne loyalty no ne country i only support us cuz its killing muslims and arabs
05-26-2005, 03:52 PM #37
Theres a big differnce in 50 years. So dont compare the actions of the US 50 years ago with what Saddam did 10 years ago. Not only is he no affliated with the US. He was a Dictator.
Or I could bring up how the middle east cuts off your hand for stealing and in the US we simply arrests you and releases you with a small fine if anything.
Last edited by Syndicate; 05-26-2005 at 03:54 PM.
05-26-2005, 03:53 PM #38Originally Posted by CrystalMethodX
05-26-2005, 04:00 PM #39
mmm no that doesnt make sense to me in a way or 2
me an infedel lol makes me laugh evertime
now for the time being im with ma mom and sis (****ing sux) and theyre both muslims and shit but have no terrorist intentions and condone the ones happening their now lets say one of the ****ing muslims out there decides hey CMX is an infedel is spreading satanism ill bomb his house now thats stupid killing cuz my ma and sis are not but still I WOULD ****ING KILL THEM ALL WITH THEIR WIVES CHILDREN BABIES AND UNBORN CHILDREN every1 has their opinion depending on a situation its all relative no1 is rite and no1 is wrong so do what u think is rite
05-26-2005, 04:09 PM #40
We used a napalm derivative on the bridges in Iraq
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