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  1. #1
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Suicide bombers.......who are they??

    US author explains 'suicide attacks'
    by
    Friday 03 June 2005 10:57 PM GMT


    Pape says "suicide" attacks are not related to Islam


    A surge in "suicide attacks" in Iraq and elsewhere around the world is a response to territorial occupation and has no direct link with "Islamic fundamentalism", a political science professor has said.



    Robert Pape, associate professor of political science at the University of Chicago, has spent 25 years creating a database of such attacks and has chronicled them in his new book, Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism.

    According to the author, most suicide terrorists were well-integrated and productive members of their communities from working-class or middle-class backgrounds.



    "Technicians, waitresses, security guards, ambulance drivers, paramedics ... few are criminals. Most are volunteers whose first act of violence is their very own suicide attack," Pape said.



    A broad misunderstanding of the issue, he said, is taking the US-led war on terrorism in the wrong direction and could in fact be fueling an increase in what he calls suicide terrorism.



    Pape has created what he calls the first comprehensive database on every suicide terrorist attack in the world since 1980, using Arabic, Hebrew, Tamil and Russian-language sources.



    The US Departments of Defense and Homeland Security, as well as the UN Secretary-General's office were looking at the information, he said.



    Not "Islamic fundamentalism"



    "Islamic fundamentalism is not the primary driver of suicide terrorism," Pape said. "Nearly all suicide terrorist attacks are committed for a secular strategic goal - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory

    the terrorists view as their homeland."


    Attacks in Iraq are a response
    to foreign occupation, Pape says




    "Yes, it's true we're killing terrorists day by day, but the real measure of suicide terrorism is simply the number of attacks," said Pape. "The problem with suicide terrorism is that it's not supply limited, it's demand-driven."



    Pape cited suicide terrorism campaigns from Lebanon to Israel, Chechnya and Sri Lanka, where he said major democracies - the United States, Israel, France, India, Russia - had been the principal targets.



    Pape writes that the world's most prolific suicide terrorist organisation is the Tamil Tigers - a secular, Hindu group in Sri Lanka which he said invented the "suicide belt".



    Never in Iraq's history



    Iraq, he said, was a prime example of strategic terrorism.



    Prior to the US-led invasion in March 2003 there was "never in Iraq's history a suicide terrorist attack" but since then they had doubled every year.



    There has been a sharp escalation in violence since Iraq's new Shia-dominated cabinet was announced in late April.



    More than 700 Iraqis and 80 US soldiers were killed in bombings and other attacks in May, making it the deadliest month in Iraq since January.



    Pape collected demographic information on 462 suicide attackers who completed their missions and said he found that the common wisdom was wrong.



    Misconceptions



    "The standard stereotype of a suicide attacker as a lonely individual on the margins of society with a miserable existence is actually quite far from the truth," he said.



    Pape, who has been invited to discuss his analysis with a bipartisan group of US congressmen, said he hoped his book would demonstrate to policymakers that a presumed connection between suicide attacks and Islamic fundamentalism is misleading and could contribute to policies that worsen the situation.



    The US government had only "a partial understanding" of what has been driving suicide terrorism because it did not begin collecting data until 2000, Pape said.

    "Once you have a more complete picture you can see that the main cause of suicide terrorism is a response to foreign occupation, not Islamic fundamentalism, and the use of heavy combat forces to transform a Muslim society is only likely to increase the number of suicide terrorists as is now happening."


    Reuters

  2. #2
    smokethedays's Avatar
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    there are always some extremists in any religion or creed, those who mis-interpret certain verses or principels intentionaly or unintentionaly usualy are the brains of certain organizations that hides behind religion to reach personal goals. just be sure bro there are no religion in the world where killing is allowed. until it's for self defense.

  3. #3
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    Wow. Interesting stuff...thanks for posting this. I always had this picture of a confused muslim who's coerced into this crap with the promise of 72 virgins.

  4. #4
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Where's Singern???......some solid research and no response??....tsk tsk.

  5. #5
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    I saw the author on fox the other day and it was very interesting.

  6. #6
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    So SINGERN......where's YOUR research since you know so much about the terrorists.......bet you would be one if the US were occupied by....let's say FRANCE.......OMG.........Singern would be filling up the pouches on his bomb belt.

  7. #7
    singern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Where's Singern???......some solid research and no response??....tsk tsk.
    Wait, this is priceless. An Associate teacher writes a book, and you hail it as solid research. For a fictional doctor you are not very bright, and your bedside manner is sorely wanting.
    Last edited by singern; 06-06-2005 at 06:59 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Wait, this is priceless. An Associate teacher writes a book, and you hail it as solid research. For a fictional doctor you are not very bright, and your bedside manner is sorely wanting.
    Associate Professor is MUCH different than "teacher".......and at the University of Chicago......seems members of Congress respect his research.....
    hopefully this will help US understand motives a little better

    I could see you Singern......sneaking under the fence at a FRENCH airbase......then getting sidetracked and not completing your mission......you get all attracted to some French guy in uniform......sacre bleu

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Where's Singern???......some solid research and no response??....tsk tsk.
    man take it easy with him he have a mental problem and he is slow in understanding researches he is only used to the brainwashing propaganda maybe he get a headach when he read something different. We have to cure his mental illness first then free him from the brainwashing machine and finally put him on some rehabilitation program.

  10. #10
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    This article is very true. Also many attacks are from anger, after seeing what foreign armies are doing to your people.

    This line is exaclty correct -

    "Nearly all suicide terrorist attacks are committed for a secular strategic goal - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory the terrorists view as their homeland."

  11. #11
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    Tracing causes of terrorism
    By Afzaal Mahmood
    Not a school teacher from Chicago.


    The problem of terrorism, two important factors have played a crucial role in distorting Muslim consciousness and its world view in modern times. The thinking of the fundamentalist Islamic intellectuals and the great masses of ordinary Muslims has been deeply influenced by these two factors which are generally overlooked in any discussion of terrorism.

    Perhaps the most important cause underlying Islamic resentment against the West, led by America, is the culture of victimhood. Instead of asking: "Where did we go wrong", the Muslims have been asking the wrong question: "Who did this to us."

    First they blamed the crusades, then the Mongol invasion, then the western imperialism of the last two centuries, and currently the American and Jewish conspiracy to keep them down.

    No forward movement in the fight against terrorism is possible unless the Muslims are made to realize that the success of their adversaries has not been the cause but the consequence of their decline and decay.

    When Europe was living in dark ages, the Islamic world was a global leader in science, technology, statecraft, culture and arts. Its decline began when it turned away from the path of reform and regeneration and began to resist change and st***e intellectual inquisitiveness and creativity.

    That was the reason the Renaissance, the Reformation and even the scientific revolution passed unnoticed in the Islamic world. In a nutshell, the Muslims fell behind because they failed to come to grips with new ideas and changing times. But there is a more important factor that explains the current turmoil of the Islamic world. The larger crisis of the Islamic society is neither political nor economic.

    It is the crisis of a civilization that has become aware of its inadequacies but is too confused or fearful to walk the path of reason and embrace reforms and changes that are imperative to move forward. This factor largely explains the social, political, economic, cultural and institutional crisis that we encounter today throughout the Islamic world.

    We have to get out of the groove of hate and spite, rage and self-pity. We have to regain the lost spirit of inquiry and analysis, reconstruction and regeneration so that we may once again walk the path of reason and embrace reforms and changes imperative for moving forward.

    The only way to win that war is to conquer the hearts and souls of the people by seriously addressing the underlying issues of poverty, injustice, disparity and suppression.

    The writer is a former ambassador.

  12. #12
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Tracing causes of terrorism
    By Afzaal Mahmood
    Not a school teacher from Chicago.


    The problem of terrorism, two important factors have played a crucial role in distorting Muslim consciousness and its world view in modern times. The thinking of the fundamentalist Islamic intellectuals and the great masses of ordinary Muslims has been deeply influenced by these two factors which are generally overlooked in any discussion of terrorism.

    Perhaps the most important cause underlying Islamic resentment against the West, led by America, is the culture of victimhood. Instead of asking: "Where did we go wrong", the Muslims have been asking the wrong question: "Who did this to us."

    First they blamed the crusades, then the Mongol invasion, then the western imperialism of the last two centuries, and currently the American and Jewish conspiracy to keep them down.

    No forward movement in the fight against terrorism is possible unless the Muslims are made to realize that the success of their adversaries has not been the cause but the consequence of their decline and decay.

    When Europe was living in dark ages, the Islamic world was a global leader in science, technology, statecraft, culture and arts. Its decline began when it turned away from the path of reform and regeneration and began to resist change and st***e intellectual inquisitiveness and creativity.

    That was the reason the Renaissance, the Reformation and even the scientific revolution passed unnoticed in the Islamic world. In a nutshell, the Muslims fell behind because they failed to come to grips with new ideas and changing times. But there is a more important factor that explains the current turmoil of the Islamic world. The larger crisis of the Islamic society is neither political nor economic.

    It is the crisis of a civilization that has become aware of its inadequacies but is too confused or fearful to walk the path of reason and embrace reforms and changes that are imperative to move forward. This factor largely explains the social, political, economic, cultural and institutional crisis that we encounter today throughout the Islamic world.

    We have to get out of the groove of hate and spite, rage and self-pity. We have to regain the lost spirit of inquiry and analysis, reconstruction and regeneration so that we may once again walk the path of reason and embrace reforms and changes imperative for moving forward.

    The only way to win that war is to conquer the hearts and souls of the people by seriously addressing the underlying issues of poverty, injustice, disparity and suppression.

    The writer is a former ambassador.

    That quote is plagerized from a book I just read.......plus it is opinion.......passionate and wordy......but not necessarily backed by evidence......the statistical study on terrorism shows it is a result of OCCUPATION.......
    hurts to be wrong Singern......and you are wrong

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    That quote is plagerized from a book I just read.......plus it is opinion.......passionate and wordy......but not necessarily backed by evidence......the statistical study on terrorism shows it is a result of OCCUPATION.......
    hurts to be wrong Singern......and you are wrong

    Gee wiz "Doctor", is that your professional opinion?





    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look upon Mr. Anti Terrorism, and tremble! I said Tremble!!!!!
    Last edited by singern; 06-08-2005 at 11:07 AM.

  14. #14
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Gee wiz "Doctor", is that your professional opinion?





    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look upon Mr. Anti Terrorism, and tremble! I said Tremble!!!!!

    Thank you for addressing me properly......what's your degree???......somewhere below zero?

  15. #15
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    And here's the book link......your quote is a slight modification of part of it.....the author is Bernard Lewis

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

  16. #16
    MilitiaGuy's Avatar
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    I think all the educated people in USA have views similar to badgerman.

  17. #17
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    Badgerman.
    Its a beautiful thing, the only one who agrees with you on anything is a cold blooded terrorist, who would saw off your head before Cornflakes. Oh what a great day it must be in the Badgerman home. All those years at Medical school have truly paid off.





    .--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look upon Mr. Anti Terrorism, and tremble! I said Tremble!!!!!
    Last edited by singern; 06-09-2005 at 08:58 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    I think all the educated people in USA have views similar to badgerman.

    Well, I think this particular group of people would be better described as the people who are out of touch with reality....

  19. #19
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Badgerman.
    Its a beautiful thing, the only one who agrees with you on anything is a cold blooded terrorist, who would saw off your head before Cornflakes. Oh what a great day it must be in the Badgerman home. All those years at Medical school have truly paid off.





    .--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look upon Mr. Anti Terrorism, and tremble! I said Tremble!!!!!

    He wouldn't cut my head off.......I wouldn't be trespassing on his property and respect his sovereignty........therefore he wouldn't have any reason to chop off my head.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    He wouldn't cut my head off.......I wouldn't be trespassing on his property and respect his sovereignty........therefore he wouldn't have any reason to chop off my head.
    I'll wager those civilians that were there to help the Iraqi people, and got their heads chopped off have a very different opinion.

  21. #21
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    Lets not forget the nearly 25000 Iraqi’s murdered by these insurgents, terrorists, and former Baath party loyalists. I believe its safe to say they don’t give a flying squirrel what your political, religious, or ethnic background is.




    .--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look upon Mr. Anti Terrorism, and tremble! I said Tremble!!!!!
    Last edited by singern; 06-10-2005 at 09:54 AM.

  22. #22
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    Outside forces are never a solution to civil unrest.......they can keep a lid on the hate temporarily......but it never fixes it.......the Iraqis have to fix it on their own......Saddam had a very secular society......now it will become more Shia like.....which is worse???.......now Iraq is full of terrorists.......which is better???
    the way it was or the way it is now???.......especially in light of there being no WMDs........and especially in light of the cost in money and lives.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    I'll wager those civilians that were there to help the Iraqi people, and got their heads chopped off have a very different opinion.
    Obviously they didn't want the help.......ever think that we are just not welcome there???......Kind of like a neighbor that just doesn't like you.....no matter how hard you try........better just to stay off their property......now we are going to establish a permanent military occupation.......and the terrorism will continue forever

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    I'll wager those civilians that were there to help the Iraqi people.
    Not really, they were in Iraq for the money. The civilian contract jobs pay like crazy, but you risk alot.
    Last edited by N00b; 06-10-2005 at 01:34 AM.

  25. #25
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    Some may think its crazy but the bigger winner in this war and the previous afghanistan war was Iran yes USA army now is beside Iran but its a bleeding defensive army and Iran got rid now from the taliban regime in afghanistan which was like a sleeping ennemy, they got rid from saddam regime to and now Iran have cards to play with against the USA because they have a big influence in Iraq actualy the Iraqi governement have an Iranian taste, the major players in Iraq now are the Iranian intelligence and the CIA and I think the Iranian diplomats are very smart and witty they succeed in making a division between the europian countries and between USA and the eruopians because they did well in playing with Iraqi cards.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by N00b
    Not really, they were in Iraq for the money. The civilian contract jobs pay like crazy, but you risk alot.
    Some where but not all, take for example Margaret Hassan who had spent most of her life working for the good of the people of Iraq.

  27. #27
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    Halliburton's there to help......help themselves to the cash

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