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  1. #1
    Tock's Avatar
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    Military Draft -- Coming or no?

    Republicans said it wouldn't happen, but rumblings are that it will. Keep in mind that if the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy is still intact, so all ya gotta do is tell 'em that you're gay and you'll be exempt from the draft (hey, it's not my idea; IMHO, Republicans shouldn't give gay people this sort of special treatment, but they think it's better to send straight guys to get shot in Iraq instead of gays--complain to them, not me) . . . If you need verification, I'll be happy to vouch for ya. Make you an honorary homosexual, fancy certificate and everything, maybe even do the dirty in front of the draft board if that's what it takes to convince 'em . . .
    ----------------------------


    . . . the humorous approach:

    http://www.enjoythedraft.com/
    President Bush today called on America to address a growing crisis - the dwindling supply of our nation's widows. Since the end of the Vietnam War, America has ranked at the rock bottom of nations in terms of widows per capita. The president is asking college students to reverse this devastating trend before it's too late. "If we do not radically increase the number of widows," Bush said, "the nation's supply of unimaginable grief and senseless rage could drop to dangerous levels."
    The president is doing his part by promoting marriage, provoking long and bloody wars, and providing our troops in Iraq with no clear mission or exit strategy, ensuring the return of a draft in his second term. If re-elected on November 2, Bush says he will immediately introduce the "No Widow Left Behind Act" to ensure that America again reclaims its place among the widowmakers of the world.



    The not-so-humorous approach:

    http://www.geocities.com/draft_in_2005/main.htm

    This is not a joke. If you are between 18 and 26, gear up for a possible military draft in 2005 (no college exemptions). You have probably heard about the legislation in Congress, the military being strained by the extensive wars, military officials and politicians calling for a draft, the SSS drive to fill the draft boards, polls on FOXNEWS asking questions about the draft, George W. Bush's statements like "We must stay on course", Senator Kerry promoting his National Service Program, and hanging out with the pro-draft congressmen, and the extensive number of sites springing up all across the internet asking questions about the return of the draft. The purpose of this site is to inform you of the possible draft. I started this site NOT TO BASH OR PROMOTE A PARTICULAR POLITICAL PARTY. Members of both parties have expressed the desire for a draft. I have no agenda of any kind. The only personal information I will give is that I am strongly anti-draft. If you oppose the draft as well, you are NOT ALONE. This site is on geocities not because I am not serious about it, but because I have no resources to own and run my own domain. Its HTML only because my web space is limited, and I don't have a high speed connection to upload large files. With that said, lets cut to the chase, we don't have much time (possibly until 2005).

  2. #2
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    an alertnative is to have America create a foriegn legion

    (essentially this means foriegners become well trained military slaves) it worked out for France, so well infact, that foriengers comprise of their only popular and semi-successful special forces group

  3. #3
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    that show the size of the deep sand hole USA is stuck in

  4. #4
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    lol, the recruiters are meeting all of their quotas. I dont understand why ppl are beating this dead horse. No draft.

  5. #5
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Yes, I could see a need for a draft if America is to continue its policy of foreign aggression, and be semi-successful in doing so. Otherwise America is going to have its military's ass kicked.

  6. #6
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    Dont hold your breath bouncer.

  7. #7
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    That's the only Draft the american youth should see!


  8. #8
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    i think most of the america youth will escape to canada if they do it : " We all gonnaaaaaaaa dieeeeeeee!!!!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    i think most of the america youth will escape to canada if they do it : " We all gonnaaaaaaaa dieeeeeeee!!!!"

    No we will refuse them! All the 60's dodgers married canadian women and since we have alot of liberal wussies !

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    No we will refuse them! All the 60's dodgers married canadian women and since we have alot of liberal wussies !



    lol...

  11. #11
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    The real question is: If there will be a draft should females be required to serve?

  12. #12
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    there will never be another draft, thats what the inactive reserve is for

  13. #13
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILPOLDAN1
    there will never be another draft, thats what the inactive reserve is for

    "inactive reserve", is that another name for cannon fodder?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack
    lol, the recruiters are meeting all of their quotas. I dont understand why ppl are beating this dead horse. No draft.
    That's not what the Army's saying -- and if Bush starts another war somewhere (or if some crazy nut starts one with the US), they're gonna need more fresh meat from somewhere, for sure.

    Of course, Bush wants to send that idiot who hates foreigners and the UN to be the US Ambassador the United Nations, so never know how soon another war should break out . . .

    -Tock






    http://www.detnews.com/2005/nation/0...tio-212264.htm

    Saturday, June 11, 2005


    Army misses recruiting goal for fourth consecutive month


    By Ann Scott Tyson / The Washington Post

    WASHINGTON -- The Army announced Friday that it missed its recruiting goal for the fourth consecutive month, a deepening manpower crisis that officials said would require a dramatic summer push for recruits if the service is to avoid missing its annual enlistment target for the first time since 1999.

    The Army will make a "monumental effort" to bring in an average of 10,000 recruits a month this summer, said Major Gen. Michael D. Rochelle. An additional 500 active-duty recruiters will be added in the next two months -- on top of an increase of 1,000 earlier this year.

    The Pentagon is also considering asking Congress to double the enlistment bonus it can offer to the most-prized recruits -- from $20,000 to $40,000 -- and to raise the age limit for Army active-duty service from 35 to 40, he said.

    "The challenge is one of historic proportions," Rochelle said, acknowledging that he is not sure whether the traditional summer surge in Army recruits will take place, or how large it might be.

    Violent, long deployments to Iraq and a sound job market at home have combined to reduce what the Army calls the "propensity to enlist" -- the percentage of young Americans willing to consider Army service -- which dropped from 11 percent last year to about 7 percent this year.

    "What I don't know, in all candor, is how the reduced propensity will dampen" the recruiting prospects of summer, Rochelle said in an interview.

    The Army's recruiting difficulties are only expected to grow. "Next year promises quite frankly, given the size of our entry pool, to be an even tougher fight," he said. "God forbid a downward trend" in the willingness to serve, he added.

    The Army missed its May active-duty recruiting goal of 6,700 by 1,661 recruits, pushing the shortfall for fiscal 2005 to 8,321 -- or more than a month's worth of recruits. The shortfall would have been nearly 40 percent if the Army had not lowered its May goal. Overall, the Army has sent 40,964 enlistees to boot camp, and has four months to nearly double that figure to reach the 80,000 goal for this fiscal year.

    Army, Navy and Marine Corps reserve forces also missed their goals for May. Army National Guard enlistments for the month fell short by 29 percent, Army Reserves by 18 percent, Marine Corps Reserves by 12 percent and Navy Reserves by 4 percent, according to figures released Friday by the Pentagon.

    The Army is struggling the most, as it provides the bulk of forces fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and is working to increase in size to 512,000 by adding 30,000 troops to fill 10 new brigades.

    The sluggish flow of enlistments means that Army boot camps are less than half full -- training at 46 percent of their capacity this month compared with 91 percent in May 2004, said Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the Army's Training and Doctrine Command. The Army can meet its goals only with a "massive influx of recruits" to boot camp this summer, Perritt said.

    To produce that summer windfall, the Army is paying an increasingly high price -- in dollars and in drawing resources from other missions -- when the nation's all-volunteer Army is facing its longest sustained combat ever.

    The 500 additional recruiters the Army plans to bring on this summer will be seasoned noncommissioned officers taken from active-duty units, Rochelle said, representing "a very substantial sacrifice" for an Army stretched thin in Iraq.

    More recruiters on the payroll, in addition to a major advertising campaign, and increased recruiting bonuses of as much as $20,000 have substantially increased the average cost of recruiting one person -- from $1,250 two years ago to $1,500 today, he said.

    Projecting even bigger problems next year, the Army is preparing to ask Congress to approve higher incentives and legal changes to broaden the pool of candidates. Proposals under consideration in the Pentagon include doubling the maximum enlistment bonus to $40,000 for troops in high-demand jobs such as intelligence, infantry, special operations and civil affairs, as well as linguists, Rochelle said.

    Another proposal would raise the age limit for active-duty Army recruits from 35 to 40. The Army raised that limit for its reserve elements in March, but increasing it for the active-duty force requires congressional approval. Rochelle said the change would bring in soldiers with greater experience and maturity, while making little difference in terms of physical abilities -- saying that today's 40-year-olds are in better physical shape than they were when the law was written.

    Army officials stress that they are not lowering standards in the push for recruits. But they acknowledge they are slightly less selective in some areas -- for example, by taking more enlistees who lack high school diplomas.

    The Army also moved this month to take a harder look at keeping first-term soldiers in the force who might otherwise have been separated for problems such as drug abuse, poor conduct, or for failure to meet fitness or body-fat standards.

    The change grew from concern in the Army over a rise in the number of soldiers departing before serving a full three-year term -- from 14.2 percent last year to nearly 15 percent in the first half of this year. To reduce that attrition, the Army put higher-level officers in charge of such separation decisions, to ensure that soldiers were not let go unnecessarily.

  15. #15
    3Vandoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    "inactive reserve", is that another name for cannon fodder?
    No, people who once served but are fed up with the military but are ****ed to serve in that shit for 3-7 years!

  16. #16
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    If we go into Iran the draft will be called up, there is just no way around it. A conflict with North Korea would also force us into a draft. It's fortunate that we do have the worlds most powerful military to serve under if ever called up.

  17. #17
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    Hmmm maybe WW3 will be the world against the US!

    ah ****, im 29.21 min away from the states

    im always screwed

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    No, people who once served but are fed up with the military but are ****ed to serve in that shit for 3-7 years!
    Except for gays. The Republicans were nice enough to let us sit around here, pursuing our careers and workout schedules and etc, and not have to be bothered with all that nonsense. Instead, y'all heterosexuals get to take up the slack, get your own butts shot off by Muslims . . .

    No need for us gays to go fight Bush's Oil Wars.

    That "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" BS is still in effect; all ya gotta do is "Tell," and that's your ticket out. And if you need someone to vouch for ya, well, you know where I am . . .

    -Tock

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Except for gays. The Republicans were nice enough to let us sit around here, pursuing our careers and workout schedules and etc, and not have to be bothered with all that nonsense. Instead, y'all heterosexuals get to take up the slack, get your own butts shot off by Muslims . . .

    No need for us gays to go fight Bush's Oil Wars.

    That "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" BS is still in effect; all ya gotta do is "Tell," and that's your ticket out. And if you need someone to vouch for ya, well, you know where I am . . .

    -Tock

    Actually it was proven than gay were in general better soldiers than hetero!

  20. #20
    Kropotkin is offline New Member
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    Draft bill has been REintroduced

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.02723:

    And I think it's already been covered but the recruting quota's for the regular army, army reserve and national guard are down by around 20 percent (except the regular army, which is down like ~14%). As well, I think about 15 soldiers have been killed this week alone. Doesn't look good to me.

  21. #21
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    LOL - once again

    FORIEGN LEGION

    seriously, the ranks would fill enormously - no need for a draft

  22. #22
    O.fO.shO is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    LOL - once again

    FORIEGN LEGION

    seriously, the ranks would fill enormously - no need for a draft

    i remember another empire falling like that .

  23. #23
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    Tock do not put out misinformation.


    Jun 13 2005

    By Donna Miles


    WASHINGTON -- Despite recruiting shortfalls for the active Army and all reserve components except the Air Force Reserve in May, defense officials say they will strive to fill the ranks with the highest-quality recruits possible and have no intention of supporting a draft.

    The Defense Department released May recruiting and retention statistics for all four services today, providing a departmentwide manpower picture.

    The Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force all met or exceeded their May recruiting goals, but the Army fell short by 25 percent. During May, the Army had hoped to recruit 6,700 new members but missed by mark by 1,661 recruits. This makes the fourth month in a row that the active duty Army has missed their recruiting goal.. The Navy enlisted 1,947 members in May; the Marine Corps, 1,904; and the Air Force, 1,049. zSB(3,3);if(!z336){var zIsb=gEI("adsb");if(zIsb){zIsb.style.display="inli ne";zIsb.style.height="0px";zIsb.style.width="0px" ;}var zIss=gEI("adss");if(zIss){zIss.style.display="inli ne";zIss.style.height="0px";zIss.style.width="0px" ;}}

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    to expand (my bold)

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army has slipped further behind its recruiting goals amid the Iraq war, figures released on Friday showed, as officials developed proposals to double cash bonuses and offer mortgage aid for enlisting.

    The Army hopes to raise the maximum cash bonus for new recruits to $40,000 and begin a pilot program to give up to $50,000 in home-mortgage assistance to people who volunteer for eight years of active-duty service, said Lt. Col. Thomas Collins, an Army spokesman.

    These would augment incentives already being offered to try to coax people into volunteering. The new proposals would need congressional approval, and Army Secretary Francis Harvey already has spoken to lawmakers, Collins said.

    The new Pentagon recruiting figures showed that two-thirds through the fiscal 2005 recruiting year, which ends Sept. 30, the regular Army was 17 percent behind its goal, the Army Reserve was 20 percent behind and the Army National Guard was 24 percent behind its end-of-May plans.

    The Army, which provides most of the U.S. ground troops in Iraq, had missed its fourth consecutive monthly recruiting goal in May, officials said earlier in the week. The Pentagon had delayed release of the detailed recruiting figures by more than a week for what it called extra scrutiny.

    Unlike the Army, the Marine Corps, with a smaller share of the Iraq ground troops, exceeded its May recruiting goal and was 2 percent ahead of its year-to-date target toward an annual goal of 39,150 recruits. The Navy and Air Force also were on target.

    The Pentagon said there have been 1,685 U.S. military deaths, mostly from the Army, since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003.

    'REALLY TOUGH FIGHT'

    Army officials have said potential recruits and their families have been wary of service during the Iraq war, and civilian job opportunities also are affecting recruiting.

    "We're having a really tough fight (to recruit) this year, and we're going to have an even tougher fight next year," said Army Recruiting Command spokesman Douglas Smith.

    The Army said in statement that summer months are easier for recruiting and that it remained "cautiously optimistic" about meeting the active-duty annual goal of 80,000 recruits. It did not offer similar optimism about goals for the part-time Guard and Reserve.

    An Army official said, "I think the Guard is not going to make it" -- meaning it would miss its a second straight annual goal -- and that "I don't think that there's a whole lot of enthusiasm" that the Army Reserve will meet its annual goal. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the Army had not yet made public projections on Guard and Reserve recruitment.

    Both the regular Army and Army Reserve last missed an annual recruiting goal in 1999.

    In May, the regular Army lowered its recruiting goal to 6,700 and still missed it by 25 percent, while the Reserve missed its monthly goal by 18 percent and the Guard fell 29 percent short.

    The Pentagon has relied heavily on part-time soldiers from the Army Guard and Reserve to maintain troop levels in Iraq, where America has 139,000 troops, and Afghanistan, where it has 19,000.

    The Pentagon said the Navy Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve and Air National Guard all missed their May recruiting goals.

    The Iraq war represents the first test of the all-volunteer military in a protracted war. Some defense analysts have argued the United States may have to consider reviving the draft, abolished in 1973 during the tumult of the Vietnam War.
    Last edited by Kropotkin; 06-14-2005 at 04:31 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack
    Tock do not put out misinformation.

    During May, the Army had hoped to recruit 6,700 new members but missed by mark by 1,661 recruits. This makes the fourth month in a row that the active duty Army has missed their recruiting goal..
    What misinformation?
    -Tock

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    What misinformation?
    -Tock



    You tried to show that our military in general was not meeting its goals. 3 out of 4 branches are meeting(or higher) the goals they have projected. When you leave this out it is misinformation.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.fO.shO
    i remember another empire falling like that .
    which empire was that?... i hope your not going to say the Romans

    A Foriegn Legion would also solve the illegal immigrant crisis that America is having

  28. #28
    Tock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack
    You tried to show that our military in general was not meeting its goals. 3 out of 4 branches are meeting(or higher) the goals they have projected. When you leave this out it is misinformation.

    Isn't the Army part of the US Military? And hasn't the Army announced that it has not been meeting its recruitment goals?

    Seems to me that the military is having problems persuading enough schmucks to sign up, especially if they have to dig deeper in the bottom of the barrell for high-school dropouts, and offer higher ($50,000) enlistment bonuses.

    -Tock

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    Kropotkin is offline New Member
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    In my above article it stated that the army and national guard have the most people on the ground and therefore are the most needed troops for an occupation, so if they are down it is a bigger deal than if the air force or marines were not meeting their quotas. Besides that, this article states that the other services (navy, air force ect) are actually down.

    By Maxim Kniazkov in Washington
    The Daily Telegraph - Australia
    6-15-5

    (AFP) -- The United States would "have to face" a painful dilemma on restoring the military draft as rising casualties saw the number of volunteers dry up, a senator warned today.

    Joseph Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made the prediction after new data released by the Pentagon showed the US Army failing to meet its recruitment targets for four straight months.

    "We're going to have to face that question," he said on NBC's Meet the Press TV show when asked if it was realistic to expect restoration of the draft.

    "The truth of the matter is, it is going to become a subject, if, in fact, there's a 40 per cent shortfall in recruitment. It's just a reality," he said.

    The comment came after the Department of Defence announced the army had missed its recruiting goal for May by 1661 recruits, or 25 per cent. Similar losses have been reported by army officials every month since February.

    Experts said the latest figure was misleading because the army had quietly lowered its May recruitment target from 8050 to 6700 people. It has been suggested the real shortfall is closer to 40 per cent.

    Since October, the shortfall in recruits has been put at more than 8000 people, which amounts to the loss of about a modern brigade.

    The army, navy and marine corps reserves also fell short of their monthly goals by 18 per cent, six per cent and 12 per cent respectively, according to the latest figures.
    Recruitment at the Army National Guard was down 29 per cent, while the Air National Guard fell short 22 per cent.

    The United States abandoned the military draft in 1973, following mass protests during the Vietnam War, and switched to an all-volunteer force.

    Mandatory registration for the draft was suspended in 1975, but resumed in 1980 after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. About 13.5 million men are now registered with the US Government as potential draftees.

    During the 2004 election campaign, Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry repeatedly accused President George W. Bush of planning to re-instate "a back-door draft", charges the president vehemently denied.

    But while admitting that restoring the draft would be politically "very difficult," Senator Patrick Leahy, the ranking Democrat of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said something would have to be done because the situation with recruitment was not likely to improve.

    "If you think you have trouble getting recruits today, you're going to have far more trouble six months from now," he predicted on CBS's Face the Nation.

    "It is not going to get better. That's going to get worse."

    Republican Representative Curt Weldon called the recruitment shortfalls "troublesome" and "unacceptable".

    But he urged the military "to find ways to fix the current system" and to attract more recruits with the help of new incentives.

    Nearly 1900 US troops have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere since the beginning of the war on terror in the wake of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

  30. #30
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    they dont wanaaaaaa dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

  31. #31
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    What young American in their right mind would want to die in Iraq for a bunch of losers who can't even get along with each other?
    It's certainly not a security issue.......Bush is just keeping US in there to save face......wish he would wipe the banana creme pie out of his eyes and see the truth of our folly

  32. #32
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    what? fvck that, lets invade Iran!

  33. #33
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    Ephraim Halevy, the former chief of Israel's Mossad intelligence service and the current national security adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, says plans have been made for a substantial U.S. military presence in the Middle East lasting decades.

    "The U.S. campaign in Iraq was perceived [in the Middle East and Washington] as a signal of long-term American commitment to do whatever is required and to 'stay in the neighbourhood' for as long as needed," Halevy stated in a lengthy op-ed column in the April 24 issue of Ha'aretz.

    High-ranking U.S. policymakers have "raised the idea of establishing an American trusteeship regime in the areas of the Palestinian Authority, if it should turn out that the Palestinians are not ripe for self-rule. That arrangement would require an American operational military presence along Israel's border with the Palestinian territories."

    "Speaking in a semi-closed forum during a visit to Israel a few months ago," continued Halevy, "Bill Kristol, one of the most influential 'neocons' in the United States, noted in this connection that the American presence in Europe after World War II lasted for nearly 60 years. Israelis who are trying to promote a role for NATO in the region, in one form or another, are actually promoting a generation-long American presence."

    U.S. entanglement in the Middle East in the name of "democracy" has further destabilized the region and made more likely violent revolutions to occur, especially in countries such as Saudi Arabia.

    "In [an early April] visit to the United States," comments Halevy, "I was told by several well-informed observers that should one of the more severe scenarios come to pass, the United States will have no choice but to deepen its presence in the Middle East. To that end, it will have to renew the draft, to ensure that there are enough forces to deal with developing situations in countries like Saudi Arabia."

  34. #34
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    get ready USA guys no more beer and clubing for you, you are going to Iraq!!!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    get ready USA guys no more beer and clubing for you, you are going to Iraq!!!

    This is the stuff that drives me crazy. You just run around and talk smack. You have no idea if this is going to happen.

  36. #36
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    everything is pointing toward a new draft in USA.

  37. #37
    3Vandoo's Avatar
    3Vandoo is offline AR-Hall of Famer
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    Draft will never happen!

    it will be suicidal for the republican and the american people will make them feel for the next 20 years or so.

  38. #38
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    yea but Bush is the president of the republican party now and he will leave in 4 years he dont care about another presidency , so i think the congress might pass the draft , the senate will sign it then the vice president will sign it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    yea but Bush is the president of the republican party now and he will leave in 4 years he dont care about another presidency , so i think the congress might pass the draft , the senate will sign it then the vice president will sign it.

    Nah protest will be too enormous

  40. #40
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    American people are not like befor they wont protest, look now 6 out 10 Americans want their army pulled out from Iraq ( this was posted in usatoday) yet there are no protest or demos , the Americans now are to busy with their personal life, making money and find better jobs they dont have time, they changed a lot. Well yea maybe there will bo some demos made by the affected guys going the the draft but nothing more than that.

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