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  1. #1
    books555's Avatar
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    Tough question about Islam.

    Zoib, Caus, Milita, and any one else. I am going to post an arguement tonight or tomarrow that I believe the muslim has no logical answere for. I am not trying to attack any of you personally. I honestly am looking for a answere.

  2. #2
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    I cant wait.

    Why do you spell "answer" as "answere"?

    Is there a logical answer for that?

  3. #3
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    Yeah, it is a illogical spelling of a word in the english language.

  4. #4
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    If God is all loving, who was He loving before he created anything?

    -Allah means "the Divinity" in Arabic. A single God.

    -It takes two or more beings for love to exist. There is no way around this. Fellowship is required.

    -If Allah was not loving anything before He created anything, then He is not all loving.

    -If He was loving something, then that "something" must also be infinite.

    -Remember, God cannot change.

    -If He began to love, then He is not infinite (cant change)




    -Christianity: Unity in Diversity in the community in the trinity. There was always fellowship in the Godhead. The christian God did not need man to love. He created man to share his glory with man.

  5. #5
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    Another problem: Ravi Zacharias claims- Unity in diversity in the effect (Universe Uni-Verse) requires unity in Diversity in the first cause (God)

  6. #6
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    they are words

  7. #7
    books555's Avatar
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    good observation

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    good observation

    seriously, they are all words

    trinity, god, loving, love when they were invented as words by men, so before Love there were no love, or no word for a feeling or a word named love

    so like justice, freedom, words invented by men, do freedom really exist?
    Not sure, just look into the animal kingdom, even a bird cannot fly freely into other birds zone, then this is no freedom, then freedom is not natural.

    So God is also a word that us "men" invented to explain a higher being to concluded to things that we are not able to explain or refuse to. So another word.

    So now im gonna use two words sleep and bed, im going to sleep in my bed, then before these words, maybe they were magical things, ok im tired, off to dodo! later

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    -If He began to love, then He is not infinite (cant change)
    why does infinity exclude changeability.
    Didnt god change when he took the form of christ?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    -It takes two or more beings for love to exist. There is no way around this. Fellowship is required.

    Can I love myself? This isnt a serious answer, but I can love myself.

    I will reply later.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    seriously, they are all words

    trinity, god, loving, love when they were invented as words by men, so before Love there were no love, or no word for a feeling or a word named love

    so like justice, freedom, words invented by men, do freedom really exist?
    Not sure, just look into the animal kingdom, even a bird cannot fly freely into other birds zone, then this is no freedom, then freedom is not natural.
    Exactly.

    All these are is word games with words.

    It doesnt prove anything.

  12. #12
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    This is a serious philisophical problem that requires a answere.


    Infinite cannot change, there is no "time" to change. Change requires time.

  13. #13
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    The infinite needs nothing. God would NEED man or another being in order to love.

  14. #14
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    but time is a word, therefore time is an invention, invention is also a word that was invented. so time and infinite too they really exist?

  15. #15
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    "Time" is a reality, it exists. This reality is given a word to descibe it. Time came into existence in the so called "Big Bang"

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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    "Time" is a reality, it exists. This reality is given a word to descibe it. Time came into existence in the so called "Big Bang"

    reality is also a word, as with time, then describe time? the process of evolution into the future? then what is future!

    ah headache now

  17. #17
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    It is hard to give a good definition of time.

    Word: A sound or a combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning and may consist of a single morpheme or of a combination of morphemes.

    You are arguing in a circle Vandoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN

    All these are is word games with words.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein said that all philosphy is word games....

    I would say to you, however, that Books555 questions do not deserve your thought or an "answere."

  19. #19
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    -Ludwig Wittgenstein used philosphy to make that statement. His statement is self defeating. That statement is rediculous.

    -Please clarify your second part.

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    Wittgenstein's Philosophy is a ladder you throw away once you reach the top.
    I guess you haven't.

    Try reading Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, and anything by Anthony Kenny (Kenney?) on Wittgenstein. Then come back and talk.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    This is a serious philisophical problem that requires a answere.


    Infinite cannot change, there is no "time" to change. Change requires time.
    didnt god change when he took the form of man.

    Infinity is just something that goes on for ever so there is a infinite ammount of time/place for change.

    I have a hard time understanding your idea of infinity.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    It is hard to give a good definition of time.

    Word: A sound or a combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning and may consist of a single morpheme or of a combination of morphemes.

    You are arguing in a circle Vandoo.
    yes because a circle is infinite, the universe is infinite so a circle, perfection is also a circle, so arguing on the basic of everything is arguing in circle

    think about it deeply

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    yes because a circle is infinite, the universe is infinite so a circle, perfection is also a circle, so arguing on the basic of everything is arguing in circle

    think about it deeply

    No vandoo, the universe is not infinite. I dont know why you are arguing this.

  24. #24
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    He's not. He's making fun of you.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    He's not. He's making fun of you.

    that also I can argue

    cheerios laddies

  26. #26
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    u think to have love in the world it must only exist within 2 people???
    gees...............
    u got long way to go.........................

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by collar
    u think to have love in the world it must only exist within 2 people???
    gees...............
    u got long way to go.........................

    A man can only love himself?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Wittgenstein's Philosophy is a ladder you throw away once you reach the top.
    I guess you haven't.

    Try reading Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, and anything by Anthony Kenny (Kenney?) on Wittgenstein. Then come back and talk.


    You are full of it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by collar
    u think to have love in the world it must only exist within 2 people???
    gees...............
    u got long way to go.........................


    You obviously dont understand. I didnt think this up out of thin air.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    He's not. He's making fun of you.

    #19 makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.

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    YEah....as if you even knew who Wittegnstein was before I mentioned him....

    Why don't you cut and paste a bunch of stuff you found on the 'net about him now, to "prove" you know about him...

    There's always one kid like you in philosophy classes...who doesn't grasp any of the arguments, and has everyone nodding their heads in disapproval...you're the kid the teacher doesn't call on after the second week, because it's a waste of class time....

    Every class has one....
    Ever been in a class without one of those kids, Books?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    YEah....as if you even knew who Wittegnstein was before I mentioned him....

    Why don't you cut and paste a bunch of stuff you found on the 'net about him now, to "prove" you know about him...

    There's always one kid like you in philosophy classes...who doesn't grasp any of the arguments, and has everyone nodding their heads in disapproval...you're the kid the teacher doesn't call on after the second week, because it's a waste of class time....

    Every class has one....
    Ever been in a class without one of those kids, Books?


    Yeah I know alot of people who act like they are experts in feilds they are not to protect there reputation.

    -Does it matter if I knew who Wittegnstein, my point was "his statement is self defeatin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Yeah I know alot of people who act like they are experts in feilds they are not to protect there reputation.
    For example?

  34. #34
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    Dont tell me I dont grasp arguements, I noticed the problem with Wittegnstein statement immediatly, you were clueless.

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    You got me again with your superior grasp of philosophy. I can only wonder why Anthony Kenney and the rest of the philosophical world considers Wittgenstein one of the most important figures in the last hundred years. You ought to let everyone in on your crushing insight to him.

  36. #36
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    Interesting, but Wittgenstein made a mistake.

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    Most agree that he hasn't. Read his book...read books on him by Kenney....and then tell me if you still think so.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    -It takes two or more beings for love to exist. There is no way around this. Fellowship is required.
    Your whole forumla is flawed.

    You like your usual self, avoided my suggestion.

    Can a person love himself?

    If he can love himself then, "love" the word, can exist, even if he is the only person on the face of the earth.

    Remember what your Bible says -

    "Then God said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.." (Genesis 1:26)

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    God would NEED man or another being in order to love.
    You always say GOD cannot do certain things. Your are wrong. GOD can do anything.

    Please ask a person that knows about Christianity if GOD has his limits.l

  40. #40
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    Its sad to see Christianity going to the way of Polytheism.

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