07-04-2005, 11:08 AM #1
why murderes,rapists,thieves are innocent
lets assume that the koran is true
if that thing is true then..... the murderes,rapists,theieves,etc... criminals in general are innocent.. because god created them like that...genetically some people have more tendencies to cheat , shoplift ,kill ,aggresion , alcoholism, drug abuse , lets not forget the enviorment the person was raised in and the people h/she was learning from.......so if god really created humans then he created them like that...so theyre all innocent...and its not their fault that they are like this..JMO
Last edited by IronFreakX; 07-04-2005 at 11:13 AM.
07-04-2005, 12:16 PM #2
It depends on how society deems them, not how a certain religion deems them. If society deems them a criminal, then they are a criminal. If the Koran says they are innocent, but society says they are guilty, guess what, they are guilty. Laws are instituted by society, sometimes they correlate with the dominant religion of the society, other times they don't.
07-04-2005, 12:31 PM #3Originally Posted by SprinterOne
07-04-2005, 12:35 PM #4
God gave us free will and the right to choose what path in life we want to walk on.
So all those people are not innocent and God is not responsible for your action or anybody's elses action.
I will post this again since I have it in memory
This is profound. Thought you'd like it........
Did God create everything that exists? Does evil exist? Did God create evil?
The University professor challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?"
A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"
"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes sir", the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil."
The student became quiet before such an answer.
The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that God was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you question professor?"
"Of course", replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"
"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"
The students snickered at the young man's question.
The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460? F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."
The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"
The professor responded, "Of course it does."
The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either.
Darkness is, in reality, the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color.
You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
The young man's name -- Albert Einstein
07-04-2005, 12:43 PM #5Originally Posted by abstrack
God gave us free will and the right to choose what path in life we want to walk on.
So all those people are not innocent and God is not responsible for your action or anybody's elses action.
did god give mentally insane people the choice? did god give ne1 a choice? again no.......he created us like that...think im bullshitting? check out the people that shoplift they have it in their genes...when they take certain drugs their urge for shoplifting lessens...
this is ofcourse assuming god created us which did not happen....so since every1 is saying yeah he did blah crap.etc...
then every1 should use that and do wutever they want....because they are not responsible...just like some people were born with no arms did they have a choice ? no like they dont have a choice to decide their mind thinks in a way and they think that what theyre doing is rite.........
07-04-2005, 01:30 PM #6
god created everyone with the ability to choose which path to take when the fork in the road pops up.(with the exception of a few mentally challenged people) i think it's wrong to think that your gonna try to take advantage of god or justify doing something bad by saying god created u this way.I went through life like that thinking god made me like this and if he is a forgiving god then he will forgive me for this wrongdoing.I think manning up and realizing that he set rules and regulations for one reason YOUR OWN GOOD!i'm not saying every should be perfect but just think how much better every day life would be if people would start thinking more positively not just for themselves but for everyone. it's sounds gay but the golden rule bro!!i could sit here all day talking about this but i'm downloading music.(not gospel)lol
just my 2cc
07-04-2005, 01:41 PM #7Originally Posted by mike132
well neway..every1 should take responsibilty for their own actions......there is no ohhh but i was blah or satan told me to do it and all that crap....u kill u die , u rape u die too , etc...that my opinion
but if we agree that god created us then.....we can do wutever we want kill, steal , cheat , rape , wutever who cares cuz god created us and he knows how we will end up like........and he made us do this for a reason....
It sickens me how people say they love god and believe in islam , chiristianity , etc... the so called "holy" religions....
and some of those people are reall smart i just wanna garb em shake em so hard and shout at them get it out of ur system wake up..WAKE UP!!!!!
07-04-2005, 01:53 PM #8Originally Posted by IronFreakX
07-04-2005, 02:13 PM #9
is that realy a true einstein quote? As far as I know einstein didnt belivein in any religion but Im not to knowelgable about him.
if god is all knowing then he knew some of his creations would do evil things. if he is all powerfull he could make it so no human would choose to do evil because deep down they wouldnt want it. It wouldnt limit free will.
07-04-2005, 02:21 PM #10
where the hell in quran does it say that murderers and thieves are innocent?!!
if IronFreakX can prove this, i'm willing to pay him $1000.00 one thousand US dollars.
07-04-2005, 02:21 PM #11Originally Posted by mike132
when murderers say the devil made me do it...or he made me do it he was annoying me....wtf.....or when fat people say ohhh its my thyroid or when fat chicks cry cuz they cant lose weight and look @ their diet what are they eatin???crap!!!!!
if we agree that the god stated in islam did create us the we are free to do wutever..........i dont
i agree that every1 should take responsibility for their own actions but if any of u believe that god created humans then...go crazy !!!!
cuz its gods fault.....
god & religion........
07-04-2005, 02:22 PM #12
if qouran said so, it would not have a hand cut or head cut punishment for thieves and murderers smarty. which are the main laws of islam.
07-04-2005, 02:26 PM #13Originally Posted by IronFreakX
satanism DOES NOT exist, only witch craft does and i doubt that ppl still know how to practice it.
propably u have one of those stupid books by Anton Zsandor Lavey that called the Satanic Bible ($5.99) and keep on braging about being a Satanist just to get attention. that's wt it's all about.
07-04-2005, 02:36 PM #14Originally Posted by smokethedays
-true mohamed wrote in the koran that murderers should be killed
-he also wrote that thieves should have their hands cut off....so if god allowed a child to be born in poverty.....with no food money or parents etc...and no shelters...which i see alot here...if they steal they should have their hands cut off? isnt it god(mohamed) who controls the world...why would he allow a child to have his hands cut off in a situation that it (god/mohamed) created???? but were are not here to discuss the cruelty of mohamed(god) actually i am but in a different way...neway......
bout the FACT that the people are innocent.....if we assume there really is a muslim god ie mohamed which does not exist....
-god created humans riiiiitee
-god knows everything
-god created certain people in enviorments where they are raised in poverty , drugs , thieves community so they will resort to that because they have learned that since they were young......
-murderers kill people for a reason...they think its rite! and who created their minds which think like that???????? GOD again riiitee....so who do u blame the creator or the creation..........
all the above is correct if u really believe that the muslim god does exist.....which i dont..........doesnt the muslim god see everything ....then i say this....if he does exist show urself...if that thing does show ill kill it.....yeah hate me STD (Smoke The Days) hahaha funny abreviation
07-04-2005, 02:42 PM #15Originally Posted by smokethedays
in a way ur rite satanism doesnt exist cuz it can mean one thing to me and another thing to a million different people....nope i dont have ne of laveys books i have the ebook tho.........
one more thing u used to "ACT" like that....ur called a poser.....i dont act to get attention...i dont act period this is me....if u have to "ACT" in a certain way to get attention...walking naked in the street on a friday/saturday nite will attract alot more attention than "ACTING" like ur a satanist.....
07-04-2005, 02:44 PM #16
ok, u don't believe in Mohamad that's ofcourse ur choice but until u explain to me how did Mohamed know the molecular # for IRON and how did he know that a star will explode in space in the year 2001 and he was able to describe it while the scientists called it the same name it has in quran not knowing that. so until then u r full of ignorance.
07-04-2005, 02:54 PM #17
WOW thats amazing!!!! let me Bow down and stare in wonder......
STD if u can read arabic....read this....
07-04-2005, 03:02 PM #18
if all those miracles do exist why did they cease to exist in a time.... according to mohamed... where we will need it most......
cmon , a dude splitting the sea in half....a bird resurcted , etc...
so what ? even if they are true...y should we bow to it (god)??
Just what we all need , More lies...
07-04-2005, 03:05 PM #19
that link about the things "described" in the quran. I bet one could pic upp a stephen king book and by interpreting it the right way can find 100 miracles and predictions in it to.
that verse about the torn apart sky doesnt mean squat diddly.
They should have called it the "Oily Red Rose Nebula." As the Quran states in Surat ar-Rahman (chapter 55), "When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose, like ointment." How would the Quran know 1,400 years ago that when a star explodes, it is like a oily red rose?
07-04-2005, 03:07 PM #20Originally Posted by johan
07-04-2005, 03:11 PM #21Originally Posted by smokethedays
and im guessing STD's site got
but thats my opinion and others might see it differently
07-04-2005, 03:23 PM #22
There are tons of people who are born into poverty and still do not steal. There are tons fo people who are born into poverty and rise above it all and make a life better for themselves. It is a persons job to rise above the matters at hand and provide for the life that they want. Stealing and murdering is just an easy way out or an excuse to do harmto other people (rich or poor).
Once again.. We all have a free will to do what is right.
07-04-2005, 03:38 PM #23Originally Posted by abstrack
by selling the remaining body parts???
07-04-2005, 04:51 PM #24Originally Posted by smokethedays
Hell even nostradamous predicts better things then that.
If I dig through buddhist scriptures I can find lots of things that I can link to phenomenons in space. With the wasteness of space you can find pretty much anything you want if you dig deep enough. There are lots of other colors besides red for nebulas. Im not even sure that nebula is red irl or if that is just a arthistic representation(all the hubbel pics are black and white, physicists color them afterwards before publishing them. Sometimes they color them in the real colors by a spectral analysis, sometimes they make say infra red into red ect so many many pics of astronomical phenomenons wont look closely the same if you where there to se it).
If the quran had said a blue flower blahblah then that sites author would have dug upp the pic of a blue nebula.
Soon someone will claim the quran predicted black holes and the theory of relativity 1500 years before einstein was born
Im guessing the whole HUGO project was a waste. Maby we can find the entire human genome in the pages of the quran to right 25 000 genes should be a piece of cake to interpret by twisting the letters and verses in the right ways
07-04-2005, 04:54 PM #25
IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH I have found swolecats source of diet info
Quran verse 66:66
Thou shalt keep fats and carbohydrates separated, otherwise thou god shall punish you with extreme obesity and uggliness
Its all there man
07-04-2005, 04:57 PM #26
Not trying to offend anyone, but interpeting those things by counting verses ect is realy trying to find things that doesnt exist.
If I take the numbers of hairs in my asscrack and divide it by how many fingers I have times the ammount of farts I let out in a year I get the distance from the earth to the moon I guess god designed my body that way so I could calculate that distance. Hes one clever son of a bitch aint he.
07-04-2005, 05:06 PM #27
07-04-2005, 07:02 PM #28Originally Posted by IronFreakX
If you want to look at it a bit more heavily - from a philosophical stand point, no one else exists except for you. So really, this is all a test, and god is watching you!!!
07-04-2005, 07:20 PM #29Originally Posted by IronFreakX
yes, tons of people. statistically speaking most people with a college degree are rich or do have good job. Comparing their wages on a world wide scale most americans are by far "rich" compared to the rest of the world.
My god created a kid with only one leg who grew up to be a wrestling champ.
My God created a man with only legs. This man learn to drive, eat, live day to day using his feet. He had a wife, he had children, he had what he wanted from life and from God gave him.
With technology on the rise there a lots of gagets being made for those with missing limbs. Guess who gave those creators the mind power to creat those wonderful gagets for others with disabilities?
07-04-2005, 07:59 PM #30Originally Posted by abstrack
07-04-2005, 08:09 PM #31Originally Posted by mike132
why are you even quoting me?
07-04-2005, 08:21 PM #32Originally Posted by IronFreakX
now we get urges and test that come along in our life.
then its up to u what u choose
i believe its all temptation from evil we either follow god or we do evil
the ones that kill etc choose evil....... good luck to them
i cant judge what they will get in after life cause i aint god ...
but thats the path they have chosen...
so to answer ur question or whateva ur talking bout yes we do all start equal and innocent.
its what u choose .........
07-05-2005, 02:36 AM #33Originally Posted by collar
u believe it's all temptation from evil??? and who is evil the devil? so satan made u do it then..
people need to take responsibility of their own actions.....not blame the devil , satan , evil , negative force , temptation , big boobs , etc.....
thats how religions work......... on hypocrital self deceit and lies...
and by following them....and believeing in them u are free to kill , murder , rape , steal , etc......because
1-satan is tempting you
2-god created satan
3-god created u and ur brain...so it knows how u think and how ur brain chemistry works.........and it knows who is going to do evil.. and who isnt....because it created them like that
07-05-2005, 10:47 AM #34Originally Posted by IronFreakX
After committing our original sin (Appendix 7), God gave us a chance to denounce our crime and accept His absolute authority (33:72). But we decided that we wanted to see a demonstration of Satan's competence as a god. Many people protest the fact that God has created them, to put them through this gruesome test. Obviously, such people are not aware that  they have committed a horrendous crime (Introduction & Appendix 7), and  that they were given a chance to denounce their crime and redeem themslves, but they chose to go through the test.
We learn from 57:22 that our lives, along with everything else around us, are pre-recorded on something like a videotape. God fully knows what kind of decision each of us is destined to make; He knows which of us are going to Heaven and which are going to Hell. Even before we were born into this world, God knew which souls are good and which souls are evil. As far as God's omniscience is concerned, we can imagine a stamp on everyone's forehead that says "Heaven" or "Hell." Yet, as far as we are concerned, we are totally free to side with God's absolute authority, or Satan's polytheistic views. Predestination, therefore, is a fact as far as God is concerned, not as far as we are concerned.
This understanding explains the numerous verses stating that "God guides whomever He wills, and misleads whomever He wills." Based on His knowledge, God assigns our souls to the circumstances that we deserve. When God said to the angels, "I know what you do not know" (2:30), this meant that some of us deserved a chance to redeem ourselves. One example of God's guidance for those who deserve guidance is found in 21:51: "We granted Abraham his guidance, for we were fully aware of him." In other words, God knew that Abraham was a good soul who deserved to be guided, and God granted him his guidance and understanding. Another good example is stated in 12:24. Joseph fell for the Egyptian nobleman's wife, and almost committed adultery "if it were not that he saw a sign from his Lord." God teaches us in 12:24 that He "diverted evil and sin from Joseph, for he was one of My devoted worshipers." Was it Joseph who controlled his lust? Or, was it God's protection from sin that rendered him chaste? Such is predestination.
07-05-2005, 11:05 AM #35Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
2-if he knew before we were born into this world then y did he create us then?
3-u just proved my point....evil souls and good souls so people are born like that , they are created by god like that so they are not to be blamed prisons should be destroyed then.....because who should u blame the creator or the creation...??
4-if every1 already has a stamp then they should do wutever they want cuz its already pre-determined.....which is not true because everything u do or dont do affects ur future it is not written or nething....
i say on that
again what i wrote is true IF people believe in the muslim god which is fake..muhamed=god & god=mohamed there is no god
07-05-2005, 04:05 PM #36Originally Posted by johan
print sum( [ ord(x) for x in 'HOLYBIBLE' ] )
07-05-2005, 04:23 PM #37
if u count all the fingers in one hand and one finger in another hand u get 6 fingers
if u count them 3 times u get.......6 6 6
when u reverse god...its dog....considense?
07-05-2005, 04:37 PM #38Originally Posted by IronFreakX
My example is truely a freak coincidence.
07-05-2005, 04:43 PM #39
yeaaahhhhh...its freaky...you whats even freakier.....I SEE DEAD PEOPLE!!!!
just messin with ya...
07-05-2005, 07:00 PM #40Originally Posted by IronFreakX
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