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  1. #1
    MilitiaGuy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Very Important:Jews Against Zionism, How Judaism Condems the Zionist State

    The Following is from http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

    Not All Jews Are Zionists
    Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.

    10,000 Torah-True Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews demonstrated in front of the Israeli Consulate, New York City on 28 April, 2005 to protest Zionist brutality during a series of stormy demonstrations against the desecration of ancient Jewish graves near Kibbutz Regavim, Israel which resulted in the arrest of prominent Rabbis and the brutal stabbing of a picketing student by a security guard on April 17, 2005.




    Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta.

    There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate.

    No one has had to create any antagonism between our Torah and Zionism because such antagonism exists by virtue of the essence of Judaism itself, which can never tolerate the heresy of Zionism.

    Zionism is wrong from the Torah viewpoint, not because many of its adherents are lax in practice or even anti-religious, but because its fundamental principle conflicts with the Torah.

    Unfortunately, due to many undesirable factors, the view of Torah-true Jewry has been concealed from the general public.

    We, the staff at www.jewsnotzionists.org are delighted that with the advance in media technology a substantial benefit to researchers, students, and the general public has been made available. We are elated at the advantage which the internet provides for the presentation of and accessibility to a position so widely held yet so deliberately ignored by many a Zionist-inclined medium.

    It is our hope that the information presented on this site will be of benefit to all and that we soon merit the peaceful dismantlement of the so-called "State of Israel" and that Jewish-Muslim brotherhood be restored as prior to the arrival of the Zionist scheme on the global scene.

    WHY IS WORLD JEWRY OPPOSED TO THE ZIONIST STATE

    1) What is "The people of Israel" ?
    -The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
    -It has its own particular, essential, nature.
    -The Torah is the source of its essential nature.
    -Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.
    -Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.
    -The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.
    -Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

    2) What is Zionism ?
    -Zionism is a new thing.
    -It has only existed for a century.
    -Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.
    - a materialistic worldly nation.
    -Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.
    -Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
    - This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

    3) The People of Israel Oppose This For 4 Reasons
    FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

    However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

    However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

    SECOND - Because of all of this and other reasons Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed be He, in His Glory and Essence redeems us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One, blessed be He, has warned us that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

    THIRD - Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel, is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel are required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the Congregation of Israel.

    FOURTH - Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah, they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power, from fulfilling the commands of the Torah. They do this both with force and with trickery. Their claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight will all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

    4) The Zionists claim that they are the savers of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things.
    FIRST - If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel as in the period of the Zionists. And it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

    SECOND - It is openly stated in the books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did. They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and then helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See books Perfidy, Min Ha Meitsor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today, they incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d Forbid). Weitzman said, The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant (May we be spared).

    THIRD - We see that most of the world Jewry, lives in security under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist state. Whereas many people have left the Zionist state to live under better conditions in other lands.

    FOURTH - The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate too their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

    FIFTH - Because nobody wants the Zionists to "Save them". The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits. And even then very few people respond.

    SIXTH - The Zionist state is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry lives in peace and security. (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

    SEVENTH - The Zionist state could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist state.

    EIGHTH - The Zionist state is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

    NINTH - The Zionist state persecutes all Jews who are loyal to their faith.

    TENTH - They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

    ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

    TWELFTH - Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah. And the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost. It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.



    5. Even though there are observant Jews and Rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.
    - The people of Israel has existed for thousands of years.
    - It has its own particular, essential, nature.
    - The Torah is the source of its essential nature.
    - Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.
    - Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.
    - The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.
    - Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.
    - They make it look like all Jewry and their Rabbis are
    Zionists, but this is false propaganda.
    - The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious
    Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American News media.
    - The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against
    them.
    - That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.
    - Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.



    6) We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.
    1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. And in every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.


    2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.


    3) The founders of Zionism where all atheists who denied the Torah. And all the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.


    However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their faith. They are the strongest of the strong. Because of their strength the Creator gives them. Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure. Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force. With fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator. Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist state will cease to exist.


    4) It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because the entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that Name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.


    5) Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. And the truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one are three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.


    6) Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that state is a complete falsification. The people of Israel have nothing to do with the state. Zionism and its state have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.

    Other Jewish Web-Sites against Zionisam

    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html
    http://www.nkusa.org/
    http://www.realnews247.com/spec_rpt_...st_zionism.htm
    http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
    http://www.petitiononline.com/JvO1/
    http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-30.htm
    http://www.jatonyc.org/UNresolutions.html
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/je...t_zionism.html
    http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Demo...ril2805nyc.cfm
    http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/jews.html
    http://www.jao.org.au/
    http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-3...to-israel.html
    http://www.jatonyc.org/hadas.htm
    http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0672.htm

    There are hundreds more web sites, just search for "Jews Against Israel" in google.

    There was also and incident where Jews were Protesting Against Isreal In New York. About 10,000 Jews participated, but the event was IGNORED BY ALL WESTERN MEDIA, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL CONTROLLED BY THE ZIONISTS. Here is the article:
    http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Demo...ril2805nyc.cfm


    ...ouch..thats got to Hurt..when the truth finally comes out, that the majority of Jews actually oppose Israel, and consider it against the whole Jewsish concept of living in the state of Diaspora, waiting for the return of the messiah. The trith is that the Zionists olny appear to represent the Jews beacuse they are the ones controlling the powerful governemts, media and institutions of the world, so they can control what is heard and what isnt. But through their terrorism, genocide, and illegal occupation of Arab land, they have spurred the good Jews of the world to come out and defend Judaism against the evil idiology of Zionism.

    And so it begins, inch by inch, step by step, the relovution is on the way....

    The following was taken from http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
    Last edited by MilitiaGuy; 07-25-2005 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    You can find the same thing if you type in Islams against terrorism... Listen, do you even know if these sites are really ran by those who practice judaism? The one thing I would like to point out is Israel as a state, those who are born there since 68' would be considered children of that state. Again not all Israelites are Zionists...

  3. #3
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    Zionist propaganda pure and simple. Barra to that!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    You can find the same thing if you type in Islams against terrorism... Listen, do you even know if these sites are really ran by those who practice judaism? The one thing I would like to point out is Israel as a state, those who are born there since 68' would be considered children of that state. Again not all Israelites are Zionists...

    1. There is no comparison between terrorism and Zionism

    2. These ultra Orthodox Jews are called "Neturey Karta" and the reason they don't support the State of Israel is because acording to their beliefs the state can only be established after the coming of the Messaya and when it's established it should be a monarchy.

    3. The Muslims here have started to recycle. I find it flattering that they are desperately trying to find issued that involve Israel to talk about, even at the cost of creating "breaking news" headlines with old stuff that was even discussed here more than once, but on the other hand it's getting boring....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kis55
    Zionist propaganda pure and simple. Barra to that!!
    Hey thats my expression!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    1. There is no comparison between terrorism and Zionism

    2. These ultra Orthodox Jews are called "Neturey Karta" and the reason they don't support the State of Israel is because acording to their beliefs the state can only be established after the coming of the Messaya and when it's established it should be a monarchy.

    3. The Muslims here have started to recycle. I find it flattering that they are desperately trying to find issued that involve Israel to talk about, even at the cost of creating "breaking news" headlines with old stuff that was even discussed here more than once, but on the other hand it's getting boring....
    My point was there are separate factions within the muslim as well as the jewish communities of the world.

    and your point #1, can be said that is a frame of mind or how someone interperates an action or idea.
    Last edited by Mesomorphyl; 07-25-2005 at 11:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    My point was there are separate factions within the muslim as well as the jewish communities of the world.

    and your point #1, can be said that is a frame of mind or how someone interperates an action or idea.

    No. There is no interpertation on what Zioinsm is. Read about it and you'll see.

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    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    No. There is no interpertation on what Zioinsm is. Read about it and you'll see.
    Wow, that seems fascist. Should I just read everything and the links above? They make it sound like you do, there is no interpertation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Wow, that seems fascist. Should I just read everything and the links above? They make it sound like you do, there is no interpertation...

    Have you read about Zionism? Do you know what it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    Have you read about Zionism? Do you know what it is?
    Yes, and I do not totally agree or disagree with Zionism as of now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Yes, and I do not totally agree or disagree with Zionism as of now.

    What elements that can be compared with terrorism have you found in it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    Have you read about Zionism? Do you know what it is?

    Its the planet next to Krypton! Zion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    What elements that can be compared with terrorism have you found in it?
    Again, just one more time... It was to show that retrieving information which would show a derogatory stance on an opinion given by someone of your own religion. How many zionist are not jewish, really.

    Muslims against terrorism and extremism link to another thread that is just to show some muslims that terrorism is frowned upon, yet alot still think it rebeling against oppression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Again, just one more time... It was to show that retrieving information which would show a derogatory stance on an opinion given by someone of your own religion. How many zionist are not jewish, really.
    The definition of Zionism is a fixed one. there are no two different versions or definitions. I for one am Jewish, I am Israeli, but I do not consider myself Zionist. There are countless thousands of Christians both in Israel and abroad who do subscribe to the Zionist ideology.
    Last edited by singern; 07-25-2005 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    I for one am Jewish, I am Israeli, but I do not consider myself Zionist. There are countless thousands of Christians both in Israel and abroad who do subscribe to the Zionist ideology.
    I am a christian but I do not subscribe to Zionist, Communist, or Terranical ideology. I am not implying anything other than it is an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    The definition of Zionism is a fixed one. there are no two different versions or definitions..
    Right, but does every jew or christian agree with zionism, no. You are correct there are not two versions or definitions, and that goes for terrorism as well. Either it is or is not. You should go back and read from the beginning of this thread to get my drift(read it all) as I think Rak_Ani has even taken some of what I said out of context. I hope this as well as the re-read will clear things up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Again, just one more time... It was to show that retrieving information which would show a derogatory stance on an opinion given by someone of your own religion. How many zionist are not jewish, really.

    Muslims against terrorism and extremism link to another thread that is just to show some muslims that terrorism is frowned upon, yet alot still think it rebeling against oppression.

    Sorry, I didn't understand what you wrote. Can you rephrase it please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    Sorry, I didn't understand what you wrote. Can you rephrase it please?
    This makes twice today. You will get a pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    This makes twice today. You will get a pm.

    Ok, then tell me about the first one too....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I am a christian but I do not subscribe to Zionist, Communist, or Terranical ideology. I am not implying anything other than it is an idea.

    Correct, but there are some here who ignorantly compare the idea of Zionism with the inhuman crime of terrorism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Correct, but there are some here who ignorantly compare the idea of Zionism with the inhuman crime of terrorism.
    I am not one of them, but the ones who do they are not terrorist but heros(sadly)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    Hey thats my expression!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    As a zionist mossad spy who controls everything, I simply stole the expression from you, just like the zionists "stole" the country of Palestine in 1948.

    Remember, in the early 1900's the country of Palestine was thriving, there wasn't a Jew..errrrr..I mean zionist....to be seen anywhere. The "palestinians" had set up a democratic government, and things were really going well. The land was thriving with agriculture, and the "palestinians" even voted in a president, by the name of Belaba Shebaba, or B.S. for short. He walked among the people, sipped mint tea with the masses, oversaw honor killings, and established the first elementary school dedicated soley to bus bombings. It was a gas, until..........

    Those pesky Jews...errrrrr....I mean zionists set up camp there and ruined everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kis55
    As a zionist mossad spy who controls everything, I simply stole the expression from you, just like the zionists "stole" the country of Palestine in 1948.

    Remember, in the early 1900's the country of Palestine was thriving, there wasn't a Jew..errrrr..I mean zionist....to be seen anywhere. The "palestinians" had set up a democratic government, and things were really going well. The land was thriving with agriculture, and the "palestinians" even voted in a president, by the name of Belaba Shebaba, or B.S. for short. He walked among the people, sipped mint tea with the masses, oversaw honor killings, and established the first elementary school dedicated soley to bus bombings. It was a gas, until..........

    Those pesky Jews...errrrrr....I mean zionists set up camp there and ruined everything.
    Ah those were the days, a simple time when children could strap on a bomb belt without fear of persecution. When men could beat there wife’s and still have time to smoke some hashish before falafel.

    Good times Good times.


    .

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    good guys, bad guys, gay,pedophiles...ect those zionist jews who came to palestine invaded and occupied the country and established the state of "israel" on the blood of the palestinians, thus "israel" should be wiped out from existance not even 1 m2 should be named "israel"!!

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    Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed be He, in His Glory and Essence redeems us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One, blessed be He, has warned us that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Ah those were the days, a simple time when children could strap on a bomb belt without fear of persecution. When men could beat there wife’s and still have time to smoke some hashish before falafel.
    There was no concept of modern day terrorism before the founding of Israel, there were no suicide bombings before the founding of Israel. There were no hotel bombs before the founding of Israel.

    The fathers of terror are the Jews in early Palestine. Ie - The King David hotel bombing and others. The Jews taught the Arabs about terrorism.

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    hmmm me and Bouncer would like to remind you that Irish republican invented the early 20th century modern terrorism

    thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    hmmm me and Bouncer would like to remind you that Irish republican invented the early 20th century modern terrorism

    thank you!
    What year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    What year?

    from 1840 to 1922

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
    from 1840 to 1922
    Any sources on this terror? I dont think Irish have it in them to invent this type of things, Jews yes, not Irish.

    I got a good Irish friend, hes full or rage with no intelligence.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Very Important:Jews Against Zionism, How Judaism Condems the Zionist State-rocksolid.jpg  
    Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 07-26-2005 at 06:40 PM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    There was no concept of modern day terrorism before the founding of Israel, there were no suicide bombings before the founding of Israel. There were no hotel bombs before the founding of Israel.

    The fathers of terror are the Jews in early Palestine. Ie - The King David hotel bombing and others. The Jews taught the Arabs about terrorism.

    errrr...I think you mean zionists right?


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    There was no concept of modern day terrorism before the founding of Israel, there were no suicide bombings before the founding of Israel. There were no hotel bombs before the founding of Israel.

    The fathers of terror are the Jews in early Palestine. Ie - The King David hotel bombing and others. The Jews taught the Arabs about terrorism.
    and..don't ever say the Jews did nothing for the muslims..this proves they at least taught them something.

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