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  1. #1
    inheritmylife's Avatar
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    Remembering the FBI-led massacre at Ruby Ridge

    FBI Siege of Ruby Ridge
    When federal agents set up Randy Weaver on minor weapons violations, Weaver refused to show up in court for the charge, instead holing up with his wife and four children in his mountain cabin on Ruby Ridge, forty miles south of the Canadian border.

    A Justice Department attorney got an arrest warrant for Weaver, despite knowing that a court official notified Weaver of an incorrect court date. (Weaver wasn't going to show up anyway.)

    For the charge of refusing to appear in court for a minor weapons violation, the government conducted a military siege of Ruby Ridge worthy of a small war. As reported by James Bovard in the January 10, 1995 Wall Street Journal, after Weaver's February 1991 missed court appearance,

    Federal agents then launched an elaborate 18-month surveillance of Mr. Weaver's cabin and land.

    David Niven, a defense lawyer involved in the subsequent court case, noted later: "The U.S. marshals called in military aerial reconnaissance and had photos studied by the Defense Mapping Agency. ... They had psychological profiles performed and installed $130,000 worth of solar-powered long-range spy cameras. They intercepted the Weavers' mail. They even knew the menstrual cycle of Weaver's teenage daughter, and planned an arrest scenario around it."

    On August 21, 1992, the siege began in earnest. Six U.S. marshals, armed and camouflaged, went onto Weaver's property to conduct undercover surveillance. When Weaver's dogs started barking, they shot one of them.

    Weaver's 25-year-old friend Kevin Harris and 14-year-old son Sammy and saw the dog die. Sammy Weaver fired his gun towards the agents as his dad yelled for him to come back to the cabin. "I'm coming, Dad," were Sammy Weaver's last words before he was shot in the back and killed by a U.S. marshal.

    Kevin Harris, witnessing the agents' killing of the dog and child, fired at the agents in self-defense, killing one of them.

    After the initial shootout, the Weavers and Harris retreated into their cabin, and a small army surrounded the area. Says Bovard: "the commander of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team was called in, and ordered federal agents to shoot any armed adult outside the Weaver cabin, regardless of whether that person was doing anything to threaten or menace federal agents. (Thanks to the surveillance, federal officials knew that the Weavers always carried guns when outside their cabin.)"

    Against a handful of rural Idahoans with shotguns, the U.S. arrayed four hundred federal agents with automatic weapons, sniper r***es and night vision scopes.

    On August 22, 1992, Randy Weaver went to see his son's body in the shack where it lay. He was shot and wounded from behind by FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi. As Weaver struggled back to his house, Horiuchi assassinated his wife Vicki as she stood in the doorway, holding their 10-month-old baby.

    Although the feds later claimed Vicki Weaver's killing was an accident, the New York Times reported in 1993 that an internal FBI report justified the killing by saying she put herself in danger. Horiuchi testified in court that he was an accurate shot at 200 yards.

    Everything about the federal government's actions in this case is sickening, but possibly the worst was their taunting of the Weaver family after Vicki Weaver's murder: "Good morning, Mrs. Weaver. We had pancakes for breakfast. What did you have?" That was one of the FBI's tactics revealed in court records, reported by Jerry Seper in the Washington Times in September 1993.

    After the initial shootout, the only shots fired were by federal agents. Eleven days after the shootout Randy Weaver surrendered.


    Sources: January 10, 1995 Wall Street Journal

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Before we had international terrorism, our evil government was inventing them right here in the Pee-Wee Socialist Republic of America.

    I wept when I read the part about Mrs. Horiuchi being shot with her son in her arms.

  2. #2
    3Vandoo's Avatar
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    Did his son shoot at US agents, then another one killed an agent?

    Seriously this is pathetic on both sides!

  3. #3
    skiing is offline Associate Member
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    What can a man do alone? He is only one man. There is strength in numbers and the victor writes the history. It is crappy when we can so easily be run over by those who are supposed to protect us.

    The only reason he held them off so long was because of the right to bear arms. The whole things makes you kinda feel small.

  4. #4
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    After reading your post, I did some research to find the other side of the story,
    Who knows who is absolutely right or wrong?

    I believe that some where in the middle lies the truth.




    Here's a different view of the Ruby Ridge standoff.

    Clinton R. Van Zandt: Ruby Ridge standoff tragic because Weaver didn't obey the law
    The initial confrontation at Ruby Ridge was caused by Mr. Weaver's failure to abide by the law. U.S. Marshals had attempted to serve a warrant on Mr. Weaver for violations of federal firearms law, but he refused to submit himself to the court. He threatened federal officers to the extent that they conducted periodic surveillance on his residence in an attempt to arrest him away from his house, so as not to provoke a firefight with the many armed occupants of that household.

    While conducting one of these surveillance operations, the Weavers detected the marshals, and the marshals ran from the area so as not to engage in a gun battle. Mr. Weaver, Kevin Harris, and Samuel Weaver eventually confronted the marshals at least 200 yards outside of Weaver's property line.
    Shots were fired, killing the Weavers' dog that attacked a deputy marshal, then killing Deputy Marshal William Degan and Samuel Weaver. It is noted, but never reported in the media, that Randy Weaver carried the same caliber of weapon that was believed to have killed Samuel Weaver. And Randy was firing at marshals while his son was in his line of fire.
    After the murder of the Deputy Marshal Degan and the death of Samuel Weaver, FBI agents were ordered to Ruby Ridge to deal with the situation. Within a short period of time Randy Weaver, Kevin Harris, and Weaver's daughter, all armed with r***es, were observed by agent Horiuchi to be creeping around the back side of their cabin to a position near a shed.

    When an FBI observation helicopter flew overhead, Randy Weaver was observed to raise his high-powered r***e as if to shoot at the helicopter. (Those readers who were in Vietnam will recall the number of U.S. helicopters brought down by similar small-arms fire). Agent Horiuchi fired one shot at Mr. Weaver, who fell and then ran for the cabin
    with his two armed companions.

    As the three stepped up onto the porch of the cabin, the front door flew open. The door was opened in such a manner that agent Horiuchi had no way of knowing that someone stood behind the door. When Randy Weaver, his daughter, and Mr. Harris moved through the door, Mr. Harris raised his r***e as if to fire a shot at the helicopter as he entered the cabin. Agent Horiuchi fired at Mr. Harris in defense of the agents in the helicopter.

    As Mr. Harris stepped behind the open door, Agent Horiuchi's bullet went through the door, unfortunately striking Vicki Weaver, who was armed with a handgun, before the bullet hit Mr. Harris. FBI agents did not know for days that

    Vicki Weaver had been hit at that time, and, in fact, continued negotiation efforts in an attempt to persuade her to prevail upon her husband to end this matter without further injury or death.

    The crime-scene investigation after Mr. Weaver's surrender revealed that Mrs. Weaver's infant child was probably not in her arms at the time she was shot, as is so popularly reported.

    Mr. Whitehead next attempts to blame the "rules of engagement"--in this case, special shooting guidelines that gave FBI agents the authority to fire at anyone armed with a weapon--for the unfortunate death of Vicki Weaver. Agent Horiuchi's actions were not based upon these extraordinary "rules of engagement," but were well within the normal guidelines covering the use of a weapon
    by an FBI agent.

    Those guidelines stipulate that when an agent believes his life is in imminent danger, or another person's life is in danger, that agent has the authority to fire his weapon. In this case, the shots were fired by agent Horiuchi to protect the lives of the agents in the helicopter.

    As I said to Mr. Weaver on "Rivera Live" last week, I am truly sorry for his loss and I know that the millions of dollars paid to him by the government can never replace his wife and son. But had he simply followed the law and fought his case in the courts instead of down the barrels of r***es, his family would be intact today--and another wife and family, that of slain Deputy Marshal Degan, would similarly not grieve their loss.

    Instead, we saw tragedy, and learn that death threats to agent Horiuchi and his family continue to this day.
    The FBI investigates 180,000 individual cases per year. It will make mistakes and--as in the case of suspected spy and former agent Robert Hansen--it will occasionally hire and trust the wrong people. But the FBI is not engaged in a conspiracy against the American people.
    http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2001/062001/06212001/316080
    Last edited by Bigen12; 08-04-2005 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #5
    inheritmylife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    After reading your post, I did some research to find the other side of the story,
    Who knows who is absolutely right or wrong?

    I believe that some where in the middle lies the truth.




    Here's a different view of the Ruby Ridge standoff.





    http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/F...6212001/316080

    In July 1993, a jury acquitted Randy Weaver of weapons and murder charges resulting from his set-up and the subsequent siege of his mountain cabin home by federal agents. Weaver's friend, Kevin Harris, was also found innocent.

    Harris, witnessing the agents' killing of Randy Weaver's dog and son during the siege, fired at the agents in self-defense. Harris killed one of the agents. At the trial, the prosecution claimed Harris fired first; the defense produced evidence that the agent had fired seven shots before he was shot himself.

    The federal government argued that sniper FBI Lon Horiuchi accidentally killed Weaver's wife Vicki. At the trial, however, Horiuchi testified that he was an accurate shot at 200 yards.

    Everything about the federal government's actions in this case is sickening, but possibly the worst was their taunting of the Weaver family after Vicki Weaver's murder: "Good morning, Mrs. Weaver. We had pancakes for breakfast. What did you have?" That was one of the FBI's tactics revealed in court records, reported by Jerry Seper in the Washington Times in September 1993.

    A jury found Weaver innocent of all serious charges, convicting him only on the original weapons charge. The jury also found Harris innocent, ruling his shooting of the marshal to be self-defense.

    Sources: January 10, 1995 Wall Street Journal, and the Justice Department report on Ruby Ridge

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

  6. #6
    inheritmylife's Avatar
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    The government sent their shock troops to murder these people. They fought back, and paid the ultimate price.

  7. #7
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    Arrogant pricks.......too bad the Iraqis didn't hang those assholes from a bridge.......

    Horiuchi must be proud........probably promoted to an Abu Gharib guard

  8. #8
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    But they love freedom by golly.......

  9. #9
    inheritmylife's Avatar
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    I'm sure if Horiuchi isn't dead, he will be soon.
    Last edited by inheritmylife; 08-04-2005 at 04:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inheritmylife
    The government sent their shock troops to murder these people. They fought back, and paid the ultimate price.
    They sent them to Waco also... And got the original warrant based on illegal uppers on ak-47's... anyone who knows about guns know they do not have upper and lowers... agents lied to a ignorant judge and obtained an illegal warrant. They were murdered. And all they had to do is tell the media it was another manson/jones type thing going on... Funny the masses bought that crap.

  11. #11
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    They hated freedom........and maybe there were some brown people in there too.....

    the new definition of freedom is:

    conformation and pacification

    I love that word when the military uses it.......pacification=bomb the shit out of everything until people are so scared they can not function as human beings

  12. #12
    Slick Arrado is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by inheritmylife
    FBI Siege of Ruby Ridge
    When federal agents set up Randy Weaver on minor weapons violations, Weaver refused to show up in court for the charge, instead holing up with his wife and four children in his mountain cabin on Ruby Ridge, forty miles south of the Canadian border.

    A Justice Department attorney got an arrest warrant for Weaver, despite knowing that a court official notified Weaver of an incorrect court date. (Weaver wasn't going to show up anyway.)

    For the charge of refusing to appear in court for a minor weapons violation, the government conducted a military siege of Ruby Ridge worthy of a small war. As reported by James Bovard in the January 10, 1995 Wall Street Journal, after Weaver's February 1991 missed court appearance,

    Federal agents then launched an elaborate 18-month surveillance of Mr. Weaver's cabin and land.

    David Niven, a defense lawyer involved in the subsequent court case, noted later: "The U.S. marshals called in military aerial reconnaissance and had photos studied by the Defense Mapping Agency. ... They had psychological profiles performed and installed $130,000 worth of solar-powered long-range spy cameras. They intercepted the Weavers' mail. They even knew the menstrual cycle of Weaver's teenage daughter, and planned an arrest scenario around it."

    On August 21, 1992, the siege began in earnest. Six U.S. marshals, armed and camouflaged, went onto Weaver's property to conduct undercover surveillance. When Weaver's dogs started barking, they shot one of them.

    Weaver's 25-year-old friend Kevin Harris and 14-year-old son Sammy and saw the dog die. Sammy Weaver fired his gun towards the agents as his dad yelled for him to come back to the cabin. "I'm coming, Dad," were Sammy Weaver's last words before he was shot in the back and killed by a U.S. marshal.

    Kevin Harris, witnessing the agents' killing of the dog and child, fired at the agents in self-defense, killing one of them.

    After the initial shootout, the Weavers and Harris retreated into their cabin, and a small army surrounded the area. Says Bovard: "the commander of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team was called in, and ordered federal agents to shoot any armed adult outside the Weaver cabin, regardless of whether that person was doing anything to threaten or menace federal agents. (Thanks to the surveillance, federal officials knew that the Weavers always carried guns when outside their cabin.)"

    Against a handful of rural Idahoans with shotguns, the U.S. arrayed four hundred federal agents with automatic weapons, sniper r***es and night vision scopes.

    On August 22, 1992, Randy Weaver went to see his son's body in the shack where it lay. He was shot and wounded from behind by FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi. As Weaver struggled back to his house, Horiuchi assassinated his wife Vicki as she stood in the doorway, holding their 10-month-old baby.

    Although the feds later claimed Vicki Weaver's killing was an accident, the New York Times reported in 1993 that an internal FBI report justified the killing by saying she put herself in danger. Horiuchi testified in court that he was an accurate shot at 200 yards.

    Everything about the federal government's actions in this case is sickening, but possibly the worst was their taunting of the Weaver family after Vicki Weaver's murder: "Good morning, Mrs. Weaver. We had pancakes for breakfast. What did you have?" That was one of the FBI's tactics revealed in court records, reported by Jerry Seper in the Washington Times in September 1993.

    After the initial shootout, the only shots fired were by federal agents. Eleven days after the shootout Randy Weaver surrendered.


    Sources: January 10, 1995 Wall Street Journal

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Before we had international terrorism, our evil government was inventing them right here in the Pee-Wee Socialist Republic of America.

    I wept when I read the part about Mrs. Horiuchi being shot with her son in her arms.

    Mrs. Horiuchi?



  13. #13
    inheritmylife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Arrado
    Mrs. Horiuchi?



    I'm glad you actually read it, and thank you for the correction: Mrs. Weaver.

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