Thread: Perfect healtcare system
08-04-2005, 05:44 AM #1
Perfect healtcare system
I was thinking about healtcare today and this easy but brilliant idea poped into my mind.
All state owned healtcare turns into privat healtcare. But the state instead offers a general health insurance to everyone, the tax will be lowered for everyone since the healthcare part is gone from the tax.
Everyone can choose to make it so a part of the salary goes to the insurance directly to make the system very easy. Privat insurances would offcourse still exist.
Now the insurance is determined TOTALY by lifestyle. Everyone with the goverment insurance have to do total health controles twice a year, smoking, obesity, poor eathing habits, lack of minerals and vitamins, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, ect will all make the insurance price go up while a healthy living with exercise, good diet ect will make it go down. This way all the fat asses, alcoholics, narcotics users wont be able to use our tax money to fund there idiotic lifestyle anymore.
If the healt control is skiped the insurance becomes invalid and the person skipping the control is unable to get healtcare unless paying for it all.
Now the reason I want the insurance to be governed by the state is to make sure the prices wont run out of control and to make sure the poor will be able to still survive when sic. Privat options to help lower the prices because of competition.
With all hospitals ect run by companies the state wont have to deal with the beurocracy involved and offcourse the tax burden will be lowered(especialy in countries like sweden and canada). In the end the price of the insurance would be more then compensated with the tax decrease since everything will run more efficient. Unless you are a fat ass or smoker then you will pay more then you ever had to because of your own stupidity.
Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 08-04-2005 at 05:47 AM.
08-04-2005, 05:46 AM #2
this would also solve the issue of imigrants living on social security also beeing a burden on general healthcare. Now they will have to pay for it.
08-04-2005, 05:50 AM #3
Good idea but has some flaws...and i dont think it allows the goverments to rob people so it will fail.....sadly...
08-04-2005, 05:55 AM #4
emergency care would not be granted to those without insurance simply because the insurance would be so cheap and affordable. So if someone is stupid enough to not pay for it then throw them out on the street.
08-04-2005, 05:57 AM #5
Man ur tough ....I support this 100% btw.....
08-04-2005, 05:58 AM #6
lol would be to make sure no crackheads would be able to get emergency care. if you dont contribute to society dont expect to get anything from society.
08-04-2005, 06:25 AM #7Originally Posted by johan
now i agree with this
08-04-2005, 06:35 AM #8AR's Salad Tossing Connoisseur
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
This is a good theory and idea. The only thing I could think of is being from Canada where health care is covered by ohip, people, healthy or not, take full advantage of our system. Myself included... I will often go for bloodwork, just for the sake of doing it. I think it would raise a lot of hype from many groups and unfortunately the government supports tons of health risk products... but all and all, good idea J.
08-04-2005, 06:38 AM #9
justin here in sweden healtcare is free aswell but the whole system is so ****ing screwed up that a comon surgery can have a waiting time of 2-3 years!! I know a guy with a hernia that waited 15 months to get surgery. Getting apointment for a healthcontrol can take half a year. Its completely ****ed up so obviously we need to learn something from you canadians.
08-04-2005, 06:43 AM #10AR's Salad Tossing Connoisseur
Originally Posted by johan
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
08-04-2005, 06:53 AM #11
funny thing is that the socialist wants more taxes to resolve the issue. But we already have the higest taxes in the world so obviously taxes isnt to low, its just the budget that needs work. Alot of money must be going to useless shit obviously.
08-04-2005, 06:57 AM #12AR's Salad Tossing Connoisseur
Originally Posted by johan
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- Apr 2005
08-04-2005, 06:57 AM #13Originally Posted by johan
I am in doctors offices everyday for a living, a tend to see GPs who have older practices and hence older patients. These patients completely abuse the system, some of them go to the doctor 3-4 times a week cause they're friggen lonely. If they have a sniffle they go, if they hava a hangnail they go, if they have a friggen bruise they go.....it's a real shame doctors have to deal with these pts cause it takes away from the time they need to spend with people who are really sick. Same thing with our emergency rooms, they are full of so-called emergencies which really dont need tending to at all sometimes. If our system charged people a measly $5 per visit it would almost completely alleviate these friggen leaches! People are cheap and they wont pay $5 for a sniffle to get tended to.
08-04-2005, 07:00 AM #14
hmm we have a charge of around 15-30$ depending on what place you go to for a emergency visit, so our healthcare isnt completely free. For kids under 19 its free
08-04-2005, 07:04 AM #15
Also, people who make a certain amount of money end up having to pay a so-called "Health Care Premium". In other words, if you make decent money, they tax you even more for health care, regardless of if you use it or not, so basically we get to pay for the leaches who are on wellfare and fixed income who abuse the system.
Also, they way our family doctors get payed here it's not a very condusive system for keeping GP's in canada. Hardly any new medical students are going into family practice, there is an extreme shortage of doctors and the ones who do go into family medicine sure as hell dont want to practice here. I am almost 30 years old and I can't find a GP who is taking new patients in the city. I have to rely on walk in clinics where you dont get the best care and even soon those will be eliminated
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-04-2005 at 07:12 AM.
08-04-2005, 07:10 AM #16
sexykitty what do you think of the system I proposed?
08-04-2005, 07:17 AM #17Originally Posted by johan
See, I think it's a great system for people who make money, and trust me, I personally dont like paying for other peoples health care as I do now with taxes but the issue of the poor always comes up.
08-04-2005, 07:30 AM #18Originally Posted by SexyKitty
No more paying for idiots, poor people will be able to afford it if they keep there bodies in shape.
So if they choose to spend the money on other things then insurance then they are screwed if they get sic. Baiscly everyone would be able to afford it, but some might choose not to have it and then they wont be able to get healthcare unless they can pay for it when they need it.
08-04-2005, 07:32 AM #19
for most people in countries like sweden and canda there wont be a difference, the tax deduction goes to the insurance instead. But for those with unhealthy lifestyles the cost will increase so the healthy and fit wont have to suffer for others stupidity baiscly. If you are extremely healthy the insurance will be very low.
08-04-2005, 08:21 AM #20
So the govenment gets to decide what is bad for you? Do you really think that is a good idea?
If any person could opt out, and not pay one dollar to support the system, I like it. If people are coherced, and are forced to pay to fund the program for anyone else, than I don't think it is an improvemnt. Anytime the governnment has authority to take your money without permission, they will do it early and often.
08-04-2005, 08:34 AM #21
I think that any public healthcare system is evil because it takes from one and gives to another. But if I had to design one, it would be a system that starts and ends at a local level.
So if you live in a bad area where people take advantage of the system a lot, you and your neighbors alone will pay for their irresponsibility. No more forcing rich people to pay for those who are not. No more extortion. No more allowing people of limited economic resources to reproduce at huge unnatural rates. No more.
Now if you don't make that much money to begin with, and you see your neighbor abusing YOUR money, you'll be in a much better position to complain and get something done about it because you and your community will be able to exert pressure on them.
Also, if the system is local and inefficient, you will be able to go down to the local community buildig and complain about it and maybe get something changed. Try doing that with the federal government. Fat chance.
Last edited by inheritmylife; 08-04-2005 at 08:36 AM.
08-04-2005, 08:41 AM #22Originally Posted by johan
Well, I personally like the idea but even at low costs there will be ALWAYS someone complaining. For example, people on wellfare don't pay taxes yet they get "free" healthcare in Canada's system. Under your system they would be forced to pay, essentialy with money they are getting from Canada's tax payers anyway. People over 65 are on a Pension plan, again a fixed income where I dont believe they pay taxes (well maybe but I'm not sure) and they will now need to pay. Also, the elderly often have a lot of health problems, would this make insurance more expensive for them?
Anyway, I'm just being the devil's advocate because unfortunately I dont think there is one system that would please everyone. There will always be complainers and the governement will do whatever it takes to shut people up so they get votes. I like the system cause then it would free up my income and I could chose to pay insurance or not.
08-04-2005, 08:49 AM #23
Also, private insurance works because the company can choose who they take as a customer and who they don't. The government would need to take everyone who wanted it. Private insurers also compete for customers, the government doesn't need to compete, they hae no competition. And the government is made of people trying to get the most for their particualr consituency, at the detriment of everyone else.
08-04-2005, 09:17 AM #24Originally Posted by johan
EVERYONE has to pay for a baseline minimum government run insurance plan. It is sort of like tax cause it's mandatory and will get taken off their pay, but it's an affordable amount that will entitle people to a very very basic level of care that is clearly outlined. Cost will still be government run in order to be controlled. If it's not made mandatory then there may not be enough money going back into healthcare which will obviously cause a whole lot of other problems. This system could cover the poor and the crackheads (it gets deducted from their wellfare money)
Then, for anyone who wants more, there will be different levels of "insurance", different packages if you will that they can then chose to sign up for depending on health care needs. It would still be government run so that there is no competition and costs are not crazy. At least it gives people options.
What do you think of this?
08-04-2005, 09:38 AM #25Originally Posted by inheritmylife
I would rather have the goverment decide who is healthy and unhealthy compered to privat companies doing it. But by law a council of doctors would set the guidelines for what is healthy and unhealthy.
Originally Posted by inheritmylife
08-04-2005, 09:48 AM #26Originally Posted by SexyKitty
There could be special insurances for pensioneres that has lived in the country for 30+ years with no more then 2-3 of those years on wellfare(so not to risk giving away healthcare to people that hasnt contributed to the country). Yes elderly with poor health would get higher insurance simply because people living healthy all there life is healthier when they are old aswell. beeing healthy should pay of economicaly the entire life, beeing unhealthy should be a economic burden all there life.
This wouldnt be a system to please anyone(except the healty and fit)since most is unhealthy. But it would serve 2 purposes.
1. A clear cut signal that beeing out of shape isnt encouraged in society and choosing a unhealthy lifestyle will cost you.
2. It would not force healthy people to pay for the unhealty people(or atleast cut down on that alot).
Originally Posted by SexyKitty
Hmmm sounds good, but I dont like to have a mandatory tax similar minimal insurance. Since EVERYTHING healthcare related would be run by privat companies the goverment wouldnt have to worry about keeping the healtcare in the country funded. With my system the poor could afford healthcare since the tax reduction would give them enough money to buy insurance IF they are decently healthy. If they are not then let them rot. Also I dont want one single dime of my money going to crackaddicts so thats another flaw in my eyes.
The different levels sounds good since the unhealthy people would have to sign up on higher levels. But emergencies like broken bones ect would have to be on the lowest level. the higher levels in that case would only concern treatment of degenerative diseases caused my lifestyle.
08-04-2005, 09:58 AM #27
So your system is essentialy the same as in the US, only with "government run insurance" to prevent competition and high costs?
Sounds good to me, You should come here to canada and promote your idea to our lovely prime minister. Unfortunately we are so damn liberal our country wants to help EVERYBODY, including the homeless, crack addicts and wellfare whores. As long as I live here I am destined to pay for others "misfortune"
08-04-2005, 10:06 AM #28
I dont know how the us system is
But does a fat ass have to pay alot more in insurance in the us? Does a fit person get reductions?
also I belive the us hospitals by law have to take all emergencies? That wouldnt happen according to my system. If your not insured the ambulance wont even come and pic you up.
The goverment insurance would be in place to make sure no one would be flat out denies a insurance, they would have to pay though if they are out of shape.
Also the mandatory twice a year health controls would be a addition. So it wouldnt be possible to have a degenerating health condition and cover it up at first and get a cheap insurance for life.
I dont need to go to canada lol we have the same problem here. Crack addicts gets everything, free rehabilitation, healthcare, living. If they have kids they can use all there money on drugs and still get more from wellfare and so on. Disgusts me.
Another big finacial burden to sweden is the huge ammount of imigrants with 15 kids each living on wellfare. They way I se it is that if you are stupid enough to get a kid when you dont have a job then its not my fault if you cant pay rent or food. I dont want to pay because some morons dont know how to use a condom. Its a sad situation for the kids, but people shouldnt be forced to pay because other peoples kids are not our responsibility.
Beeing liberal is the opposit of beeing a socialsit so your country is defently not liberal, neither is mine. The term liberal has been bastardised completely.
I am a true liberal with some few socialist additions. I also se the danger in letting capitalism run uncontroled so there has to be some goverment control over those matters.
The western world needs to switch direction and make people responsible for there actions again. Otherwise we are heading for a gigantic economic crisis when 60% of the population developes serious life style related degenerative diseases.
Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 08-04-2005 at 10:09 AM.
08-04-2005, 10:11 AM #29
the thing that disgusts me more the anything is kids that inherit poor eating habits and lifestyles from idiot parents. Setting up your own kids for a short life and poor health. How can someone do that
08-04-2005, 10:14 AM #30
as I se it 2 things are lacking now days
companies takes no responsibility for the shit they do to our enviorment our health and people take no responsibility for there own health. Only when consquences hurts bad financialy will people and companies change since money rules. Financialy bleed those muther****ers to death and they will change
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