Thread: The answer to Tock's challenge
08-30-2005, 08:53 AM #1
The answer to Tock's challengeOriginally Posted by Tock
I'm respected on this board and many other for being a man of my word
Originally Posted by Tock
This website shows that my statement wasn't labeling anyone, it is the truth and I speak of thing I do know, sorry to disappoint you Tock. Now lets see if you are a person of our word. Not only will I know, if you'll do what you say, but the members will as well. My charity is Israel, it'll be used to support returning Jews to the land. I will provide the info on where to send it, if you choose to do as you said
08-30-2005, 08:54 AM #2
08-30-2005, 08:57 AM #3
Maybe tock will agree with the following statement...
Anyone who molests a child should be tortured for a few weeks and then be executed in public! A child being anyone under the age of 18.
08-30-2005, 09:00 AM #4
How about using that money to help the people in America that just got struck with the storm Katrina, instead of helping Israel, which you guys do enough off.
Sorry to get off topic, but I wanted to add that.
08-30-2005, 09:15 AM #5Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
08-30-2005, 09:22 AM #6Originally Posted by JohnnyB
08-30-2005, 09:27 AM #7
Johnny B owns Tock. Israel owns Tock....
08-30-2005, 09:29 AM #8Originally Posted by jc3
08-30-2005, 10:28 AM #9Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Im not sure when you are going to realize that the jews will always be in Israel.
08-30-2005, 10:47 AM #10Originally Posted by JohnnyB
08-30-2005, 12:44 PM #11Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Dude keep it real and mature
08-30-2005, 12:48 PM #12Originally Posted by zOaib
It would be great if he would just, put up or shut up, so to speak, but we'll see. I don't see why he would make that statement, if he wasn't willing to stand behind it.
08-30-2005, 03:36 PM #13Originally Posted by JohnnyB
08-30-2005, 03:58 PM #14Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
08-30-2005, 04:06 PM #15
Tick Tock the clock is moving.
08-30-2005, 04:36 PM #16Originally Posted by mark956101957
08-30-2005, 11:29 PM #17
Allright. Here we go. Unlike a zebra, this ain't exactly a black & white thing . . .
Here's in San Diego we had people in the gay pride organization that are pedophiles (registered on MegansLaw website)
Actually, if JohnnyB can furnish the source for his libelous accusation against the San Diego gay pride organization -- he alleges that pedophiles are in one of their gay pride organizations -- I could be induced to give $500 to a charity of y'all's choice.
Note the verb tenses here -- Johnny said, "We had people in the gay pride organization that are pedophiles," and I wrote, "Johnny alleges that pedophiles are in one of their gay pride organizations."
Well, it turns out (and I'll go into the situation in more detail) that the organization in question had 800+ volunteers and four of them were former sex offenders, and all four were dismissed when they were found out. There is a major controversy in the community because one of the four was allowed by the organizations's board of directors to continue to help set up an event after he was supposedly kicked out. The organization's board has been under fire for its action, most (if not all) of them have been replaced. Quite simply, the gay community in Southern California do not think much of sex offenders.
Anyway, back to the verb tenses, oh, and singular & plural nouns . . .
Johnny said, "We had people in the gay pride organization that are pedophiles," and I wrote, "Johnny alleges that pedophiles are in one of their gay pride organizations."
Well, was Johnny correct that an organization had pedophiles (more than one) working on its behalf? Not really. There was only one. So, no, his allegation does not stand.
Now, I had mischaracterized his statement by saying that he had alleged that pedophiles are in one of the groups, meaning currently. Again, no, there are no pedophiles in their organization.
My promise was this: if JohnnyB can furnish the source for his libelous accusation against the San Diego gay pride organization -- he alleges that pedophiles are in one of their gay pride organizations -- I could be induced to give $500 to a charity of y'all's choice.
Admittedly, that was not the clearest bit of prose ever to flow from my computer keyboard, but I think it's clear enough to convey the notion that I challenged him to show that there are known pedophiles in one of the San Diego gay pride organizations. And, of course, there are none, since they were all expelled. So, the challenge was NOT met.
However, to address the grousings that I'm torturing both logic and the english language to serve my interests and that I'm too cheap to part with $500, let me say this -- I will make a $500 donation to one of the following groups:
1) www.rainbowfund.org The Rainbow World Fund -- We are a gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and supportive heterosexual humanitarian service agency. Rainbow World Fund’s mission is to promote LGBT philanthropy in the area of world humanitarian relief. RWF provides a united voice, a large visible presence, and a structure to deliver LGBT charitable assistance to the larger world community.
2) http://mccchurch.org/ The Metropolitan Community Church -- The first Metropolitan Community Churches (MCC) was founded by Rev Troy D. Perry in 1968 in Los Angeles, CA (USA). This Fellowship of Churches plays a vital role in addressing the spiritual needs of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community around the world. For those of us who were raised in a religious atmosphere, homosexuality was usually associated with shame and guilt. As a result, many of us were cut off from the spiritual dimension of our lives. Metropolitan Community Churches provide an opportunity to explore a spiritual experience that affirms who we are.
Throughout the history of Metropolitan Community Churches, thousands of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and heterosexual people have found hope, and have lived the joy, reverence, and excitement of our fellowship and faith in God. We have seen how people have been changed by this experience. Quite simply, we make a difference in people's lives.
3) www.aclu.org The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) -- The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
So pick which one you want me to send $500 to, and I'll do it.
Now, to give a bit more information on this situation regarding the ONE sex offender in the Southern California gay pride organization . . .
Not surprisingly, JohnnyB's source, , only gives part of the story.
The headline of this petulantly self-righteous publication lambasts Arnold Schwarzzenegger thusly:
Convicted pedophiles part of Arnold-endorsed event
Governor praises 'gay pride' festival that has sex offenders as volunteers
Another right-wing nutso website http://www.conservativepetitions.com...a732dee867138f
overstates the situation thusly:
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and San Diego officials see nothing wrong with allowing dangerous pedophiles to serve in public-contact roles for sodomy-promoting parades.
and "The Conservative Voice" http://theconservativevoice.com/arti...e.html?id=6631 which is another nutso-rightwing group has its take:
Gov. Schwarzenegger Sent Endorsement Letter to Pedophiles Event
Of course, only one pedophile was ever actually part of the event, and all he did was help put up some of the electrical wiring and fences. And they attempt to portray Arnold as sympathetic to events showcasing sex offenders, which, again, is way overstating the situation.
What exactly is the situation?
A gay organization in San Diego staged an event that's been going on for 30-something years. They had about 1000 volunteers, expected a crowd of 150,000. A fellow named James Hartline http://www.sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2003/1003rk.htm checked names of volunteers against a list of sex offenders, got with the right-wing anti-gay group that JohnnyD quoted from and publicized that they had 2 sex offenders helping to set things up. Well, the gay pride organization called the FBI who told the gay organization not to do anything since the sex offenders were not going to have any contact with children. Pressure mounted on the gay organization to get rid of the sex offenders, but they refused to do so until the last moment (too little too late, IMHO). The gay organization told some of the co-sponsors of the gay event that the sex offenders had been dismissed, but one of them stayed on another 24 hours or so, evidently with the knowledge of some of the gay organization's board members.
Now, the Southern California's gay community is pissed at the organization's board members, most of 'em have been replaced, and a lot of folks are still fuming. And some right-wing conservative groups are trying to use the situation to make Arnold Schwarznegger look as if he condones sex offenders mixing with children. Ugh.
Anyway, here are some of the websites I found giving more information on the topic . . .
Criticism of the organization by the gay press is at:
Is anyone really interested in any of this? Or do they just want to find out who gets my $500 -- the gay charity, the ACLU, or the gay church?
08-30-2005, 11:42 PM #18
I knew Tock would have a good comeback.
No money for Israel.
08-31-2005, 09:29 AM #19Originally Posted by Tock
08-31-2005, 01:31 PM #20Originally Posted by Tock
So you are saying I'm right, spin it all you want, it doesn't matter if they have 1 or 1 million volunteers, the fact remains, they had pedophiles of their staff and if not the work of an ex-gay activist, that exposed this, they would of stayed on staff. It was and is the obligation of the gay pride organization to do back round checks on their volunteers, as it is the obligation for a church or any other organization, that has staff or volunteers working with youth. These guys are on Mega'sLaw website registered as convicted sex offenders, not former sex offenders as you try to spin. Look for yourselves.
You of all people Tock should be the most pissed, that an organization that you would side with or be part of, would of let this pass through their organization. I would be very pissed if there was a church that let something like this happen and would speak out against it, wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter, who or what the organization is.
You brought up the Pat Robertson statement about the assignation of the Venezuelan president. After weeding through your spin, I agreed that what he said was and is wrong. Why can you do the same?
Tock you can post all the websites you want, but the fact remains, I said there were pedophiles in the gay pride organization in SD. You said prove it, it post the website, you try to debunk the site and then in your own words admit they were in the organization, so by your own words you validate what you tried to debunk. You spin so much you confuse yourself, to the point of double talk.
I'll let the members decide, they can go to the link posted, for the original posts we made. It was very simple, I said there were pedophiles, you said prove. I post the proof, then you spin the truth, then admit the truth, that you just spun, WOW.
Talking to you is a waste of time, you don't stay with any line of arguement, you're all over the place, to the point of using none truths, to prove your point, then admitting you're were wrong, all in the same breath.
08-31-2005, 01:37 PM #21
I'll make it simple, to all the members, do you believe the gay pride organization (in S.D.) had convicted pedophiles or not, on their volunteer staff. This should be decided by you, not Tock or myself, forget the spin, does the evidence show they had convicted pedophiles or not?
08-31-2005, 07:43 PM #22Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Y'know, maybe there are sex offenders in the church you go to. If not, I'm sure that somewhere there are congregations where sex offenders visit. Are those churches guilty of harboring sex offenders? Do those churches approve of what they did? Probably not.
For the same reasons that religious organizations can't be presumed to approve of child abuse when abusers volunteer at their functions, gay pride organizations can't be presumed to approve of child abuse when abusers volunteer at their functions.
The only dumb thing the gay pride organization did was to not get rid of the sex offenders as soon as their history came to light, and that decision was prompted by advice they got from the FBI, which is, in case you forgot, a law enforcement agency. Why the FBI would tell the gay organization that there wasn't a problem, I don't know, but that was their opinion, and there you have it.
But the rest of the gay community in San Diego is up in arms and angry with the unfortunate decision made by the organization's board, and the board has been replaced with new people.
So, some fringe ultra-rightwing conservative christian fundamentalists are trying to spin the controversy into something that it's not, saying that Governor Schwarzenegger and the gay community approve of sex offenders mixing with children. And I dare say that those statements violate the Old Testament Commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness." And they can suffer whatever repercussions in the next life they have coming to them for that sin . . .
08-31-2005, 07:58 PM #23
By the way, here in Dallas, I've run into a few refugees of the hurricane disaster in New Orleans yesterday and today . . . seems quite a few folks have lost everything they had in the storm, and it looks like nobody may get to return to the city for a month or two or three. I've met a doctor who lost his entire practice, all his tools . . . same story for a lady dentist. They're sending newly-homeless folks from New Orleans to stay in the Astrodome until someone figures out what to do with 'em. From what I've seen in the newspaper, looks like things are kinda desperate for a lot of folks . . .
So, with that in mind, I'm gonna make a $500 donation to the gay church - http://mccchurch.org/ the Metropolitan Community Church -- for their hurricane relief efforts. Not that I'm unsympathetic with the plight of folks living in the middle east, but their problems are largely of their own making, and the disaster in New Orleans is what you might call "an act of God." So, that's where my donation is going. Probably deliver the check in person to the local group next Sunday, unless anyone has a good reason why my donation should go to another group.
09-01-2005, 12:14 PM #24
Damn Tock you're use the same double talk Bush used, when he talked to Cindy Shehan. We can't leave Iraq, because that would be giving into terrorism, but he asks Israel to pull out of their settles for peace, that's giving into terrorism That's double talk, I don't care what side of the fence you fall on, if what you say is wrong, it's wrong. People with my ideology's, say stupid stuff all the time, as well as on your side, I'm not talking about misinterpretation. But as soon as people start the, "what she/he meant to sat is", that's the cover up starting, why can't we just admit they said something stupid and move on, we all do it (say stupid stuff), if you say you don't you're not living in reality.
I get tired of this type of talk, I do apologize, for say talking to you is a waste of time. I get frustrated with people talking out of both sides of there mouths, so to speak, but let get back to what we originally started talking about.
You ask me to prove my statement, about the pedophiles, I did, you admit they were part of the organization and now you are backing out on your word. Who cares what the FBI says, they were wrong, if they did tell them that, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, it's just another red herring. Bring up new situation or scenarios, doesn't change what we originally started talking about, pedophiles in the gay pride organization in S.D.
You can try and turn the tables by saying there could be some in Church's, I'm sure there are, but if any Church put them in a place to work with youth, they are at fault and should suffer the full extent of the law, no question about it.
Most Church's finger print anyone that wants to work with children, they don't assume anything. My teenage kids had to be finger printed to work with the children, as everyone should be, we should protect the children at all costs. Even if it's not PC, because speaking out against a gay organization, isn't the PC thing to do. The PC thing to do would be, to be all over a Church that would of done the same thing as the gay pride organization. Then your side would be all over it.
Why does your side use situational ethics, if you're on the PC side, no one will speak out against you, they'll make every excuse for you, but be on the none PC side and they'll have you for lunch, it'll be on every new cast there is. They will be appalled, screaming how could they have let this happen. The ethics that apply to the situation, should be applied evenly, not based on which side of the political spectrum you fall on. This is where morality comes into play, if you have no base for your morals, they can change with the wind, depending which way it's blowing.
09-01-2005, 12:18 PM #25Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
09-01-2005, 09:14 PM #26Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
What do you think of people who tell falsehoods about other people? Hmmm?
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Ya, I understand your frustration. You want to portray gay people as dangerous, vile sex-crazed evangelists of alternate sexualities, but all you get is a story of how 996 of the 1000 volunteers had clean records, and the rest were rooted out and nothing much happened.
Better luck next time . . .
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Do you have a problem with that?
So tell me . . . what is it that you want from me?
09-06-2005, 03:56 PM #27
Does the spin ever stop with you, they were on the organizations volunteer list, there was a link but the GPO has since deleted the post on there site, so someone viewed them as part of the organization.
Dude spin on, I answered you question, provided the info. You said I was labeling people, were did I label anyone, a pedophile is a pedophile, whether he/she volunteers for a church or a gay organization. They're are on the Magen'sLaw website site as registered pedophiles, do I hear you recanting your statement about me, no, why because it would fit your spin process. You love labeling people, so you think other are like you, but I'm not. What would I gain, making a stupid statement, that had no proof. I said it, I proved it and you recanted. This is about ones character and yours is showing, you love name calling, but when facts come into play, you do what you do best, spin, then spin some more and hope you lose the person in the spin cycle. I'm staying focused, you're the one spun to the point, you have forgot the original reason we started this. Let me remind you.
The SD gay pride organization had pedophiles on their volunteer staff, it's that simple. But you've gotten so far off track, you need a gps to get back. Posting more websites then me, doesn't negate the fact that they were on the volunteer staff. Whether for one minute or one year, they were on the volunteer staff, so playing word games, doesn't strengthen your augment. It just shows that you know you were proved wrong, but won't admit it. I'm not chasing your red herrings, it may work with others but not with me. Take all the rabbit trails you want, I'll stay on the path we began on
Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner, but with the extended weekend, I wasn't on my computer much. Monday-Thursdays are my big days with Fridays being less, but the weekends can be nothing at all.
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