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  1. #1
    PaRiS2005 is offline Female Member
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    Liberals

    Any here? Frankly...I can't STAND them...

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    PaRiS2005 is offline Female Member
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    But I want to hear your side, mainly because it's intriguing, to hear different POV.

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    Hear the liberal side of what? Why can't you stand them? What's wrong with wanting to change orthodox ways of living? With out "liberals" how could we as a society advance? We would be stuck in the rut we are in now with out any change.

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    I would like to know why you can stand them as well... My first thoughts were they are so into civil rights yet discredit inalienable rights, like the right to keep and bear arms.

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    i cant stand them cause of : taxes increasing all the time; welfare; their desire to decrease our military; blaming everyone else but themselves; tax; tax; tax. anti-big business; civil rights activists, but hate the second amendment. they will do everything they can to protect a mass murderer if he is of some sort of minority group, but will jump at the chance to put a cop into prison for wacking a drug addict that is resisting arrest. oh, did i mention WELFARE?! and the fact that almost 60% of our federal budget is dedicated to it? in one form or another. work your ass off so that we can support every lazy son of a bitch out there, and cant support our own families. aside from all that............i love them!!!!

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    Really the far left and far right are cut from the same cloth... just different sides of that cloth...

    Want a good national defense without having all soldiers scattered throughout the world, less taxes, a smaller government with less communist ideas(which all ten points of communism are in law today), free trade, a larger middle class... Vote Libertarian.

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    I'm anti-tax.......pro gun.......pro union.......less government.......more freedom.......less foreign aid........no military on foreign soil........free trade with Cuba.......travel any where you damn well please.......

    I guess I lean libertarian

    Bush has givenj US the biggest deficit ever seen.......and you call that conservative???

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaRiS2005
    Any here? Frankly...I can't STAND them...
    Ditto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    I'm anti-tax.......pro gun.......pro union.......less government.......more freedom.......less foreign aid........no military on foreign soil........free trade with Cuba.......travel any where you damn well please.......

    I guess I lean libertarian

    Bush has givenj US the biggest deficit ever seen.......and you call that conservative???
    the huge deficit started well before bush was in office. like 20 years prior to bush being in office. spending is mostly due to congress, not the executive branch. and during the reagan years it soared to outrageous heighths. and what kind of congress did we have??? a very liberal one headed by the king of liberalism.......KENNEDY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    a very liberal one headed by the king of liberalism.......KENNEDY.
    Too bad teddy is nothing like john f... Now that man was about as libertarian as you could get... Maybe that is why he was assasinated.

  11. #11
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    It's entirely possible the Illuminati has got everything under wraps as it is. If you entertain the notion that the Illuminati does exist the way a lot of people say it does, then you'll find that all the talk about liberal this and conservative that really doesn't mean shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    I'm anti-tax.......pro gun.......pro union.......less government.......more freedom.......less foreign aid........no military on foreign soil........free trade with Cuba.......travel any where you damn well please.......

    I guess I lean libertarian

    Bush has givenj US the biggest deficit ever seen.......and you call that conservative???

    ...pro gun?? Well, Ill be dipped. One thing you and I agree on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ginkobulloba
    It's entirely possible the Illuminati has got everything under wraps as it is. If you entertain the notion that the Illuminati does exist the way a lot of people say it does, then you'll find that all the talk about liberal this and conservative that really doesn't mean shit.
    I call them the elite establishment. All about money and the power it brings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Vote Libertarian.
    werd... meso... post the test to see if someone is a libertarian..

    i can't find it..

    I am a libertarian.. but i vote republican across the board..
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    and being a libertarian has nothing to do with being liberal.. far from it..
    The answer to your every question

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    The answer to your every question

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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    I am a libertarian.. but i vote republican across the board..
    Why not vote libertarian from now on? I mean hey if you are just voting for the lesser of two evils, as Micheal Badnarick said " If you are in prison and have a 50%chance of the electric chair, 45%chance of leathal injection, 5%chance of freedom... Why vote for the electric chair? Because it has the best chance at winning? NO. You vote to live. So vote what you believe in."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    i cant stand them cause of : taxes increasing all the time; welfare; their desire to decrease our military; blaming everyone else but themselves; tax; tax; tax. anti-big business; civil rights activists, but hate the second amendment. they will do everything they can to protect a mass murderer if he is of some sort of minority group, but will jump at the chance to put a cop into prison for wacking a drug addict that is resisting arrest. oh, did i mention WELFARE?! and the fact that almost 60% of our federal budget is dedicated to it? in one form or another. work your ass off so that we can support every lazy son of a bitch out there, and cant support our own families. aside from all that............i love them!!!!

    I dont know how you define a liberal in the usa. But a swedish liberal would surely not want to raise taxes. And all responsibility should be taken by the one responsible.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I dont know how you define a liberal in the usa. But a swedish liberal would surely not want to raise taxes. And all responsibility should be taken by the one responsible.
    well.....the only thing i can gather from your post is that sweden and the us are different

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaRiS2005
    Any here? Frankly...I can't STAND them...
    you cant stand those that want to increase your personal freedom, lower your taxes and interfer less with your life

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    you cant stand those that want to increase your personal freedom, lower your taxes and interfer less with your life
    again...your liberals are different from ours.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    well.....the only thing i can gather from your post is that sweden and the us are different

    a swedish liberal wants 2 things mainly as far as I can tell.

    more personal freedom(legalising all victimless crimes)

    goverment as small as possible(only doing the absolutely neccesary things and thats it).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    again...your liberals are different from ours.

    Il move out of this thread. You americans are wierdos

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    a swedish liberal wants 2 things mainly as far as I can tell.

    more personal freedom(legalising all victimless crimes)

    goverment as small as possible(only doing the absolutely neccesary things and thats it).
    liberals here want huge government. raise taxes, etc.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    liberals here want huge government. raise taxes, etc.
    isnt that a socialist

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    isnt that a socialist
    exactly right. that is the closest thing to an american liberal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    a swedish liberal wants 2 things mainly as far as I can tell.

    more personal freedom(legalising all victimless crimes)

    goverment as small as possible(only doing the absolutely neccesary things and thats it).

    In America, we call that a Classical-liberal, or libertarian.

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    Question for the liberalists...

    How can you be for abortion and against the death penalty?!

    (POV of liberalist)

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    i took the test and was called a nazi nut.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaRiS2005
    Question for the liberalists...

    How can you be for abortion and against the death penalty?!

    (POV of liberalist)
    Seems like Im not a liberal but I can easily answere that.

    a embryo is not a independent lifeform yet. It cant survive without the mother so imo it is a part of the mother.

    Someone sentanced to death is a independent, fully aware person.

    Im for abortion simply because a baby beeing born and raised by a mother that doesnt want it is a horrible scenario.

    I dont know my position on death sentance. Even just one inocent man beeing put to death makes me question the system. Il rather se 100 guilty men free than one inocent man put to death.
    Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 09-12-2005 at 10:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    liberals here want huge government. raise taxes, etc.
    ironic that the government has grown considerably under a republican president

    libertarian por vida!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaRiS2005
    Question for the liberalists...

    How can you be for abortion and against the death penalty?!

    (POV of liberalist)
    Well I am not sure I am liberal, but since I am definetly NOT conservative I'll answer...

    I am for abortions in the case of accidents, rapes and other situations where the child is unwanted. Sometimes even with the best intentions, shit happens.

    On the other hand I am against abortion being used as contraception for carelessness. "Oops! I got pregnant again, oh well no big deal I'll just have another abortion" is downright criminal IMO. When that happens she should get her abortion + 6 months in jail for criminal negligance.


    On the death penalty, I don't have a problem with it... but only when there is NO DOUBT and the case is an open-shut "no circumstancial evidence" affair with hard proof. When you murder someone, you forfeit your life.

    Furthermore I think all "lifers" should get hard labour in gulag style work camps (but thats just my humble opinion!).

    Pedophiles and rapists caught in the act should be executed instantly, no trial, no jail. (I'm sorry but a pedo caught in the act with his dick up a 5 year olds ass has no right to live, no human rights, nothing... he's wasting oxygen).

    Just my thoughts

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Well I am not sure I am liberal, but since I am definetly NOT conservative I'll answer...

    I am for abortions in the case of accidents, rapes and other situations where the child is unwanted. Sometimes even with the best intentions, shit happens.

    On the other hand I am against abortion being used as contraception for carelessness. "Oops! I got pregnant again, oh well no big deal I'll just have another abortion" is downright criminal IMO. When that happens she should get her abortion + 6 months in jail for criminal negligance.


    On the death penalty, I don't have a problem with it... but only when there is NO DOUBT and the case is an open-shut "no circumstancial evidence" affair with hard proof. When you murder someone, you forfeit your life.

    Furthermore I think all "lifers" should get hard labour in gulag style work camps (but thats just my humble opinion!).

    Pedophiles and rapists caught in the act should be executed instantly, no trial, no jail. (I'm sorry but a pedo caught in the act with his dick up a 5 year olds ass has no right to live, no human rights, nothing... he's wasting oxygen).

    Just my thoughts

    Red
    ditto.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaRiS2005
    Question for the liberalists...

    How can you be for abortion and against the death penalty?!

    (POV of liberalist)
    First why have you not answered any questions? You can articulate your points, right? BeerBaron asked you several questions. Are you going to answer them or do you just have a blind hate?

    I will try and answer this question though I detest abortion and have mixed feelings on the death penalty(such as an anarcho-individualist ideal)

    People that are for abortion usually because it is the right of a woman as an individual and ownership of her body. No political figure, congess, and judges are given the priviliage to control and inalienable right. In this 'free' country legislation on this is unconstitutional and therefor is illegal in itself. State by state could pass laws based on medical procedures but the federal government cannot make it illegal without tearing up the very foundation and fabric of this country.

    Most liberals feel killing an individual is wrong, even for crimes of murder itself... they seem to take on the war serves itself mentality and when do you turn the other cheek? I conjecture though. An anarchist, not chaos and violence, but real anarchist with libertarian/individualist-socialist ideals would have a punishment and give the guilty the choice of accepting it or not, but if not he will be set outside of the collective peoples(deported with no monitary or physical property).

    Again, answer some questions and state your positions or stop posting.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    the huge deficit started well before bush was in office. like 20 years prior to bush being in office. spending is mostly due to congress, not the executive branch. and during the reagan years it soared to outrageous heighths. and what kind of congress did we have??? a very liberal one headed by the king of liberalism.......KENNEDY.
    Um, your recollection of history is somewhat flawed.

    Under the US Constitution, it is the Executive that starts the process by submitting a proposed federal budget. And neither Ronald Reagan nor George Bush the First EVER submitted a balanced budget to Congress. Both of them signed all the budgets that Congress approved. Under Reagan, military spending skyrocketed while hospitals for the mentally ill were shut down for lack of gov't support, and many of their mentally ill patients were left to fend for themselves on the streets--homeless people. Ugh.

    And FYI, mon petite, LIBERALS were responsible for such social progress in America such as the elimination of child labor, equal access to education and voting rights for blacks, for putting an end to mandatory prayer for public school students, for allowing businesses to open on the Christian Sabbath (remember all those "Blue Laqws?"), it was a Liberal President that got the US through the Great Depression (conservative Republicans got the US into that mess) and whupped some serious Nazi butt. Liberals challenged the laws that prevented interracial marriage.

    That Great Liberal, President Roosevelt, proposed the Interstate Highway System. Under his administration, working folks got the right to band together and bargain with their employer for $$$ and working conditions. Liberals got Americans the 40 Hour Work Week, safety regulations (I used to work in a semiconductor factory, I can tell you some horror stories about unsafe working conditions). Liberals got environmental passed into law, and consequently you don't have to breathe nasty air or drink toxic water. Social security has provided three generations of Americans retirement benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T. It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going. Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective legacy. I know you don't much care about such things, but it was Liberal ideals that drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
    We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business.
    About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits. This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
    This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were opposed to family values?
    Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.

    Conservatives, on the other hand, have been busy trying to pass laws to "put God back in school" which means (1) THEIR god to the exclusion of anyone else's, and (2) going back to the 1960's rules that REQUIRED every kid to "bow their head and assume a reverential attitude" and mouth the Christian prayer approved by the local government officials, even if they were Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or whatever.
    Conservatives stood at the front doors of schools and universities and vowed NEVER to allow their schools to be integrated with blacks. Then they put a tax on voting, so as to make it too expensive for poor blacks to exercise their right to vote. Conservatives in Congress have been de-funding OSHA (the Occupational Safety and Health Administration) for the past 30 years to the point that in my area, OSHA has only 11 inspectors to keep tabs on what all the employers in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma are doing. Frequently employers are only assessed a $2000 fine when they are found criminally negligent in cases where employees die on the job.
    Conservatives are the ones who want to bring back laws that put gays and lesbians in jail for having sex in the privacy of their own homes -- but of course, you don't care about such things, even when they establish the precedent of allowing the government to regulate the sex lives of US citizens.

    I'll be the first to admit that Liberals don't have all the answers, and sometimes they make stupid mistakes, and that sometimes Conservatives have brilliant ideas. The truth is, both philosophies have their strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes both of their approaches to a problem is stupid. It takes a discerning mind to seperate the wheat from the chaff, the good from the bad.
    With time, maybe you'll acquire that sort of mind.

    -Tock

  36. #36
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    Hee Heee Haaa Haaa I just had to post something on this thread

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Um, your recollection of history is somewhat flawed.

    Under the US Constitution, it is the Executive that starts the process by submitting a proposed federal budget. And neither Ronald Reagan nor George Bush the First EVER submitted a balanced budget to Congress. Both of them signed all the budgets that Congress approved. Under Reagan, military spending skyrocketed while hospitals for the mentally ill were shut down for lack of gov't support, and many of their mentally ill patients were left to fend for themselves on the streets--homeless people. Ugh.

    And FYI, mon petite, LIBERALS were responsible for such social progress in America such as the elimination of child labor, equal access to education and voting rights for blacks, for putting an end to mandatory prayer for public school students, for allowing businesses to open on the Christian Sabbath (remember all those "Blue Laqws?"), it was a Liberal President that got the US through the Great Depression (conservative Republicans got the US into that mess) and whupped some serious Nazi butt. Liberals challenged the laws that prevented interracial marriage.

    That Great Liberal, President Roosevelt, proposed the Interstate Highway System. Under his administration, working folks got the right to band together and bargain with their employer for $$$ and working conditions. Liberals got Americans the 40 Hour Work Week, safety regulations (I used to work in a semiconductor factory, I can tell you some horror stories about unsafe working conditions). Liberals got environmental passed into law, and consequently you don't have to breathe nasty air or drink toxic water. Social security has provided three generations of Americans retirement benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T. It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going. Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective legacy. I know you don't much care about such things, but it was Liberal ideals that drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
    We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business.
    About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits. This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
    This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were opposed to family values?
    Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.

    Conservatives, on the other hand, have been busy trying to pass laws to "put God back in school" which means (1) THEIR god to the exclusion of anyone else's, and (2) going back to the 1960's rules that REQUIRED every kid to "bow their head and assume a reverential attitude" and mouth the Christian prayer approved by the local government officials, even if they were Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or whatever.
    Conservatives stood at the front doors of schools and universities and vowed NEVER to allow their schools to be integrated with blacks. Then they put a tax on voting, so as to make it too expensive for poor blacks to exercise their right to vote. Conservatives in Congress have been de-funding OSHA (the Occupational Safety and Health Administration) for the past 30 years to the point that in my area, OSHA has only 11 inspectors to keep tabs on what all the employers in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma are doing. Frequently employers are only assessed a $2000 fine when they are found criminally negligent in cases where employees die on the job.
    Conservatives are the ones who want to bring back laws that put gays and lesbians in jail for having sex in the privacy of their own homes -- but of course, you don't care about such things, even when they establish the precedent of allowing the government to regulate the sex lives of US citizens.

    I'll be the first to admit that Liberals don't have all the answers, and sometimes they make stupid mistakes, and that sometimes Conservatives have brilliant ideas. The truth is, both philosophies have their strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes both of their approaches to a problem is stupid. It takes a discerning mind to seperate the wheat from the chaff, the good from the bad.
    With time, maybe you'll acquire that sort of mind.

    -Tock
    you know tock.......plagerism is against the law!!!!

  38. #38
    ripped4fsu's Avatar
    ripped4fsu is offline Anabolic Member
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    I love the closed minded "you're either with us or against us" mentality of the conservatives. if you disagree with them then you must me a tree huggin, bunny humpin, commi love'n welfare spendin liberal! one of you said it best... to far to either side is equally as dangerous.

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    MASTERDBOL is offline Senior Member
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    thanks for the help with my nap. i was having trouble going to sleep until i read your liberal psychobabble. you forgot to mention the lovely welfare system that your fellow liberals instituted. it has worked so well since it started.

  40. #40
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    Tock is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERDBOL
    you know tock.......plagerism is against the law!!!!
    Oh, geez . . . I forgot to mention that I got some of that text from
    http://www.turnleft.com/libgood.html
    I usually don't forget to give props to sites I get info from. Well, here it is, and my lapse certainly doesn't alter the points made.

    I hope you're happy now.

    -Tock

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