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  1. #1
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    To Christians and Muslims

    Not a bashing thread here at all. I was just curious to how many of you guys have converted from Christrianity to Islam or Islam to Christianity. I've been thinking and reading on both of the religions and I never knew they had many similarites in their historys. Also, how come the Bible doesn't talk about Muhammed (sp?) also, what were your reasons for your conversion.

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    I Reverted to Islam from Christianity , will post my story soon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Ro
    Also, how come the Bible doesn't talk about Muhammed (sp?)
    The Bible has hints about Muhammed (PBUH), Christians might not agree with it, but it does.

    Like this verse -

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
    and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18

    This is exactly what the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) did. Christians argue this verse talks about Jesus (PBUH), but when the it says "like unto thee", it is talking about someone similiar to Moses (PBUH).

    Jesus (PBUH), has almost nothing in common with Moses (PBUH), but the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), had alot of things that are common with Moses (PBUH).

    Say ye: "We believe in Allah,
    And the revelation given to us,
    And to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac,
    Jacob, and the Tribes,
    And that given to Moses and Jesus
    And that given to (all)
    Prophets from their Lord:
    We make no difference
    Between one and another of them:
    And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."


    (Holy Qur'an 2:136).

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    there may seem like a lot of similarities, but as a whole, its very different. especially theistically. the bible never talks about muhammed because christians do believe him to be a prophet. muslims, like causasian pointed out, try to use verses like deut 18:18 to say muhammed was talked about by using a verse that doesnt directly name the subject, then use the quran as proof saying "see, muhammed did this and is like moses". But if you look at other bible verses, it becomes clear it isnt muhammed this verse is talking about. Plus does it make sense for muhammed to be the one talked about here as a great prophet such as moses, but not mention his name or anything about him ever thruout the bible? no. but the bible does talk about jesus the prophet, son of god. i cant go into verses and such cuz im being charged for my time here and i have the wrong bible for looking up stuff like this (i have my chrono bible here and its hard to look up specific verses because all the verses are mixed up in chronological order). but i can give them when i return home if you like.

    have a good one all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    by using a verse that doesnt directly name the subject
    The First Testament doesnt mention Jesus (PBUH) directly by name either, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Ro
    Not a bashing thread here at all. I was just curious to how many of you guys have converted from Christrianity to Islam or Islam to Christianity. I've been thinking and reading on both of the religions and I never knew they had many similarites in their historys. Also, how come the Bible doesn't talk about Muhammed (sp?) also, what were your reasons for your conversion.
    to read the rest if interested click on the link at the bottom fo this article , i am just pasting some of it here .......

    Name or Signs?

    Turning to the Bible, some may hasten to ask: I read the Bible several times, but never saw the name Muhammad. What is the justification for the title “Muhammad in the Bible?”

    Many Christian theologians find no difficulty in pointing out what they consider as clear prophecies of the advent of Jesus. Where in the Old Testament does the name Jesus appear? Nowhere’ The main question is whether or not the profile of “that prophet” to come was materialized, and who fits that profile?

    The profile of Prophet Muhammad was so clear to many Jews and Christians among his contemporaries that many of them embraced Islam and accepted him as the fulfillment of numerous Biblical prophecies. Ever since, there have been many others who arrived at the same conclusion. Further questions pertaining to the possible mention of Muhammad’s name will be discussed later.

    Biblical Prophecies About Jesus

    Does that previous discussion mean that all prophecies which were believed to have been fulfilled in Prophet Jesus were actually fulfilled in Prophet Muhammad instead?

    There is no reason to rule out the possibility that some of the Old Testament Prophecies were in fact fulfilled in Prophet Jesus. This does not constitute a problem for the Muslims. On the authority of the Qur’an alone, the Muslims accept Jesus as a legitimate and major prophet of Allah. The same was reiterated in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad. There are, however, several Old Testament prophecies which were for a long time misinterpreted so as to apply to Jesus. Such prophecies do in fact refer to Prophet Muhammad. One such prophecy is in Deuteronomy 18:18 to be discussed later. Analysis and reinterpretation of such prophecies should in no way reflect negatively on the honoured status of Prophet Jesus in the hearts of Muslims. It is rather a revelation of the truth which would have been proclaimed by Jesus himself if he were among us today.

    Main Elements in Muhammed’s Profile.

    What then are the elements of the “profile” of Prophet Muhammad as depicted in the Bible?

    That profile includes six crucial elements:

    1. The lineage of the prophet,
    2. His characteristics,
    3. The location from which he was to come,
    4. The revelation which was to be given to him,
    5. Events which were to take place in his lifetime, and
    6. The time when he was to come.

    http://www.al-sunnah.com/muhammad_in_the_bible.htm

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    my little story is that , i was born a catholic christian , from my dad's side who is brasilian originally and mommy who was not so religious and a southerner americano ...........
    although i was never forced to go to church since my dad did most of his praying at home (his idealogy was god is everywhere we dont have to got o church to connect with him , we can sit home on the lazyboy and connect directly ) ..............anyhow ............ how i got into islam well not till 5-6 yrs ago when i made some pakistani , arab friends at the university ........... and aparently these guys were quite practicing muslims , with good knowledge about their relgion cause they would answer my curious questions pretty well , and the best thing i liked being among them was they never forced me or even indirectly would nudge me to revert to islam ................. and finally i asked them myself to give me a copy of the Quran with english translation so i can read it myself ......... U HAVE TO KNOW one thing i was never religious in any sense whatsoever and i wanted to read the Quran out of pure curiosity , since i like reading books and i had nothing exciting to read during thsoe days so , that was my optimal choice , i basically wanted to study it so i would have better knowledge of the material of the religion islam .................

    when i started reading it , there was a very distinctive tone to the literature in the book unlike any i had read ............. before ................. and by the time i had finished reading the Quran (2months time) i was one of those who then know GOD is no joke and he exists ............. and thats basically it , it just made sense to me , and i found stability and confidence in the religion , still questioning myself sometimes how i just flowed into it without really any effort , like it was meant to be .................. thx for listening (i knw the agnostics and atheists can laugh at this story ,but i really dont care).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
    and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18

    This is exactly what the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) did. Christians argue this verse talks about Jesus (PBUH), but when the it says "like unto thee", it is talking about someone similiar to Moses (PBUH).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The First Testament doesnt mention Jesus (PBUH) directly by name either, correct?
    First that reference could have been about Daniel, Isaah, or Elijiah besides Moses... They were all prophets of God and did exactly what was discussed in Deuteronomy 18:18

    Not correct, the bible does say what lineage the messiah will come from, and it also says his name when translated in the language of the day is Joshua.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    First that reference could have been about Daniel, Isaah, or Elijiah besides Moses... They were all prophets of God and did exactly what was discussed in Deuteronomy 18:18

    Not correct, the bible does say what lineage the messiah will come from, and it also says his name when translated in the language of the day is Joshua.
    Jesus has no lineage , factually being born of the virgin Mary (mariam) he didnt have a father ......... yeah indirectly u can connect the dots but reality is he isnt of the lineage (i know a lot of christians will disagree ) but u have to remember the smallest things when u want to fit a profile for any prophecies .....

    Meso i am sure u know as Muslims we believe in the second return of JESUS (pbuh) just like the christians and that he will fight the anti christ ( will be from the jewish nation ) ............ and arent the Jews actually anti christ anyways , the ones manily responsible for persecuting Jesus to be crucified although we dont beleive he actually did get crucified but thats a different aspect , but common ground here is we are right there parallel to the christians , our respect for Jesus is as close to what u have and he will be the one to show the truth in the end .

    but apart from the only verse here that Causasian mentioned about deut. 18:18 ill post some more here where , there have been clues of Muhammed comming after jesus ..........

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    people interested can check this thread out where i have dealt with why we beleive Muhammed (pbuh) was mentioned in the bible ..............

    Muslims Stake on Jesus VS Christianity !

    Muslims Stake on Jesus VS Christianity ! (1victor)

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    Characteristics of the Awaited Prophet - A Prophet Like Unto Moses

    In the Book of Deuteronomy, Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) was quoted as saying:

    “And the Lord said unto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.“ (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

    Three important elements are included in this prophecy: A prophet will come from among the “brethren” of the Israelites; this prophet will be “like unto Moses”; God will put his words in the mouth of this prophet.

    Let us look closely at each of these elements:

    A Prophet From Among the Brethren of the Israelites

    When these words were spoken, they were addressed to the Israelites. The most notable “brethren” of Israelites (descendants of Abraham through his second son Isaac), are the Ishmaelites (descendants of Abraham through his first son Ishmael).

    According to the Hebrew Dictionary of the Bible, “Brethren” is the:

    “Personification of a group of tribes who were regarded as near kinsmen of the Israelites. “

    The Bible refers to the Israelites as the brethren of the Ishmaelites (e.g. Gen. 16:12, and Gen. 25:18).

    i was reading that article and found a detailed info about why that verse in deutronomy is used extensively about Muhammed (pbuh) being mentioned in the bible .

    here is the link again ........... http://www.al-sunnah.com/muhammad_in_the_bible.htm

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    Other Characteristics of “That Prophet”

    An equally interesting and most revealing profile of Prophet Muhammad is found in the 42nd chapter of the Book of Isaiah. Let us examine some of these characteristics:

    The One in Whom God’s soul delights is called the servant of God (V. 1), His elect (V. 1) and His Messenger (V. 19).

    Translated into Arabic these titles read “Abduhu warusooluhul-Mustapha”. Surely all prophets were indeed servants, messengers and elects of God. Yet no prophet in history is as universally called by these specific titles as is Muhammad. The testimony of faith by which the person enters into the fold of Islam reads:

    “I bear witness that there is no deity but Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger.”

    Virtually the same formula is repeated five times a day during the call to prayers, five times a day immediately before the beginning of prayers (iqamah), nine times a day during the minimum mandatory prayers, several more times if the Muslim performs additional recommended prayers (s ). The most common title of Prophet Muhammad since his mission until today is Rasoolullah (the messenger of God). The Qur’an gives him this title. During his lifetime he was addressed as such by his followers. The voluminous collections of hadith (Prophet Muhammad’s sayings) are narrated typically in these forms: “I heard the Messenger of Allah say ...”, “The Messenger of Allah said or replied ...”.

    He shall not fail nor be discouraged till he has set judgment in the earth (V. 4), he shall prevail against his enemies (V. 13) and shall bring judgment to the Gentiles (V. 1).

    In comparing the lives and missions of Jesus and Muhammad, it becomes readily clear that in the case of Jesus he expressed on more than one occasion how disappointed he was in the Israelites’ rejection of him. Nor did Jesus live long enough on Earth to prevail over his enemies (beyond the moral victory which is a common victory for all prophets).

    On the other hand, we find no trace of Prophet Muhammad’s discouragement even in the most critical moments of his mission. In one year his beloved and supporting wife Khadijah died following 25 years of successful marriage; his uncle Abu-Talib, who was instrumental in protecting him from the fury of the pagan Arabs also died. These two tragedies were combined with the fact that his followers constituted only a small persecuted and tortured group. Under such trying circumstances, Muhammad went to the city of at-Taif to invite people to Islam and seek their support in his struggle against paganism. He was rejected, mocked at and stoned to the point of bleeding. In spite of all this he was never “discouraged” to use Isaiah’s term (V. 4): “0 Allah! Forgive my people for they do not know what they’re doing” was his utterance. When Angel Gabriel offered him the chance to retaliate by destroying their city, he refused in the hope that out of the descendants of these wicked people would come those who would worship God, and come they did!

    After this bitter struggle, Muhammad “prevailed against his enemies”, established a strong community of believers who indeed “brought judgment to the Gentiles”, especially in the Persian and Byzantine Empires. Many such Gentiles were guided to Islam while others suffered defeats. As such he was truly “a light of the Gentiles” of the whole world.

    He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street (V. 2).

    Not only was this a distinct characteristic and mark of decency of Muhammad’s, it was indeed the embodiment of the revelation given to him. In the words of the Qur’an:

    “Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice. Lo! the harshest of all voices is the voice of the ass. “ (The Qur’an 31:19)

    “Allah loveth not the utterance of harsh speech save by one who has been wronged.” (The Qur’an 4:148)

    “The Isles shall wait for his law. “ The only prophet who came, after this prophecy was made (Isaiah’s time) with a complete and comprehensive code of law was Prophet Muhammad. The law revealed to him spread to all corners of the earth, even in many remote isles and to the farthest deserts.

    He will be sent “to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house” (V. 7).

    Many of those who were opposed to the truth and bitterly fought Muhammad ended up among the most devout believers. Their blindness to truth was cured. Those who lived in the darkness of an unholy life came to the light of truth completed through the mission of Muhammad.

    No wonder the Qur’an describes itself as “Nooram-mubeena” or light manifest. Describing the Qur’an, God addresses Prophet Muhammad:

    “A book which we revealed unto you, in order that you may lead mankind out of the depths of darkness unto light by the leave of their Lord to the way of Him, the exalted in power, worthy of all praise.“ (The Qur’an 14: l. Emphasis added)

    God’s glory will not be given to another (V. 8).

    The greatest glory a person receives from God is to be entrusted as His messenger to mankind and receive His glorious revelation. Not only did this apply to Prophet Muhammad, but it uniquely applied to him as the last messenger and prophet of God. Truly God’s glory (revelation of scriptures) was not given and will not be given to another prophet after Muhammad, as he is the “seal” of all prophets. It is already about 1400 years since Muhammad was sent and the Qur’an was revealed to him. Yet we hear of no genuine prophet of the magnitude and influence on humanity to be compared with such figures as Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Nor do we hear about another post-Qur’anic (glory) or holy book that has influenced mankind to such a degree.

    Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth ...(V. 10).

    A new song may be a reference to a new scripture in a language other that the language of the Israelite scriptures. This interpretation seems consistent with a more explicit mention of someone who will be speaking to people (including the Israelites) in “another tongue” Isaiah 28:11).

    This explanation seems to fit closely with the second half of the same verse Isaiah 42:16) which speaks of the praise of God “from the ends of the earth”. Only in the case of Islam do we find this prophecy realized in amazing accuracy. In all ends of the earth, five times every day the praise of God and of His last messenger, Muhammad, is chanted from the minarets of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of mosques around the world. Additionally, frequent praise of God and Muhammad by millions of devout Muslims is made on daily basis. It is even a part of the required five daily prayers to include the praise of Abraham and his descendants and of Muhammad and his descendants. This is known as “As-Salatul-Ibrahimiyyah”.

    This person to come is connected with the Arabs, and specifically with the descendants of Ishmael (who settled in Makkah and its environs). Verse 11 to the 42nd chapter of Isaiah leaves absolutely no doubt about the identity of “that prophet”:

    “Let the wilderness of and the cities thereof lip up their voice, the villages that Ke’dar does inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. “ Isaiah 42:11)

    According to the Book of Genesis, Ke’dar was the second son of Ishmael (Gen. 25:13). The best known prophet who came from Ishmael’s descendants is Muhammad. His enemies (who were of his own clan!), who were misled by their leaders or mighty men (as described in Isaiah 21:17) ultimately embraced Islam and were embraced by it. Indeed they had reason to “lift up their voice”, to “sing” praise of God, and “shout from the top of the mountains”. is that possibly a reference to the shouting of:

    “Here I come (for your service) 0 Allah. Here I come. Here I come. Were is nor a partner with You. Here I come. Verily yours is the Praise, the blessings and sovereignty. Were is no partner besides you”.

    This “shouting” is chanted annually by multitudes of Muslims from all over the world from Mount ‘Arafat as part of the annual rites of hajj (pilgrimage).

    The 42nd chapter of Isaiah is indeed a fascinating one. It is not a casual or ambiguous reference to that servant and messenger of God who was to come centuries later. It is rather a comprehensive profile which not only fits Prophet Muhammad but fits no one else. After all, the chapter relates this profile to Ke’dar son of Ishmael and no other descendants of Ishmael fits these descriptions but Muhammad (peace be upon him).

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    Meso i am sure u know as Muslims we believe in the second return of JESUS (pbuh) just like the christians and that he will fight the anti christ ( will be from the jewish nation )
    True and Muslims belive Jesus (PBUH) will break the cross.

    Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

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    Wow, thanks for all the responses. I've been thinking about Islam and Christianity, do you guys think its possible that both Islam and Christianity are based about the same God. BTW I am religious but sometimes I ponder these things, maybe its the Devil who knows? Anyways thanks for all your replys, I guess I need to read up about Muhammad

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    Jesus has no lineage , factually being born of the virgin Mary (mariam) he didnt have a father .........

    Meso i am sure u know as Muslims we believe in the second return of JESUS (pbuh) just like the christians and that he will fight the anti christ ( will be from the jewish nation ) ............
    First in those days Mary would have been stoned to death if not for joseph. That was the line, by name, by the house he grew up in. A decendant of david.

    I do believe there will be an anti-christ, but so far my belief is he will be from Arab decent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    First in those days Mary would have been stoned to death if not for joseph. That was the line, by name, by the house he grew up in. A decendant of david.

    I do believe there will be an anti-christ, but so far my belief is he will be from Arab decent.
    check this link out its from a catholic encyclopedia , which describes the anti christ , and what i read there is no way he can be an arab or even a muslim per say ..................... cause the first and foremost thing about the anti christ is he does not believe in jesus and stands against what jesus stood for and he proclaims himself to be divine ! ( islam doesnt teach or promotes any of the above things mentioned agaisnt jesus )

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm

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    Now maybe some people will dislike what I say, zoiab nothing toward you...

    But in my personal belief, I do believe that you are born the religion you are born and so be it, if you where born in X religion it is because the faith of God wanted you to be born that way. Now dont say "Maybe god influence me to convert to whatever religion" I unfortunately dislike the idea of chosing religion like going to wal mart and take one that suit you.

    Born muslim, so be it!
    Born Baptist so be it!
    Born Atheist, well blame your parents LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    check this link out its from a catholic encyclopedia , which describes the anti christ , and what i read there is no way he can be an arab or even a muslim per say ..................... cause the first and foremost thing about the anti christ is he does not believe in jesus and stands against what jesus stood for and he proclaims himself to be divine ! ( islam doesnt teach or promotes any of the above things mentioned agaisnt jesus )

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm
    Those books may be sanctioned for catholics to teach but are not in the Holy Bible... well the references to gospels but that is just it, references in conjecture. My point is the anti-christ will know who he is therefor would believe in Jesus but try to convince others that:
    A) Christ never exsisted or
    B) He is the Christ

    Scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

    This is the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians)..." We have spent considerable time exposing the great and unparalleled apostasy in which the majority of Christian denominations are participating today. We are at this point in world history today, fulfilling this part of this prophecy. Paul continues, "...and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, ..." Of course, this man of lawlessness is the Biblical Anti-Christ, as predicted in Daniel 9:27 and confirmed by Jesus in Matthew 24:15.

    1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God." This statement, in Verse 2, states in the positive, that "every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh..", but it also carries the negative connotation as well. We can also accurately state that such spirits "seek to sever Him" from being God.

    Remember the Apostle Paul's prophetic warning in 2 Cor 11:14, "...Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

    With this said it could be interpreted that Muhammed could be the false prophet. Also as described above seek to sever Him[Jesus] from being god… Islam does that, right?

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    It would not be fair only using the bible so here are a few errancies I found with the Qu’ran. On Jesus:

    "That they said (in boast), 'We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God';--But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them...for of a surety they killed him not." [4:157]

    Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the Cross.

    "Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary...." [4:171]

    "And behold! I (Allah) did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee (Jesus)]when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic'." [5:110]

    In light of the fact that God did not protect Jesus from the Jews, this statement is false.

    "But she pointed to the babe. They said: 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He said: 'I am indeed a servant of God: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.... Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth...." [19:29-30].

    Christian miracles are matched by Koranic miracles. Imagine a baby speaking in the cradle right after birth!

    "When (Jesus) the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! the folk laugh out,...he is nothing but a slave on whom We bestowed favour...." (The Glorious Quran by Marmaduke Pickthall [43:57, 59]

    "We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel...." [57:27]

    "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." [61:6].

    (See Also: 2:253, 23:50, 33:7)

    It would be interesting to know where one could find a statement by Jesus that he would be followed by Ahmad, whom Muslims consider to be Mohammed. But I digress… we were talking about the anti-christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Ro
    Wow, thanks for all the responses. I've been thinking about Islam and Christianity, do you guys think its possible that both Islam and Christianity are based about the same God. BTW I am religious but sometimes I ponder these things, maybe its the Devil who knows? Anyways thanks for all your replys, I guess I need to read up about Muhammad
    wish i could contribute more than just these little posts but right now i just cant.

    muslims (for the most part, if not all) believe that christians worship the same god. christians (for the most part, if not all) believe that the christian god and the god of islam are not the same. reason being is the god which is described in the quran and the god revealed in the bible have too many differences. if the same true god was that of both islam and christianity, it doesnt make sense to have 2 different religions...2 sets of rules...2 different theistic belief systems...2 different descriptions of the same god even. so no, i dont believe they are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Those books may be sanctioned for catholics to teach but are not in the Holy Bible... well the references to gospels but that is just it, references in conjecture. My point is the anti-christ will know who he is therefor would believe in Jesus but try to convince others that:
    A) Christ never exsisted or
    B) He is the Christ

    Scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

    This is the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians)..." We have spent considerable time exposing the great and unparalleled apostasy in which the majority of Christian denominations are participating today. We are at this point in world history today, fulfilling this part of this prophecy. Paul continues, "...and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, ..." Of course, this man of lawlessness is the Biblical Anti-Christ, as predicted in Daniel 9:27 and confirmed by Jesus in Matthew 24:15.

    1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God." This statement, in Verse 2, states in the positive, that "every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh..", but it also carries the negative connotation as well. We can also accurately state that such spirits "seek to sever Him" from being God.

    Remember the Apostle Paul's prophetic warning in 2 Cor 11:14, "...Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

    With this said it could be interpreted that Muhammed could be the false prophet. Also as described above seek to sever Him[Jesus] from being god… Islam does that, right?

    see the anti christ cannot be a muslim because , we beleive him to be the messiah , and born of virgin birth ............ the only difference arises , him beign god (christians) and him being a prophet (muslims) ............ but we both beleive in his second comming ..............

    now jews altogether dont beleive in jesus , so u tell me who has a HIGHER chance or probability of denying jesus ????

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    see the anti christ cannot be a muslim because , we beleive him to be the messiah , and born of virgin birth ............ the only difference arises , him beign god (christians) and him being a prophet (muslims) ............ but we both beleive in his second comming ..............

    now jews altogether dont beleive in jesus , so u tell me who has a HIGHER chance or probability of denying jesus ????
    I meant no disrespect towards Islam, I do believe I said he would be ARAB... You will find I am very open-minded yet still have my beliefs. Do you believe in the prophecies of Nostradomis(sp?)?

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    In light of the fact that God did not protect Jesus from the Jews, this statement is false.

    well this fact is according to your belief only , according to islam its not false.


    Christian miracles are matched by Koranic miracles. Imagine a baby speaking in the cradle right after birth!


    if a baby can be born of virgin birth i can only imagine what (GOD)IS capable of doing more !! + he was the messiah , who would touch the sick n diseased and the dead and cure them and raise them to life ........ i think talkign as a baby isnt far fetched from all of this !


    It would be interesting to know where one could find a statement by Jesus that he would be followed by Ahmad, whom Muslims consider to be Mohammed. But I digress… we were talking about the anti-christ.

    Ahmad is actually one of the 99 names of Muhammed mentioned in the Quran ............. but yes we are talkign about the anti christ , ill look up some more details on the signs of end of time ......... will post soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I meant no disrespect towards Islam, I do believe I said he would be ARAB... You will find I am very open-minded yet still have my beliefs. Do you believe in the prophecies of Nostradomis(sp?)?
    actually have u ever seen the movie the MAN WHO SAW TOMORROW , i think it was amde in the early 80s ................... if u havent watch it and then we can tlak about nostradamus , although i find his prophecies interesting i do beleive GOD has given clues to many about the future and some of his prophecies which even tell of the event of 9/11 and the comming of an arab after that who would be following the muhammdun law , will raise and army against the west or something ............... we dont think that OSAMA bin LADEN he is talkign about but the MAHDI who will come before jesus and then Jesus will join him right before he is gettign ready to lead the army !

    thats right of the top of my head the details ill post later !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I meant no disrespect towards Islam, I do believe I said he would be ARAB... You will find I am very open-minded yet still have my beliefs. Do you believe in the prophecies of Nostradomis(sp?)?
    no disrespect taken , i am also only trying to show u where the probability lies towards who n more !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Ro
    Wow, thanks for all the responses. I've been thinking about Islam and Christianity, do you guys think its possible that both Islam and Christianity are based about the same God. BTW I am religious but sometimes I ponder these things, maybe its the Devil who knows? Anyways thanks for all your replys, I guess I need to read up about Muhammad
    Islam belives Jews, Christians, Muslims belive in the same GOD, the GOD of Abraham. And worship the same GOD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I do believe there will be an anti-christ, but so far my belief is he will be from Arab decent.
    I dont think any Christian book says that the Anti-Christ will be Arab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    It would not be fair only using the bible so here are a few errancies I found with the Qu’ran. On Jesus:

    It would be interesting to know where one could find a statement by Jesus that he would be followed by Ahmad, whom Muslims consider to be Mohammed. But I digress… we were talking about the anti-christ.
    What are the errancies you found on Jesus (PBUH), in the Quran? I didnt see any.

    Did Jesus (PBUH) himself, and not Paul, say that there wouldnt be a Prophet after him?

    And did Moses (PBUH) ever say that he would be followed by Jesus (PBUH)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    What are the errancies you found on Jesus (PBUH), in the Quran? I didnt see any.

    Did Jesus (PBUH) himself, and not Paul, say that there wouldnt be a Prophet after him?

    And did Moses (PBUH) ever say that he would be followed by Jesus (PBUH)?
    I will repost the errancies. I do not think Jesus said prophet but said tarry at pentacost when the Holy Spirit came down. Here are the errancies you can dispute or confirm.

    On Jesus:

    "That they said (in boast), 'We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God';--But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them...for of a surety they killed him not." [4:157]

    Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the Cross.

    "Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary...." [4:171]

    "And behold! I (Allah) did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee (Jesus)]when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic'." [5:110]

    In light of the fact that God did not protect Jesus from the Jews, this statement is false.

    "But she pointed to the babe. They said: 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He said: 'I am indeed a servant of God: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.... Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth...." [19:29-30].

    Christian miracles are matched by Koranic miracles. Imagine a baby speaking in the cradle right after birth!

    "When (Jesus) the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! the folk laugh out,...he is nothing but a slave on whom We bestowed favour...." (The Glorious Quran by Marmaduke Pickthall [43:57, 59]

    "We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel...." [57:27]

    "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." [61:6].

    (See Also: 2:253, 23:50, 33:7)

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    The reason why the bible doesn't talk about Muhamad is because he is not the real prophet Jesus was. He told people he was but he was not the messia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    On Jesus:

    "That they said (in boast), 'We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God';--But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them...for of a surety they killed him not." [4:157]

    Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the Cross.
    Yes Muslims do not belive Jesus (PBUH) died on the cross, and that quote from the Quran backs up my statement.

    "Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary...." [4:171]

    "And behold! I (Allah) did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee (Jesus)]when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic'." [5:110]

    In light of the fact that God did not protect Jesus from the Jews, this statement is false.
    Depends on what opinion you take. We belive GOD protected Jesus (PBUH) and brought him up the the heavens. But Christians belive that GOD didnt protect him and let people kill him.

    "But she pointed to the babe. They said: 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He said: 'I am indeed a servant of God: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.... Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth...." [19:29-30].

    Christian miracles are matched by Koranic miracles. Imagine a baby speaking in the cradle right after birth!
    Yes, Jesus (PBUH) spoke in the cradle, and was of viriginal birth according to the Quran. Most Prophets performed miracles.

    "When (Jesus) the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! the folk laugh out,...he is nothing but a slave on whom We bestowed favour...." (The Glorious Quran by Marmaduke Pickthall [43:57, 59]

    "We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel...." [57:27]

    "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." [61:6].

    (See Also: 2:253, 23:50, 33:7)
    What is your argument in these last three passages?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolichulk
    The reason why the bible doesn't talk about Muhamad is because he is not the real prophet Jesus was. He told people he was but he was not the messia.
    Again when Moses (PBUH) came down and told people he was a prophet many accepted him, many didnt. When Jesus (PBUH) came down with his message many people accepted him, the Jews denied him. When Muhammed (PBUH) came down with his message, Jews and Christians rejected him, many accepted him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I meant no disrespect towards Islam, I do believe I said he would be ARAB... You will find I am very open-minded yet still have my beliefs. Do you believe in the prophecies of Nostradomis(sp?)?
    This beast will not arise from Hinduism or Buddhism or any other pagan religion; he will arise out of Christianity itself. Few Christians would believe a Ghandi's claim to be Christ. When one looks at Revelation 19:20, that becomes obvious. There, in the passage that describes the defeat of Antichrist, we read that the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles before the beast. This second beast represents false Christianity, the apostate church that calls itself "the Church of Christ" (we mean by this designation the broad "church," and do not intend it to be confused with a certain denomination of that name).

    http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_3.html

    In Christianity there is no real description of the Anti-Christ or what he is in the Bible, its all works of guessing.

    If you were living in the 40's you would think it was Hilter, today you think its an Arab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    Characteristics of the Awaited Prophet - A Prophet Like Unto Moses

    In the Book of Deuteronomy, Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) was quoted as saying:

    “And the Lord said unto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.“ (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

    Three important elements are included in this prophecy: A prophet will come from among the “brethren” of the Israelites; this prophet will be “like unto Moses”; God will put his words in the mouth of this prophet.

    Let us look closely at each of these elements:

    A Prophet From Among the Brethren of the Israelites

    When these words were spoken, they were addressed to the Israelites. The most notable “brethren” of Israelites (descendants of Abraham through his second son Isaac), are the Ishmaelites (descendants of Abraham through his first son Ishmael).

    According to the Hebrew Dictionary of the Bible, “Brethren” is the:

    “Personification of a group of tribes who were regarded as near kinsmen of the Israelites. “

    The Bible refers to the Israelites as the brethren of the Ishmaelites (e.g. Gen. 16:12, and Gen. 25:18).
    Very good post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Yes Muslims do not belive Jesus (PBUH) died on the cross, and that quote from the Quran backs up my statement.



    Depends on what opinion you take. We belive GOD protected Jesus (PBUH) and brought him up the the heavens. But Christians belive that GOD didnt protect him and let people kill him.



    Yes, Jesus (PBUH) spoke in the cradle, and was of viriginal birth according to the Quran. Most Prophets performed miracles.



    What is your argument in these last three passages?
    Last three were a pre-emble to find a Christian Bible that would where one could find a statement by Jesus that he would be followed by Ahmad, whom Muslims consider to be Mohammed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    This beast will not arise from Hinduism or Buddhism or any other pagan religion; he will arise out of Christianity itself. Few Christians would believe a Ghandi's claim to be Christ. When one looks at Revelation 19:20, that becomes obvious. There, in the passage that describes the defeat of Antichrist, we read that the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles before the beast. This second beast represents false Christianity, the apostate church that calls itself "the Church of Christ" (we mean by this designation the broad "church," and do not intend it to be confused with a certain denomination of that name).

    If you were living in the 40's you would think it was Hilter, today you think its an Arab.
    You mean hitler was of arab descent? I do think extremists are alot like nazi's, but my thought was either because of the book of Daniel or what Z said about Ishmaelites (descendants of Abraham through his first son Ishmael). Which I always thought were arabs... Or maybe I saw a show on nostradomus... that is why I asked about it earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    You mean hitler was of arab descent? I do think extremists are alot like nazi's, but my thought was either because of the book of Daniel or what Z said about Ishmaelites (descendants of Abraham through his first son Ishmael). Which I always thought were arabs... Or maybe I saw a show on nostradomus... that is why I asked about it earlier.
    No what I am saying is that you think the Anti-Christ will be Arab, because the favorite enemy of the world are Arabs.

    If you were living in the 1940's you would think the Anti-Christ would be Japanese or German, because they were the villian of that time.

    No where does it say the Anti-Christ will be Arab. Its more common that people say the Anti-Christ will be from Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Last three were a pre-emble to find a Christian Bible that would where one could find a statement by Jesus that he would be followed by Ahmad, whom Muslims consider to be Mohammed.
    As I said the first testament doesnt have a statement saying there would be a Prophet called Yehsua.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    Jesus has no lineage , factually being born of the virgin Mary (mariam) he didnt have a father ......... yeah indirectly u can connect the dots but reality is he isnt of the lineage (i know a lot of christians will disagree ) but u have to remember the smallest things when u want to fit a profile for any prophecies .....
    So because jesus was born of the virgin mary, mary's lineage doesnt count as his lineage?? of course so! and thru mary's lineage in Luke, you see that all the dots connect.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    Meso i am sure u know as Muslims we believe in the second return of JESUS (pbuh) just like the christians and that he will fight the anti christ ( will be from the jewish nation ) ............ and arent the Jews actually anti christ anyways , the ones manily responsible for persecuting Jesus to be crucified although we dont beleive he actually did get crucified but thats a different aspect , but common ground here is we are right there parallel to the christians , our respect for Jesus is as close to what u have and he will be the one to show the truth in the end .
    not quite right (the bold). blame for crucifiction lies on all man, not the jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    So because jesus was born of the virgin mary, mary's lineage doesnt count as his lineage?? of course so! and thru mary's lineage in Luke, you see that all the dots connect.
    I thought the lineage came through joseph, that is why it was so important for him to marry mary(not just because she was pregnant)... I need to start reading the bible again...

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