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  1. #1
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    250,000 bullets used for every rebel insurgent killed in Iraq

    And not suprisingly it is Israel that makes these bullets to kill more Arabs.


    US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed

    By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
    Published: 25 September 2005

    US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand. As a result the US is having to import supplies from Israel.

    A government report says that US forces are now using 1.8 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition a year. The total has more than doubled in five years, largely as a result of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as changes in military doctrine.

    "The Department of Defense's increased requirements for small- and medium-calibre ammunitions have largely been driven by increased weapons training requirements, dictated by the army's transformation to a more self-sustaining and lethal force - which was accelerated after the attacks of 11 September, 2001 - and by the deployment of forces to conduct recent US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq," said the report by the General Accounting Office (GAO).

    Estimating how many bullets US forces have expended for every insurgent killed is not a simple or precisely scientific matter. The former head of US forces in Iraq, General Tommy Franks, famously claimed that his forces "don't do body counts".

    But senior officers have recently claimed "great successes" in Iraq, based on counting the bodies of insurgents killed. Maj-Gen Rick Lynch, the top US military spokesman in Iraq, said 1,534 insurgents had been seized or killed in a recent operation in the west of Baghdad. Other estimates from military officials suggest that at least 20,000 insurgents have been killed in President George Bush's "war on terror".

    John Pike, director of the Washington military research group GlobalSecurity.org, said that, based on the GAO's figures, US forces had expended around six billion bullets between 2002 and 2005. "How many evil-doers have we sent to their maker using bullets rather than bombs? I don't know," he said.

    "If they don't do body counts, how can I? But using these figures it works out at around 300,000 bullets per insurgent. Let's round that down to 250,000 so that we are underestimating."

    Pointing out that officials say many of these bullets have been used for training purposes, he said: "What are you training for? To kill insurgents."

    Kathy Kelly, a spokeswoman for the peace group Voices in the Wilderness, said Mr Bush believed security for the American people could come only from the use of force. Truer security would be achieved if the US developed fairer relations with other countries and was not involved in the occupation of Iraq. The President, said Ms Kelly, should learn from Israel's experience of "occupying the Palestinians" rather than buying its ammunition.

    The GAO report notes that the three government-owned, contractor-operated plants that produce small- and medium-calibre ammunition were built in 1941.

    Though millions of dollars have been spent on upgrading the facilities, they remain unable to meet current munitions needs in their current state. "The government-owned plant producing small-calibre ammunition cannot meet the increased requirements, even with modernisation efforts," said the report.

    "Also, commercial producers within the national technology and industrial base have not had the capacity to meet these requirements. As a result, the Department of Defense had to rely at least in part on foreign commercial producers to meet its small-calibre ammunition needs."

    A report in Manufacturing & Technology News said that the Pentagon eventually found two producers capable of meeting its requirements. One of these was the US firm Olin-Winchester.

    The other was Israel Military Industries, an Israeli ammunition manufacturer linked to the Israeli government, which produces the bulk of weapons and ordnance for the Israeli Defence Force.

    The Pentagon reportedly bought 313 million rounds of 5.56mm, 7.62mm and 50-calibre ammunition last year and paid $10m (about £5.5m) more than it would have cost for it to produce the ammunition at its own facilities.

    US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand. As a result the US is having to import supplies from Israel.

    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle314944.ece

    http://www.loc.gov/catdir/samples/ra.../98092560.html

  2. #2
    zOaib's Avatar
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    causasian , if u have not seen LORDS OF WAR with nicholas cage i recommend u go watch it , its an eye opener !

  3. #3
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    "1 shot 1 kill" -USMC

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil1
    "1 shot 1 kill" -USMC

    That's more of a STA Platoon creedo.

    Mors Tua Vita mea.

    Semper Fi.

  5. #5
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    1 nuke = 250,000 killed..

    it's cheaper to buy the ammo..
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  6. #6
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    most weapons used by the military wont fire that many without damage.. so im callin bullshit

  7. #7
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    this is suprising to you people?

    "fire superiority" is essential to winning a battle, this means - put rounds down range (prefably towards the enemy) during contact, giving them little to no chance of taking aimed shots against you. a single light machine gunner (at least 6 per platoon) carries on himself 800 rds + another 200 rounds his fireteam partner carries. Combined with the fact that most of the fighting is done in FIBUA terms, rifleman will have to double their standard 150 rd loadout due to the CQB concerns (in terms of this post, using automatic fire instead of single aimed shots) - keep in mind, this is your BASIC infantry platoon level troops w/o including plt HQ & Wpns det

    and lets not even get into support wpns, close air support (attack helicopters), armoured vehicles & and the extensive required live fire training shoots that must be conducted to keep up skills & wpn confidence


    round usage during war has no bearing on the skill of the american army

  8. #8
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    It's like they say, you wanna make an omelette, you've gotta crack some eggs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decadbal
    most weapons used by the military wont fire that many without damage.. so im callin bullshit
    You dont know what your talking about. Read the second link, its a US government website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    1 nuke = 250,000 killed..

    it's cheaper to buy the ammo..
    Yeah that would help "Operation Iraqi Freedom".

    Nuke the Iraqis for their freedom.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    You dont know what your talking about. Read the second link, its a US government website.
    haha you trust the gov... your a bigger moron than the others said

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    deca is a queer

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    cruise is a super queer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decadbal
    cruise is a super queer
    I always knew you looked up to me

  15. #15
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decadbal
    haha you trust the gov... your a bigger moron than the others said
    Yeah the government would lie about how many bullets they use.

    The might lessen the amount used, but they would NEVER exaggerate.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Yeah the government would lie about how many bullets they use.

    The might lessen the amount used, but they would NEVER exaggerate.
    LOL think about what you wnt to say before you post. So you are saying a ratio of 1-250,000 per kill, right? BULLLLLLLLSSSSSHIIIIIITTTTTT!!!! Vietnam had the highest bullets fired:kill ratio of any war, and I dont remember but it was no more than 1,000:1. And that was in a dense jungle, this war is in an open desert. Think about it, we have snipers over there that would throw off that figure anyway. If a sniper team goes 4:4 on a given day, that means that 1,000,000 bullets were fired that missed. Yeah, I dont think so.

  17. #17
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg1536
    LOL think about what you wnt to say before you post. So you are saying a ratio of 1-250,000 per kill, right? BULLLLLLLLSSSSSHIIIIIITTTTTT!!!! Vietnam had the highest bullets fired:kill ratio of any war, and I dont remember but it was no more than 1,000:1. And that was in a dense jungle, this war is in an open desert. Think about it, we have snipers over there that would throw off that figure anyway. If a sniper team goes 4:4 on a given day, that means that 1,000,000 bullets were fired that missed. Yeah, I dont think so.
    Vietnam was 200,000 bullets for every enemy fighter killed.

    Please read the second link, its a US Government website.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    causasian , if u have not seen LORDS OF WAR with nicholas cage i recommend u go watch it , its an eye opener !
    Thanks I will.

  19. #19
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    Do you have nay figures on the number of Iraqi soldiers that have been killed?

  20. #20
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    cool, the US military pays someone to count the bullet fired per capita slash ratio slash "Rebels" slash killed

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg1536
    Do you have nay figures on the number of Iraqi soldiers that have been killed?
    You mean the coalition sponsored forces? Like the ING or what?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginkobulloba
    You mean the coalition sponsored forces? Like the ING or what?
    Anyone the US forces have fired a bullet at.

  23. #23
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg1536
    Anyone the US forces have fired a bullet at.
    In the article it says 20,000.

    But the US this year used 1.8 billion rounds of small fire.

    http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingsta...on24June04.pdf

    PDF File ^^

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    In the article it says 20,000.

    But the US this year used 1.8 billion rounds of small fire.

    http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingsta...on24June04.pdf

    PDF File ^^
    lol wtf? so the article says 20,000, where do you get the number 250,000 from?

  25. #25
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg1536
    lol wtf? so the article says 20,000, where do you get the number 250,000 from?
    I guess you didnt read the article.

    20,000 insurgents killed. But 250,000 bullets used per insurgent.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    I guess you didnt read the article.

    20,000 insurgents killed. But 250,000 bullets used per insurgent.
    So 5 billion rounds fired? Putting your views aside, dont you honestly think that 1:250,000 is a little ridiculous?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg1536
    So 5 billion rounds fired? Putting your views aside, dont you honestly think that 1:250,000 is a little ridiculous?
    Yes, I was suprised that is why I posted it. But with technology this will happen, because automatic weapons shoot with more frequency. And now all soldiers have automatic weapons.

    In Vietnam the US used 200,000 per fighter killed. And the weapons back then arent as fast as today.

    Remember this number takes in to consideration the training for the wars also, according to the article.

  28. #28
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    We need to train more on shooting better then... seems like a huge # as I would think if insurgents are within 300meters that it should only take one bullet. We are obviously shooting at ghosts if that # is right.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Yes, I was suprised that is why I posted it. But with technology this will happen, because automatic weapons shoot with more frequency. And now all soldiers have automatic weapons.

    In Vietnam the US used 200,000 per fighter killed. And the weapons back then arent as fast as today.

    Remember this number takes in to consideration the training for the wars also, according to the article.
    The number of soliders using automatic weapons is very low. Most use single shots.

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    I think all soldiers should go drown themselves........they have a genetic predisposition for violence and need to eliminate themselves for the good of humanity........the violent blacks tried to drown themselves by staying in New Orleans........we should have let them do it.

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    Here you guys to solve your math problem double tap in the chest and one in the head thats 3 bullet per target one mag on a m16 hold 30 rounds now that 10 targets either eliminated or wounded. Better wounded it take 4 guy out of the fight.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    I think all soldiers should go drown themselves........they have a genetic predisposition for violence and need to eliminate themselves for the good of humanity........the violent blacks tried to drown themselves by staying in New Orleans........we should have let them do it.
    Well, thanks for that steaming nugget of thought.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    I think all soldiers should go drown themselves........they have a genetic predisposition for violence and need to eliminate themselves for the good of humanity........the violent blacks tried to drown themselves by staying in New Orleans........we should have let them do it.
    i feel stupider by just reading your post.

  34. #34
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    caucasian and militiaguy, when the fuck do you have anything to ever say on this board that is relevant to bodybuilding i.e training, diet, routine etc.....you both offer complete garbage repeatedly rambling on about your little fake jihadist bullshit, i'm sure you're really from chechnya caucasian.....considering we all know what the russians do to 20 something males in that country. Swolecat has his attention turned the wrong way with the newly returned and still gay hoss. Its both of your lame asses that he should be throwing off the board.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Yeah that would help "Operation Iraqi Freedom".

    Nuke the Iraqis for their freedom.
    actually, one well placed nuke,..

    we radiate the oil field (that's below ground)

    and drill our own oil..

    any you can go back to eating sand..
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUISECONTROL
    I always knew you looked up to me
    yall cant help to whore everywhere yall go, huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    caucasian and militiaguy, when the fuck do you have anything to ever say on this board that is relevant to bodybuilding i.e training, diet, routine etc.....you both offer complete garbage repeatedly rambling on about your little fake jihadist bullshit, i'm sure you're really from chechnya caucasian.....considering we all know what the russians do to 20 something males in that country. Swolecat has his attention turned the wrong way with the newly returned and still gay hoss. Its both of your lame asses that he should be throwing off the board.
    yyyyeeeaaaahhhhhh!!!!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    caucasian and militiaguy, when the fuck do you have anything to ever say on this board that is relevant to bodybuilding i.e training, diet, routine etc.....you both offer complete garbage repeatedly rambling on about your little fake jihadist bullshit, i'm sure you're really from chechnya caucasian.....considering we all know what the russians do to 20 something males in that country. Swolecat has his attention turned the wrong way with the newly returned and still gay hoss. Its both of your lame asses that he should be throwing off the board.
    What is it that wrong to hear the other side? You want the voices silenced? Are you living in Communist Russia. And I dont care if I get banned, I am not going to beg. I will present my point of view, and will not change my point of view, ever. Because I belive I am right.

    I lived in Chechnya till I was about 13, since that age I have been traveling occasionally visiting Chechnya. As of this time, I am not allowed in to MY OWN country.

    Now go practice being a fighter.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    I think all soldiers should go drown themselves........they have a genetic predisposition for violence and need to eliminate themselves for the good of humanity........the violent blacks tried to drown themselves by staying in New Orleans........we should have let them do it.
    suicide, its whats for your dinner

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    actually, one well placed nuke,..

    we radiate the oil field (that's below ground)

    and drill our own oil..

    any you can go back to eating sand..
    Good idea, now enact the plan.

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