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  1. #1
    notus's Avatar
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    Do you believe the bible to be these things...

    inerrant-Inerrancy refers to text is considered accurate, truthful, reliable, totally free of error, without mistake and absolutely authoritative.

    inspired-Inspiration is the belief that God influenced the authors of the Bible so that their writings would be free of error

    Infallible-when applied to the Bible, means that it is fully trustworthy. Its text does not deceive the reader.

    Does it really matter if the bible is inerrant, inspired and infallible? So, in your mind if there is one error in the bible can it be true?

    Just curious to what everyone thinks.

  2. #2
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    I dont belive the bible is anything else than a story with some historical things thrown into it.

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    i dont buy shit the bibles selling

  4. #4
    notus's Avatar
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    There seems to be a common theme developing

  5. #5
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    IMHO, the Old Testament is a collection of ancient Hebrew folklore, and the New Testament attempts to build a fire-and-brimstone religion on top of it.
    Doesn't deserve to be taken seriously, much less literally.
    -Tock

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I dont belive the bible is anything else than a story with some historical things thrown into it.

    Why johan?

  7. #7
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Why johan?
    Basicly any book that claims extreme supernatural events without any other historical record to back it up(the events, not the other things in the book) is just fiction imo. The big events in the bibel can not have happened without leaving traces.

  8. #8
    Chemical King's Avatar
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    I believe the bible is 1 thing...SHIT.

    Its like the longest game of chinese whispers and its full of contradictions

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Basicly any book that claims extreme supernatural events without any other historical record to back it up(the events, not the other things in the book) is just fiction imo. The big events in the bibel can not have happened without leaving traces.

    well isnt the bible a compilation of historical records written at different times thruout history that back up events written by other people and at different times in history?

  10. #10
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    I believe word of mouth has a funny way of changing stuff.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackamaniac
    I believe word of mouth has a funny way of changing stuff.
    So what do you believe about the bible?

    I am kind of suprised that no one believes the bible to be the infallible, inerrant, inspired word of God.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by notus
    So what do you believe about the bible?

    I am kind of suprised that no one believes the bible to be the infallible, inerrant, inspired word of God.
    I'm just saying I believe bits and pieces but to believe all for my self with out seeing it happen is just impossible for me. I just think alot of the bible was passed on and got changed a little each time wich makes a bit more of a fairy tale to me I wish and hope it was all true and maybe someday I will but I don't now. If I see a ghost or something then I would atleast believe in after life 100 percent.

  13. #13
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    sounds like a loaded question to me like you think you have some awsome tidbit you think will be a dagger in the heart of a christian once one says they believe this. Ill set the trap...i believe the bible accurate, truthful, reliable, totally free of error, without mistake and absolutely authoritative. inspired and Infallible

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackamaniac
    I just think alot of the bible was passed on and got changed a little each time wich makes a bit more of a fairy tale to me
    have you ever looked into this? Looked at how many 'ancient bibles' we have, looked into the dead sea scrolls, and then looked at how these ancient artifacts compare with the bible we have today?

  15. #15
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    fiction

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    well isnt the bible a compilation of historical records written at different times thruout history that back up events written by other people and at different times in history?
    the non supernatural events and stories in the bible might very well be true. If I write a story about a demon rampaging through my hometown I might very well put real people and authentic places into the story. But the fact that those people/places exist doesnt make the demon real.

    There is no historical record of the flood, the exodus or any other miracle that happened. So Im with tock on this one.

  17. #17
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    yeah - if you think someone actually parted a sea by pointing a stick at it i need what your on

    likes most stories that have been passed on and on and on over time they become more and more fictional with so much added bs

  18. #18
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    is parting a sea any more miraculous as 2 totally different creatures (male human and female human) being 'accidently created' at the exact same time and fit together perfectly so they can produce off spring to continue to make more of their kind? yea, parting the sea is miraculous and i cant fathom it, but i believe it, just as you either believe in a God (which is miraculous!) or you believe in 'accidental creation' which would also be miraculous.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    sounds like a loaded question to me like you think you have some awsome tidbit you think will be a dagger in the heart of a christian once one says they believe this. Ill set the trap...i believe the bible accurate, truthful, reliable, totally free of error, without mistake and absolutely authoritative. inspired and Infallible
    It's not a loaded question I was curious as to how many people on here believe it to be the final authority. I don't think you need to look very far to find something that proves the bible otherwise.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    is parting a sea any more miraculous as 2 totally different creatures (male human and female human) being 'accidently created' at the exact same time and fit together perfectly so they can produce off spring to continue to make more of their kind? yea, parting the sea is miraculous and i cant fathom it, but i believe it, just as you either believe in a God (which is miraculous!) or you believe in 'accidental creation' which would also be miraculous.
    well its not like evolutionarty theory claim 2 perfect humans spontaniously got created out of dirt instantly. But lets not get into that. I never said the world isnt miraculous, but to me something that seems to be a miracle is just a event yet to be explained by science. That doesnt make it less fascinating to me. Quite the opposit realy.

    The thing is that there is nowhere any sign of those miracles happening outside of the bible. Parting of the red sea would be a awsome event that people would write down. That such a huge part of the egyptian army goes under would aswell be a event that historians would write abput.

    And the flood. Well if the flood is true we should se signs of it everywhere, on every mountain we examine. A thing like that doesnt just happen without leaving traces. If nowhere else it should be possible to trance in antartica since the ice would have floated untop of the water and the thickness of the ice sheets would have increased drasticly during that period. But no such signs exist. The climat would have been severly effected for probably centuries afterwards since all the water currents would have been totaly changed. Yet there is no sign of that happening either during that time period as far as I know.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan

    The thing is that there is nowhere any sign of those miracles happening outside of the bible. Parting of the red sea would be a awsome event that people would write down. That such a huge part of the egyptian army goes under would aswell be a event that historians would write abput.
    what if there were things like chariot parts or what not found in the red sea..? Would that be any proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHAN
    And the flood. Well if the flood is true we should se signs of it everywhere, on every mountain we examine. A thing like that doesnt just happen without leaving traces. If nowhere else it should be possible to trance in antartica since the ice would have floated untop of the water and the thickness of the ice sheets would have increased drasticly during that period. But no such signs exist. The climat would have been severly effected for probably centuries afterwards since all the water currents would have been totaly changed. Yet there is no sign of that happening either during that time period as far as I know.
    what signs should be evident? how long would water have to stay in one spot before waterlines show, how long do water lines show, what the climate was at that time, if there was ice in antarctica during the flood, etc...but you know im not one to just say "god did it" but i am not one to deny it either. if god caused a great flood over the earth, i dont see how he could cause it without severly effecting the climate for centuries.

  22. #22
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    what if there were things like chariot parts or what not found in the red sea..? Would that be any proof?
    That would be interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    what signs should be evident? how long would water have to stay in one spot before waterlines show, how long do water lines show, what the climate was at that time, if there was ice in antarctica during the flood, etc...but you know im not one to just say "god did it" but i am not one to deny it either. if god caused a great flood over the earth, i dont see how he could cause it without severly effecting the climate for centuries.
    I think other signs besides water lines should be evident but depends on time I guess.
    when did the flood happen according to the bible? Sometime during the last 6000 years right?

    The ice sheets can be dated very far back. At least 400 000 years from the deepest drill so far and there is nothing indicating we wont find older ice deeper down.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    That would be interesting.



    I think other signs besides water lines should be evident but depends on time I guess.
    when did the flood happen according to the bible? Sometime during the last 6000 years right?

    The ice sheets can be dated very far back. At least 400 000 years from the deepest drill so far and there is nothing indicating we wont find older ice deeper down.
    well, we dont know when the flood happened i dont think. theres the new earth theory and the old earth theory. so i think some people would say yes, the flood was like 4300 years ago, but then some people say that, though the bible has a chronological order to it, some time of disobediance is not recorded (called the 'long chronology' if you wanna look it up). but what is the definition of disobediance they are using because there certainly is disobediance thruout the bible. so i honestly dont know enough to say when the flood happened.

    on a side note, you know any good sites or what i can google to find out how they determine an ice sheet is 400,000 years old? thats amazing.

  24. #24
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    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33168

    something i found. now i dont know how reliable this site is, these people or anything about it. just something i found doing google.

  25. #25
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    Okay that makes it kind of hard to tell anything so I dont know how one would verify or disprove the bible claims if it happened say 10 million years ago not 4300 years ago


    http://www.70south.com/resources/environment/ice

    I did a quick google and found that site.

    just google age of antartic ice and alot of sites pops up

  26. #26
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    yea i dont know. for now we can assume 4300 years.. at least there are some dates that can get us to 4300 years ago. i read somewhere how there are good evidence in both young earth and old earth, but i dont know if both theories put the flood at the same time and all the extra time comes before the flood or if old earth theory puts noahs flood lots of years before.
    Last edited by max2extreme; 10-16-2005 at 11:19 AM.

  27. #27
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    pretty interesting article

  28. #28
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    to if the flood did happen 4300 years ago the rain would probably fall over antartica aswell(or well snow most likely) and that would have caused a incredible thickening of the ice sheet. That would show up in the drills for sure. Now offcourse its possible god didnt make it snow or rain there and in that case I guess the ice sheet would just float ontop of the extra water and than go down again. If that can be traced I have no clue. BUt it should be tracable on the pole where alot of the ice is on land.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by notus
    inerrant-Inerrancy refers to text is considered accurate, truthful, reliable, totally free of error, without mistake and absolutely authoritative.

    inspired-Inspiration is the belief that God influenced the authors of the Bible so that their writings would be free of error

    Infallible-when applied to the Bible, means that it is fully trustworthy. Its text does not deceive the reader.

    Does it really matter if the bible is inerrant, inspired and infallible? So, in your mind if there is one error in the bible can it be true?

    Just curious to what everyone thinks.

    I believe it is perfect in its original form. What we have today is almost perfect, for instance the noted Scholar Bruce Metger (professor of theology, Princeton) puts the degree of accuracy, from when they were written compared to what we have now at 99.5% percent.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    to if the flood did happen 4300 years ago the rain would probably fall over antartica aswell(or well snow most likely) and that would have caused a incredible thickening of the ice sheet. That would show up in the drills for sure. Now offcourse its possible god didnt make it snow or rain there and in that case I guess the ice sheet would just float ontop of the extra water and than go down again. If that can be traced I have no clue. BUt it should be tracable on the pole where alot of the ice is on land.
    Ya, the Bible says that the entire planet was covered in water, about 30 cubits (about 20 feet) above the tallest mountains. So, since that would be Mt. Everest at over 14,000 feet, it would be safe to say that if that mountain was covered with water, then if there is 1000 feet of ice at the south pole, then that would be covered with at least 13,000 feet of water.

    Again, the question arises, "Where did all that water come from, and where did it all go afterward?" Seems to be the question that neither Max nor Books wants to touch . . . can't say that I blame them . . .

    -Tock

  31. #31
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    if you search back, i bet you'll find ive answered that question everytime youve asked except for one. why dont you do a search.

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    To me the bible is a book of fiction with nice stories in it, just like a Harry Potter or Agatha Christie novel... nothing more...

    If people chose to accept the stories of the bible as fact, then good for them, the day they can supply proof for all those stories I may believe it to be more than fantasy.

    But until you show me a man walking on water, resurecting from the dead, parting the sea, changing water to wine or any scientific proof of a "god", I'll just stick to my beliefs (or lack of).

    Red

  33. #33
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    A lot of people are tired of not getting any proof, this is why humans dont go to church anymore, and are not buying that religion anymore.

    Doing this and that or god will put you in hell.

    Here on Montreal they are destroying churchs to build condos.

  34. #34
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    (i use 'you' as a general term sonar, not directing this at you)

    tired of not getting any proof? Its probably those same people who wait for others to tell them the proofs instead of actually going out and searching for it themselves, yet if someone from the church knocks on their door, its shut as fast as its opened. i find that most of the people i talk to are uninformed because they are either too lazy to look, dont think it matters, or think they know but truly dont. and they stick to what they "know" because its easier than actually doing a little research...mostly because "im too busy". well you know what, what if after you die God is "too busy for you" like you were "too busy for Him". The proofs are there. Its not a blind faith. and yes, I cant wait till I go to heaven, but Im in no hurry. When its time, its time. Until then, Ill enjoy all of the universe I can that He has given. Thats too bad they are destroying churches to build condos.

  35. #35
    notus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    (i use 'you' as a general term sonar, not directing this at you)

    tired of not getting any proof? Its probably those same people who wait for others to tell them the proofs instead of actually going out and searching for it themselves, yet if someone from the church knocks on their door, its shut as fast as its opened. i find that most of the people i talk to are uninformed because they are either too lazy to look, dont think it matters, or think they know but truly dont. and they stick to what they "know" because its easier than actually doing a little research...mostly because "im too busy". well you know what, what if after you die God is "too busy for you" like you were "too busy for Him". The proofs are there. Its not a blind faith. and yes, I cant wait till I go to heaven, but Im in no hurry. When its time, its time. Until then, Ill enjoy all of the universe I can that He has given. Thats too bad they are destroying churches to build condos.
    actually if there is proof then faith is not required and if you dont have faith you can't please God. (By the bible def. of faith anyway.)

  36. #36
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    i didnt say there was absolute proof. and thats where faith comes in. but christianity is not a "blind faith" religion either.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by notus
    actually if there is proof then faith is not required and if you dont have faith you can't please God. (By the bible def. of faith anyway.)


    Your statement is false.

  38. #38
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    Faith is required in most of life.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Ya, the Bible says that the entire planet was covered in water, about 30 cubits (about 20 feet) above the tallest mountains. So, since that would be Mt. Everest at over 14,000 feet, it would be safe to say that if that mountain was covered with water, then if there is 1000 feet of ice at the south pole, then that would be covered with at least 13,000 feet of water.

    Again, the question arises, "Where did all that water come from, and where did it all go afterward?" Seems to be the question that neither Max nor Books wants to touch . . . can't say that I blame them . . .

    -Tock


    The water came from our planet being barbarded with astroids millions of years ago... Geologist have found through studying of other asteroids that they contain water.... Watch National Geographic Explorer sometime... A lot to learn on Naked Science

  40. #40
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    He didnt ask the question on what the original water comes from. He wonder where the biblical flood water came from

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