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  1. #1
    BeerBaron's Avatar
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    Near death experiences

    I was watching a show on the history channel that dealt with people have accidents that resulted in death followed by resuscitation. The people they had on the show reported seeing "the light" and dead family members ect. Some even had out of body experiences such as looking down at their own body being worked on in an operating room, even recalling conversation and specific tools being used. This woman in the operating room was even hooked to an EEG to monitor brain activity during her operation, as she had to be actually dead during the operation, and there was no brain activity the entire time. Most were openly christian.



    So do you guys think their soul or what ever was actually out of the body looking down? Or do you think it is all psycological trickery? I would like to know when the soul actually leaves the body during the process of death. Is there a set time after a specific event, or at a specific event? If the accounts above are true, the soul can effectivly leave and re-enter the body, how does that work? I also don't understand how a soul could hear conversation, or even see. And a soul must be able to retain memory somehow, if it can remember such an event. And since these people are able to tell others about these accounts, does that mean our souls are a part of our conciousness?



    It seems to me these accounts are way too typical of a human experience. Seeing, hearing, having conversation, and retaining memory of such an event are all way too characteristic of a human account. I believe it to be a product of the brain during the time of resuscitation. During that time a person is moving rapidly through different states of conciousness, from death. I believe these accounts to be "dreams" that occur in no more than a split second during that critical time of being brought back to conciousness.

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    Soul a part of conciousness? Maybe or they could be two seperate things and you could still see those things... I just dont believe them to be dreams as you do.

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    BeerBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Soul a part of conciousness? Maybe or they could be two seperate things and you could still see those things... I just dont believe them to be dreams as you do.
    Actually, dont christians believe the soul to be origin of morals? So I supose if that were the case you would believe the soul to be a part of conciousness. But it still is a seemingly separate entity because it can leave and return and retain memory of an event it was a part of. What do you think is happening to the soul?

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    i got knocked over by a car when i was young and i can remmeber standing where the car had hit me looking at my grandad carrying ME up the street 20 years ago & ill never forget that sh*t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    Actually, dont christians believe the soul to be origin of morals? So I supose if that were the case you would believe the soul to be a part of conciousness. But it still is a seemingly separate entity because it can leave and return and retain memory of an event it was a part of. What do you think is happening to the soul?
    Actually, I never gave much thought to where the origin of "morals" come from... Not sure what is happening to the soul, some christians do not even believe in out of the body experiences so they would tend to agree with you it is only a dream.

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    There seems to be instances where the person has been truly brain dead and yet could give a good account on what the doctors around him/her said so I think there is more to it than just dreams. I dont know however how valid those stories are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stompin
    i got knocked over by a car when i was young and i can remmeber standing where the car had hit me looking at my grandad carrying ME up the street 20 years ago & ill never forget that sh*t.
    Were you dead or just unconcious?

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    yeah i was dead, for 3 days then i some how i rose from the dead
    trapped in this weird temple, with nails through my wrists and a funny
    red headband on

    seriously, just a few broken bones, i was just unconcious

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    Actually there are studies of what happens to the brain during these types of times that show the pupils dialate and extreme amount thus form the tunnel vison or the bright light at the end of the black tunnel

    Plus there are studies that show the brain chemistry going on and the massive increases in serotonin and dopamine levels creating an immense feeling of warmth and wellbeing.


    Ive even seen a 5 year study that was secretley perfomed using an electronic board up above the paitents sight used in various operating rooms that had random paterns or numbers on it.

    They did this to thousands of subjects to see if there was in fact a truth to the "out of body" experience. Yet not even 1 subject had reported any claims to have seen this in the various near death experiences and out of body claims that were experienced in those specific rooms.

    I say its bogus!!!

    I have been in various near death experiences and let me tell you all I ever remember is the time that I woke up, before that when I was actually pronounced dead is nothing just black unconsciousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stompin
    yeah i was dead, for 3 days then i some how i rose from the dead
    trapped in this weird temple, with nails through my wrists and a funny
    red headband on

    seriously, just a few broken bones, i was just unconcious
    LMAO!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2
    Actually there are studies of what happens to the brain during these types of times that show the pupils dialate and extreme amount thus form the tunnel vison or the bright light at the end of the black tunnel

    Plus there are studies that show the brain chemistry going on and the massive increases in serotonin and dopamine levels creating an immense feeling of warmth and wellbeing.


    Ive even seen a 5 year study that was secretley perfomed using an electronic board up above the paitents sight used in various operating rooms that had random paterns or numbers on it.

    They did this to thousands of subjects to see if there was in fact a truth to the "out of body" experience. Yet not even 1 subject had reported any claims to have seen this in the various near death experiences and out of body claims that were experienced in those specific rooms.

    I say its bogus!!!

    I have been in various near death experiences and let me tell you all I ever remember is the time that I woke up, before that when I was actually pronounced dead is nothing just black unconsciousness.
    Interesting. Yeah, I think out of body experiences can be rationally explained through psychology/biology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    Interesting. Yeah, I think out of body experiences can be rationally explained through psychology/biology.
    Lets post up those studies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    There seems to be instances where the person has been truly brain dead and yet could give a good account on what the doctors around him/her said so I think there is more to it than just dreams. I dont know however how valid those stories are.
    Yes, the story I mentioned above had a woman who could recall conversation, as well as tools being used, while hooked up to an EEG to ensure zero brain activity. I think there may be brain activity that an EEG can not detect, kind of like a dead battery that still has a couple millivolts lingering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    Lets post up those studies!
    yeah, that would be an odd study. Do these experiences happen often in operating rooms?

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    that begs the question on what is the more scientific apporach. Assuming there is brain activity when all we know of brain science doesnt allow there to be any, or to assume the existance of a concious soul. Tricky situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    that begs the question on what is the more scientific apporach. Assuming there is brain activity when all we know of brain science doesnt allow there to be any, or to assume the existance of a concious soul. Tricky situation.
    It is tricky. I have no doubt most of these people believe they experienced what they are saying. But if these accounts are true, a soul can see, hear, remember, and have emotion. Not only that, the soul can leave and re-enter the body transfering with it memory of events, sights, an sounds. Or are these accounts being generated some other way?

  17. #17
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    If it is true yeah it kind of asks the question if it is the soul or the brain that is the consiousness, But then again you can get retarted ect from damages to the brain.

    those that claim they can leave there bodies(in controlled fashions) should try and prove there claims under scientific scrutiny so we can get a end to this

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    has there been someone who claimed they could leave their body consciously? I only heard of this happening after some bad trauma or what not.

    about your retarted due to brain damage comment johan. think of this. you break your arm, you cant use it correctly or at all. you break your brain (damage), you cant use it correctly or at all... I see our soul as using the body like a machine. with an uninjured body, our soul uses it like we see 'normal' people. once our body is injured, our soul does with it what it can and if one cant talk right or walks funny, its like a car with a broken tire. the person inside is still driving and the person inside is fine, but its the car thats broke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    yeah, that would be an odd study. Do these experiences happen often in operating rooms?
    I have a feeling we will never see those studies...

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    max look into OBE. There are lots of people claiming they can leave the body and go into astral planes ect. But just a few that claim they can leave the body and walk the soul in this world(not in some astral plane).

    I have also though of it like that. The body as a reciver and the soul the transmiter and a brain damage would be like having a broken antenna. But then again might just be wishfull thinking to the extreme.

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    To test if a person can leave the body would be so easy. Hide a note or someting in a room and tell the person to walk into that room when out of his body and read the note. Repeat it a few times to trusted scientists and viola out of body experiences is empiricaly proven.

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    are these the same people that put an aluminium foil on their heads?
    Last edited by MilitiaGuy; 10-18-2005 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    To test if a person can leave the body would be so easy. Hide a note or someting in a room and tell the person to walk into that room when out of his body and read the note. Repeat it a few times to trusted scientists and viola out of body experiences is empiricaly proven.
    There are psychological testing labs set up for testing all sorts of claims like psychic prediction, telepathy, and I'm sure they would be all over anyone who said they could leave their body. And I'm sure if they found someone who could do any of these things, they would publish those findings asap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    about your retarted due to brain damage comment johan. think of this. you break your arm, you cant use it correctly or at all. you break your brain (damage), you cant use it correctly or at all... I see our soul as using the body like a machine. with an uninjured body, our soul uses it like we see 'normal' people. once our body is injured, our soul does with it what it can and if one cant talk right or walks funny, its like a car with a broken tire. the person inside is still driving and the person inside is fine, but its the car thats broke.
    So is a retard, retarded in heaven? And since many retards can only comprehend touch (what feels good, and what feels bad) some tend to masturbate a lot, do they go to hell for masturbating? Are they not held responsible for their actions because their brain is "broken" and their soul can't communicate? What about feral children studies that show similar behavior paterns to retards, that is not due to any brain damage, but due to environment. They should be able to communicate with their souls no problem, the hardware is there. Yet feral children behave just like animals and retards, and with that behavior they inherently violate not only christian 10 commandments and other rule, but contradict the very reason souls are suposed to be in the body which is moral conduct among other things. This begs to say that morals are more of social standards, not inherent to human life. If a perfectly healthy child is left alone with no other human interaction, it has no moral, that has been shown.

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    MMMM i have read well over 500 NDE some of them sound dumb and some of them sound real. My grand father died twice while open heart surgery sadly all he can remember is black...... seeing black, yet my fathers friend add surgery for crohns disease and died has well, he remembers 2 hands on top of is head and all that the nurses said during the operation.

    I have read that the brain that lacks more then 4 minutes without air and the person becomes a vegetable.

    Yet again i would find it stupid to be born live learn and die without any trace of our being here.

    Seth in the 70 add many studies about life after death, he did record many after death conversations.

    I have seen many so called psychics has well and they where all legends in there own minds.

    Sadly i have no hard evidence that there is survival after the physical body dies.

    And where do our emotions come from? not from the heart, the brain or the soul.

    The bible talks a lot about the soul, but is the bible true or just another hoax to keep us humans in line and control us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    So is a retard, retarded in heaven? And since many retards can only comprehend touch (what feels good, and what feels bad) some tend to masturbate a lot, do they go to hell for masturbating? Are they not held responsible for their actions because their brain is "broken" and their soul can't communicate? What about feral children studies that show similar behavior paterns to retards, that is not due to any brain damage, but due to environment. They should be able to communicate with their souls no problem, the hardware is there. Yet feral children behave just like animals and retards, and with that behavior they inherently violate not only christian 10 commandments and other rule, but contradict the very reason souls are suposed to be in the body which is moral conduct among other things. This begs to say that morals are more of social standards, not inherent to human life. If a perfectly healthy child is left alone with no other human interaction, it has no moral, that has been shown.
    most of your post, I dont have an answer to. I would assume that when we are resurrected, body and soul, that we are made perfect again (it may say that in the bible, i forget, so for now, just consider that as an "i think"). I dont know how God deals with any of this. If this was a real question, then sorry I dont know. If this was an arguement against Christianity or God, then because you, me, or anyone else in the world cant answer these questions, it cant be used for anyone's side because its all just thoughts with no backing, except that God is all-knowing and he is all-just and He is all-loving, thus I trust his judgement whatever it may be.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    most of your post, I dont have an answer to. I would assume that when we are resurrected, body and soul, that we are made perfect again (it may say that in the bible, i forget, so for now, just consider that as an "i think"). I dont know how God deals with any of this. If this was a real question, then sorry I dont know. If this was an arguement against Christianity or God, then because you, me, or anyone else in the world cant answer these questions, it cant be used for anyone's side because its all just thoughts with no backing, except that God is all-knowing and he is all-just and He is all-loving, thus I trust his judgement whatever it may be.
    Fair enough. You should check out feral children studies, not only are they very interesting, they show how a human can be raised as an animal and actually fit into an animal society. We are not inherently more moral than any other animal. Many sociological and psychological studies done on feral children, google has a lot; www.feralchildren.com is a place to start.

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    dont want to turn that thread into a feral child thread..but since you are the starter..seems fine. but are there any real cases of feral children living with animals? I looked at the site but read:

    The evidence for many is virtually non-existent. Some, such as The Lobo Girl of Devil's River are quite possibly merely folk tales. In The Mother Wolf, the final chapter of his PhD thesis, Paul Williams questions whether any child has really been raised by animals.

    and how do you think or what did you read that lead to the fact that if a human is raised by animals or what not, that they have less morals. i might even agree and might argue that an animal has MORE morals than man... (if we can first call what an animal has as 'morals', though not sure we could do that) anyone here ever take debate classes in hs or college? i love em. with ours, we didnt get to pick what side we were on. we were given the subject, and given our belief and had to fight for that side even if we were against it in reality. very good classes. id recommend them.

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