Anabolics
Search More Than 6,000,000 Posts
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 151
  1. #1
    Bigen12's Avatar
    Bigen12 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,301

    U.N.: Syria, Lebanon Involved in Slaying

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051021/...n_hariri_probe
    U.N.: Syria, Lebanon Involved in Slaying By NICK WADHAMS and EDITH M. LEDERER, Associated Press Writers



    UNITED NATIONS - Top Syrian intelligence officials approved the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and their Lebanese counterparts helped organize it, according to a U.N. probe that officially linked Damascus to the slaying for the first time.



    The exhaustive report into the Feb. 14 car bomb that killed the popular opposition leader and 20 others stopped short of fingering Syrian President Bashar Assad or his inner circle. But it accused the regime of failing to cooperate in the probe and alleged Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa lied in a letter to the investigating commission.

    It also cites one witness as saying Assad's brother-in-law Assef Shawkat, who is Syria's military intelligence chief, set up a false confession to Hariri's murder 15 days before it took place.

    Syria rejected the report.

    Chief investigator Detlev Mehlis' findings were issued to the U.N. Security Council late Thursday and will almost certainly inflame tensions in the region.

    The Security Council is likely to use the report to renew pressure on Syria to ease its continued influence on Lebanon. The council is expected to discuss it on Tuesday, and may consider sanctions against Syria.

    The decision to assassinate Hariri "could not have been taken without the approval of top-ranked Syrian security officials and could not have been further organized without the collusion of their counterparts in the Lebanese security services," the report said.

    At the time of Hariri's assassination, Syria had about 14,000 troops in Lebanon and essentially controlled the country along with its Lebanese government allies.

    Mehlis was careful not to assign blame but cites witness testimony that strongly implicates several officials suspected of conspiring to assassinate Hariri. Lebanon has already arrested four of them, all Lebanese generals close to Syria.

    The report also raised questions about Lebanon's pro-Syrian president, Emile Lahoud, alleging he received a phone call minutes before the deadly blast from the brother of a prominent member of a pro-Syrian group. The same man also called one of four generals arrested, Brig. Gen. Raymond Azar, who at the time was head of Lebanon's military intelligence.

    Lahoud's office said it "categorically denies" that the president received such a phone call.

    The 53-page report outlines Hariri's worsening relationship with Syrian officials and said the motive for his killing appeared to have been political. Hariri had fallen out with Syria and eventually resigned as prime minister in October 2004, a month after a decision to change Lebanon's laws and extend Lahoud's term.

    Pro-Syrian opponents had accused Hariri of being the driving force behind a U.N. resolution adopted in September 2004 that unsuccessfully attempted to stop Lebanon's parliament from extending the term of Lahoud, Hariri's longtime rival. The resolution also demanded Syria withdraw all its troops and intelligence operatives from Lebanon.

    The report cites one Syrian witness living in Lebanon who claimed to have worked for Syrian intelligence. He said Lebanese and Syrian officials decided to assassinate Hariri about two weeks after the Security Council adopted the resolution. At the beginning of January 2005, a senior Syrian officer in Lebanon told the witness: "Hariri was a big problem to Syria."

    "Approximately a month later the officer told the witness that there soon would be an `earthquake' that would rewrite the history of Lebanon," the report said.

    The report quoted another witness as saying Brig. Gen. Mustafa Hamdan, another of the four Lebanese generals under arrest, ended an October 2004 conversation by saying: "We are going to send him on a trip, bye, bye Hariri." The witnesses were not identified.

    Hariri's death set off huge anti-Syrian street protests in Lebanon and intense international pressure which forced Damascus to withdraw all its troops from Lebanon a few months later, ending nearly three decades of military domination.

    The report includes a single reference to Shawkat, Assad's brother-in-law who oversees all of Syria's domestic and foreign intelligence operations. According to one witness, Shawkat forced a man to tape a claim of responsibility for Hariri's killing 15 days before it occurred.

    That tape was aired on the al-Jazeera satellite channel the day of the blast but was discredited by the Mehlis investigators as an apparent attempt to divert attention from the real perpetrators. The man who made the tape, Abu Adass, left his home Jan. 16 and was likely taken to Syria, where he disappeared.

    The report documents in meticulous detail how Hariri's movements and phone conversations had been monitored for months. It casts suspicion on a decision by one of the four arrested Lebanese generals, Ali Hajj, to reduce Hariri's state security detail from 40 to eight in November 2004.

    Mehlis identified Sheik Ahmed Abdel-Al, a prominent figure in the pro-Syrian Al-Ahbash Sunni Muslim Orthodox group, as "a key figure in an ongoing investigation." Abdel-Al had extensive contacts with top Lebanese security officials before and after the blast, and tried to hide information from investigators.

    It was his brother — also a member of the same pro-Syrian group — who called Lahoud just before the blast.

    Mehlis said there were still many leads to follow before all the details of Hariri's killing will be known and asked for more time to work with Lebanese investigators. In a letter accompanying the report, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said he would extend Mehlis' investigation until Dec. 15.

    In one of the most critical parts of the report, Mehlis said Syria must cooperate if the continued investigation is to succeed.

    "If the investigation is to be completed, it is essential that the government of Syria fully cooperate with the investigating authorities, including by allowing interviews to be held outside Syria and for interviewees not to be accompanied by Syrian officials," Mehlis said.

    Syria's Information Minister Mehdi Dakhlallah said the report was "100 percent politicized" and "contained false accusations." Dakhlallah was speaking to Al-Jazeera television on Friday from the Syrian capital.

    There was not a single reference in the report to Syrian Interior Minister Ghazi Kenaan, who had been questioned by the Mehlis team. Kenaan, who was Syria's intelligence chief in Lebanon for 20 years and effectively controlled its government, was found dead in his office last week with a gunshot wound to his mouth.

    Officially, Syria said Kenaan committed suicide. But some in Lebanon and at least one veteran U.S. mediator for the Middle East suggested he may have been killed to try to cover up Syrian involvement in the Hariri assassination.

    U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said shortly after the report's release that the United States has "considered various contingencies" but would decide what to do next only after it had read the report and consulted with "other interested governments."

    "An initial reading of the report indicates some deeply troubling findings and clearly the report requires further discussion by the international community," U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

    The United States is also at loggerheads with Syria over its alleged support for Iraqi insurgents, accusing it of doing too little to stop foreign fighters from crossing into Iraq.
    A link to the UN report, in .pdf

    http://www.un.org/news/dh/docs/mehlisreport.pdf

  2. #2
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    Supposed to be surprising? It's a dictatorial Ba'athist regime trying desperately to hold onto power in the lebanese theatre. When Hariri was killed, intel agencies knew exactly who it was. Israeli intel tried to explain to the U.N. right away but no one wanted to listen. Now the U.N. is finally doing something and Syria is blaming the U.S. for starting "rumors". It was all to be expected

  3. #3
    MILITIA'GOY's Avatar
    MILITIA'GOY is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9
    Yes both me and my Lebanese brother Militiaguy who agree that again Israeli intelligence was first class.

    Israel, we both thank you.

  4. #4
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    being sarcastic about Israeli intel?

  5. #5
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Scotty, beam me up
    Posts
    14,223
    AIZ for not wanting the politics forum to exist you seem to enjoy participating

  6. #6
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    Johan, it was pointed out to me that there does exist a politics forum...so I found it and yes, enjoying it. I don't believe it belongs under "Steroid Questions". I look forward to the posts

  7. #7
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    There was no benefit for Syria to kill al-Hariri. I belive it was the work of Israel, for sure.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...part1.cnn&wm=9

    Here is a good interview with Bashar al-Assad on the situation.

  8. #8
    kis55's Avatar
    kis55 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    260
    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    There was no benefit for Syria to kill al-Hariri. I belive it was the work of Israel, for sure.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...part1.cnn&wm=9

    Here is a good interview with Bashar al-Assad on the situation.
    That interview is pure caliphate propaganda.

  9. #9
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Scotty, beam me up
    Posts
    14,223
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Johan, it was pointed out to me that there does exist a politics forum...so I found it and yes, enjoying it. I don't believe it belongs under "Steroid Questions". I look forward to the posts
    thats cool your post in making the board better sounded like you wanted to get rid of this politics forum.

  10. #10
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    Johan, not at all. I wanted to rid politics in the "steroid questions" area...doesn't belong there.

  11. #11
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    There was no benefit for Syria to kill al-Hariri. I belive it was the work of Israel, for sure.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...part1.cnn&wm=9

    Here is a good interview with Bashar al-Assad on the situation.

    You have got to be kidding me with this guy? Causasian, I don't think I have ever met a more uneducated (on the conflict) person as you. You sound like a Hamas member regurgitating Imam nonsense. Grow up and accept responsibility already. Israel killing Hariri???? You are so lost! And a video by Assad? A dictator's words is your argument?

  12. #12
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    Why would Syria kill Al-Hariri?

    There would be no point in it at all. There is no positive aspects in it.

    Syria is smart, they would know they would be the number 1 suspect in the kiling of Hariri. They would know a popular figure like him can unite the Lebanese population against Syria. And after all this Syria had to withdraw troops for the area.

    Who did this benefit the most?

    Israel.

    At the same time Israel pushed for the disarming of Hezbollah, and they are trying to weaken Hezbollah.

    Israel has been playing games with Lebanon for decades. It is pretty well know that Mossad had commited many targeted assasinations in Lebanon of Hamas and Islamic Jihad members in the same fashion Hariri was killed. By a bomb in the car.

    I am 100% certain that Mossad was behind the attacks.

    I am not one of those conspricacy theorists. If I belived Syria did it, I would say so. But I am 100% sure it wasnt Syria. But Mossad and Syrian elements working together to kill Hariri, to frame Syria. So they withdraw from Lebanon, thus weakning Hezbollah.

  13. #13
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Scotty, beam me up
    Posts
    14,223
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Johan, not at all. I wanted to rid politics in the "steroid questions" area...doesn't belong there.
    That I agree with fully

  14. #14
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    CAUSASIAN, You are 100% certain the Mossad is behind the attacks? Gosh, I'd love to be in your shoes with so much high level intel. You're connections must be amazing. As for Israel trying to disarm the Hezbollah...aside from fanatical arabs, who doesn't want the Hezbollah disarmed? The Lebanese surely do. With Syria's loss of power in Lebanon and the possibility of Hariri (anti-syrian) coming to power...Syria had a lot to lose...more than Israel has to benefit. Syrian and Israeli intel working together to kill a democratic, pro-free-Lebanese leader? Not a conspiracist?

  15. #15
    MilitiaGuy's Avatar
    MilitiaGuy is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Middle-East Lebanon
    Posts
    4,328
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    CAUSASIAN, You are 100% certain the Mossad is behind the attacks? Gosh, I'd love to be in your shoes with so much high level intel. You're connections must be amazing. As for Israel trying to disarm the Hezbollah...aside from fanatical arabs, who doesn't want the Hezbollah disarmed? The Lebanese surely do. With Syria's loss of power in Lebanon and the possibility of Hariri (anti-syrian) coming to power...Syria had a lot to lose...more than Israel has to benefit. Syrian and Israeli intel working together to kill a democratic, pro-free-Lebanese leader? Not a conspiracist?
    the resistance alliance (hezbollah and amal) have 22 deputies in the parliament in an election that happened under the UN umbrella , plus hezbollah have the bigest popular base in lebanon, hariri is anti syrian now yes but hariri is pro resistance weapons same thing with jumblat the durzi leaser,please make a search befor posting and replying, thank you!!

  16. #16
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    CAUSASIAN, You are 100% certain the Mossad is behind the attacks? Gosh, I'd love to be in your shoes with so much high level intel. You're connections must be amazing. As for Israel trying to disarm the Hezbollah...aside from fanatical arabs, who doesn't want the Hezbollah disarmed? The Lebanese surely do. With Syria's loss of power in Lebanon and the possibility of Hariri (anti-syrian) coming to power...Syria had a lot to lose...more than Israel has to benefit. Syrian and Israeli intel working together to kill a democratic, pro-free-Lebanese leader? Not a conspiracist?
    Lebanese Hezbollah is pretty popular with everyone, secular muslim/arabs and moderates. Al-Hariri was one of the strongest supporters of Hezbollah. And it was him that told the EU not to put them on the terrorist list. With his influence the EU didnt put Hezbollah in the terrorist list, making Israel angry.

    Israeli intel has worked with other groups in countries. Israeli Intelligence worked with Iranian Jews and Anti-Iranian elements in Iran to spy on Irans nuke programs. And they were caught. That is one example.

  17. #17
    Unoid is offline Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    956
    this just in on the 6 o clock news:

    Young Steroid user from Chechnya found blown to pieces from what it looks like as a suicide--homicide bombing attack.



    Cauc, admit it you're a ****ing anti US, anti Isreael terrorist support ****tard.

    bring your little ass to america and I'll gladly kill you to send you to your heaven.

  18. #18
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093

    Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    the resistance alliance (hezbollah and amal) have 22 deputies in the parliament in an election that happened under the UN umbrella , plus hezbollah have the bigest popular base in lebanon, hariri is anti syrian now yes but hariri is pro resistance weapons same thing with jumblat the durzi leaser,please make a search befor posting and replying, thank you!!

    The Hezbollah have the "biggest popular base" in SOUTH LEBANON. They are far from popular in the center and the north. The Lebanese have openly demonstrated against Hezbollah presence in Lebanon...after all, the majority of Hezbollah terrorists are not even lebanese...they're foreigners that have caused instability in someone else's country

  19. #19
    MilitiaGuy's Avatar
    MilitiaGuy is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Middle-East Lebanon
    Posts
    4,328
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    The Hezbollah have the "biggest popular base" in SOUTH LEBANON. They are far from popular in the center and the north. The Lebanese have openly demonstrated against Hezbollah presence in Lebanon...after all, the majority of Hezbollah terrorists are not even lebanese...they're foreigners that have caused instability in someone else's country
    hezbollah has the biggest popular base in beirut (south beirut) , south lebanaon, baalbek and bekaa valley. All hezbollah members and representative have the lebanese nationality and are born on the lebanese soil, some people have demonstrated against the syrian army presence in lebanon but not against hezbollah, hezbollah +amal have 22 deputies in the parliament, hezbollah have 2 ministers now in the new lebanese governement:
    1-ministry of electricity and water: "muhamad fneish" a hezbollah member.
    2-ministry of foreign affairs: "fawzi saloukh" very close to hezbollah.
    And if you want to make sure ask BOUNCER he was a UN officer in Lebanon and he may be objective.
    To bad for you there is a lebanese on the forum ready to stop your propaganda and prove you wrong in many occasions.
    Last edited by MilitiaGuy; 10-29-2005 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #20
    MilitiaGuy's Avatar
    MilitiaGuy is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Middle-East Lebanon
    Posts
    4,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Unoid
    this just in on the 6 o clock news:

    Young Steroid user from Chechnya found blown to pieces from what it looks like as a suicide--homicide bombing attack.



    Cauc, admit it you're a ****ing anti US, anti Isreael terrorist support ****tard.

    bring your little ass to america and I'll gladly kill you to send you to your heaven.
    Actually he live in USA and if you kill him they will send your butt to a prison where you will be someone's bitch!

  21. #21
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Unoid
    this just in on the 6 o clock news:

    Young Steroid user from Chechnya found blown to pieces from what it looks like as a suicide--homicide bombing attack.



    Cauc, admit it you're a ****ing anti US, anti Isreael terrorist support ****tard.

    bring your little ass to america and I'll gladly kill you to send you to your heaven.
    I am anti-Israeli, but not anti-American. If I was anti-American I would say it openly.

    And I currently live in the US. So now what?

  22. #22
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093

    To all: for knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    I am anti-Israeli, but not anti-American. If I was anti-American I would say it openly.

    And I currently live in the US. So now what?

    A reply to all those who find themselves in hatred of Israel:

    Fouad Ajami, a well-known Arab scholar has spoken on Arab-hatred of Israel. It’s not that they truly hate Israel but rather speak of hatred for Israel from their own lack of accomplishment. Even the oil rich Arab nations can’t get their societies organized and look at what this small nation has given to the world.

    The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year.

    Israeli date trees are now yielding 400 pounds/year and are short enough to be harvested from the ground or a short ladder.

    Israel the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

    The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

    Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.

    The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

    Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.

    The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

    Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

    Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

    The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

    Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S, Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.

    Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

    Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

    According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

    Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

    Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

    In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

    With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U. S.

    Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U. S.

    Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

    Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.

    The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

    On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.

    Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

    Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

    In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.

    When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

    When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims from the rubble.

    Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

    Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)

    Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

    Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

    Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a
    net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

    Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

    Medicine: Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

    An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

    Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.

    Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose a hearts mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

    Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

    A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the Clear Light device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.

    An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave desert.

    All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.

    AND THE FRENCH AMBASSADOR IN ENGLAND SAYS: "ISRAEL IS NOTHING BUT A SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY".



    A reply to all those who find themselves in hatred of Israel:

  23. #23
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    IRELAND.
    Posts
    7,772
    AIZ thats been posted here a few years back. Its old news.

  24. #24
    J.S.N.'s Avatar
    J.S.N. is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    all up in yo' buttho'
    Posts
    3,081
    yeah and it's all pretty much due to foreign aid.

  25. #25
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    Sorry bro, it's not all due to foreign aid. Most of the foreign aid (not the military aid) is spent by the government and NOT on private sector projects. Moreover, aid is an obstacle to Israeli economic growth and we, Israelis, are fully aware of this. The money the government receives from Israel, not far off from what Egypt receives, is utilized for numerous public sector projects. In the end, it hampers growth. Furthermore, before aid beganing flowing into Israel from the U.S., Israel's economic position rivaled that of the fast-growing economies of the Asian Tigers. Since the aid started, our economic growth rate has declined by half. What remarkable achievements we have made in medicine, science, philosophy, and hi-tech, are not b/c of monetary aid. Is is due to Israel's best resource: the brain.

  26. #26
    J.S.N.'s Avatar
    J.S.N. is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    all up in yo' buttho'
    Posts
    3,081
    since they aid started? it was always there.

  27. #27
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Is is due to Israel's best resource: the brain.
    Let me guess - genetically superior?

    The amount of aid Israel gets, for its population size, it should have invented a hoover craft by now.

  28. #28
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093
    The amount of aid that Egypt receives (number 2 after Israel)...should have bettered its population by now...the least they could have done. Egypt still has one of the worst economies in the ME but you fail you guys fail to mention Egypt, Jordan...convenient.

    Also, "since they started aid?" "It's always been there". Again...sorry, bro...aid began after the '67 war...20 years after Israel's independence.

  29. #29
    Alex2's Avatar
    Alex2 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    R these guns registered?!
    Posts
    1,433
    I’d like to participate in this interesting discussion. First, American aid to Israel started at 1949, not 1976! And the American aid to Israel is not close to its aid to Egypt! Egypt receives two-third of what Israel receives from the States. It is also worth to mention here that Israel’s population is 6 million and Egypt’s is 77 million. Also, corruption level in Arabic countries is very high so the governments do not utilize the money properly.
    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

    I agree with AIZ that Israeli air force is one of the most advanced in the world but one of the main reasons again is the US military aid. We all know that USA laws do not allow selling many advanced military technologies to any other country except Israel; AWAX radar planes is a good example. And when the US government decided to sell few of those planes to Saudi Arabia, Israeli government created a big issue because they didn’t want any other country in the world to have these planes except them. Similarly, when the American government sells F-16 jets to other countries than Israel, they do not provide those fighters with all the technologies they provide when they sell the same jets to Israel.

    I’m also wondering if the American aid to Israel has negative impact then why the Israeli government doesn’t ask the American government to stop the aid?!

    About the technology issues, yes, Israel is very advanced comparing to many other countries in the world. And truly, Israelis are one of the most hard workers I’ve ever seen! As a researcher, I was fortune to work with some of the best brains in my area (Computer Networking) and some of them were Israelis. I was really amazed by the amount of dedication they have, but it is not genetic because I have seen many dumbs too. I believe the Israeli government prepared a very good environment for them to work.

  30. #30
    transform is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    425
    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Let me guess - genetically superior?

    The amount of aid Israel gets, for its population size, it should have invented a hoover craft by now.

    id say most of the aid they get is to help their defence budget, because they need a big defence force in proportion to their population (ya know, because of their neighbours tryin to destroy them... but losing )

    one of the things i really admire about the jewish people is how they restored hebrew as their spoken language after it being dead for centuries. we tried restoring our native language here after independence but never managed to get it done.

  31. #31
    Rak_Ani's Avatar
    Rak_Ani is offline Queen of Zion
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    I’d like to participate in this interesting discussion. First, American aid to Israel started at 1949, not 1976! And the American aid to Israel is not close to its aid to Egypt! Egypt receives two-third of what Israel receives from the States. It is also worth to mention here that Israel’s population is 6 million and Egypt’s is 77 million. Also, corruption level in Arabic countries is very high so the governments do not utilize the money properly.
    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

    I agree with AIZ that Israeli air force is one of the most advanced in the world but one of the main reasons again is the US military aid. We all know that USA laws do not allow selling many advanced military technologies to any other country except Israel; AWAX radar planes is a good example. And when the US government decided to sell few of those planes to Saudi Arabia, Israeli government created a big issue because they didn’t want any other country in the world to have these planes except them. Similarly, when the American government sells F-16 jets to other countries than Israel, they do not provide those fighters with all the technologies they provide when they sell the same jets to Israel.

    I’m also wondering if the American aid to Israel has negative impact then why the Israeli government doesn’t ask the American government to stop the aid?!

    About the technology issues, yes, Israel is very advanced comparing to many other countries in the world. And truly, Israelis are one of the most hard workers I’ve ever seen! As a researcher, I was fortune to work with some of the best brains in my area (Computer Networking) and some of them were Israelis. I was really amazed by the amount of dedication they have, but it is not genetic because I have seen many dumbs too. I believe the Israeli government prepared a very good environment for them to work.
    Hi Alex,

    First of all we should all try to seperate the financial aid from the loans which Israel paid/pays back.

    Also, keep in mind that half the aid Israel gets is for military purposes, and that at the same time the US arms the army that most threatens Israel - the Egyptian army. Had the US not armed the Egyptians with their newest technology, Israel wouldn't have needed as much military aid. BTW, why are the Americans arming the Egyptians? Who do the Egptians have to defend themselves from? Their Arab brothers?

    Another thing, the US financial aid to Israel makes up no more than 3% of the Israeli budget, so as helpful as this aid is, I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me that it's not what's keeping Israel "alive".
    Last edited by Rak_Ani; 10-23-2005 at 06:20 PM.

  32. #32
    decadbal's Avatar
    decadbal is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    North Charlotte
    Posts
    11,924
    Free Ireland

  33. #33
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Scotty, beam me up
    Posts
    14,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    Hi Alex,

    First of all we should all try to seperate the financial aid from the loans which Israel paid/pays back.

    Also, keep in mind that half the aid Israel gets is for military purposes, and that at the same time the US arms the army that most threatens Israel - the Egyptian army. Had the US not armed the Egyptians with their newest technology, Israel wouldn't have needed as much military aid. BTW, why are the Americans arming the Egyptians? Who do the Egptians have to defend themselves from? Their Arab brothers?

    Another thing, the US financial aid to Israel makes up no more than 3% of the Israeli budget, so as helpful as this aid is, I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me that it's not what's keeping Israel "alive".
    They arm them probably becuase the military industries in the usa wants to make money
    Must be heaven for them. First they sell you high tech stuff and than they do the same to your enemies so you have to buy even more high tech shit. I bet us arms dealers wet there pants when they hear about more conflicts in the middle east

    Not trying to take any sides either, but with the thing I put in bold it sounds like you think its the obligation of the usa to give your country military aid.

  34. #34
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
    Kärnfysikern is offline Retired: AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Scotty, beam me up
    Posts
    14,223
    Isnt the avarage israeli IQ the highest in the world btw, or was that japan? No one can doubt the scientific achivements that jews have made. Just think einstein I think most nobel prizes has gone to jews aswell compared to any other ethnic group.

  35. #35
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    IRELAND.
    Posts
    7,772
    Quote Originally Posted by decadbal
    Free Ireland

    Thats a pipe dream now since the I.R.A. disarmed. Those British bastard's will never leave now.


  36. #36
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    IRELAND.
    Posts
    7,772
    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Let me guess - genetically superior?
    Probably!..


  37. #37
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093

    To Alex2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    I’d like to participate in this interesting discussion. First, American aid to Israel started at 1949, not 1976! And the American aid to Israel is not close to its aid to Egypt! Egypt receives two-third of what Israel receives from the States. It is also worth to mention here that Israel’s population is 6 million and Egypt’s is 77 million. Also, corruption level in Arabic countries is very high so the governments do not utilize the money properly.
    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

    I agree with AIZ that Israeli air force is one of the most advanced in the world but one of the main reasons again is the US military aid. We all know that USA laws do not allow selling many advanced military technologies to any other country except Israel; AWAX radar planes is a good example. And when the US government decided to sell few of those planes to Saudi Arabia, Israeli government created a big issue because they didn’t want any other country in the world to have these planes except them. Similarly, when the American government sells F-16 jets to other countries than Israel, they do not provide those fighters with all the technologies they provide when they sell the same jets to Israel.

    I’m also wondering if the American aid to Israel has negative impact then why the Israeli government doesn’t ask the American government to stop the aid?!

    About the technology issues, yes, Israel is very advanced comparing to many other countries in the world. And truly, Israelis are one of the most hard workers I’ve ever seen! As a researcher, I was fortune to work with some of the best brains in my area (Computer Networking) and some of them were Israelis. I was really amazed by the amount of dedication they have, but it is not genetic because I have seen many dumbs too. I believe the Israeli government prepared a very good environment for them to work.
    Alex2, welcome to this maniacal thread. I'll get back to you later. It's 8:30am in Israel and I'm at work. Holiday starts tonight so I'm on the run. Just a quick note: I never said genetically superior...that was Mr. ANTI-Israel (caucasian). I'll post my thoughts later....AIZ

  38. #38
    AIZ's Avatar
    AIZ
    AIZ is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Holy Land
    Posts
    3,093

    Alex2: a response

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    I’d like to participate in this interesting discussion. First, American aid to Israel started at 1949, not 1976! And the American aid to Israel is not close to its aid to Egypt! Egypt receives two-third of what Israel receives from the States. It is also worth to mention here that Israel’s population is 6 million and Egypt’s is 77 million. Also, corruption level in Arabic countries is very high so the governments do not utilize the money properly.
    http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

    I agree with AIZ that Israeli air force is one of the most advanced in the world but one of the main reasons again is the US military aid. We all know that USA laws do not allow selling many advanced military technologies to any other country except Israel; AWAX radar planes is a good example. And when the US government decided to sell few of those planes to Saudi Arabia, Israeli government created a big issue because they didn’t want any other country in the world to have these planes except them. Similarly, when the American government sells F-16 jets to other countries than Israel, they do not provide those fighters with all the technologies they provide when they sell the same jets to Israel.

    I’m also wondering if the American aid to Israel has negative impact then why the Israeli government doesn’t ask the American government to stop the aid?!

    About the technology issues, yes, Israel is very advanced comparing to many other countries in the world. And truly, Israelis are one of the most hard workers I’ve ever seen! As a researcher, I was fortune to work with some of the best brains in my area (Computer Networking) and some of them were Israelis. I was really amazed by the amount of dedication they have, but it is not genetic because I have seen many dumbs too. I believe the Israeli government prepared a very good environment for them to work.

    First, American aid to Israel started at 1949, not 1976! And the American aid to Israel is not close to its aid to Egypt! Egypt receives two-third of what Israel receives from the States.

    U.S. aid did begin but it was only economic, not military, and it amounted to approx 1 billion a year. Some of that aid was in grants, others in loans. The military aid began during Israel's preemptive/defensive war of '67. However, and this is on a very serious note: U.S. military aid to Israel is approximately 1.8 billion in military credit. That is, the U.S. defense industry earns that amount, every year, year after year. The money can only be spent in the U.S., adding to the U.S. economy. Furthermore, you said that Egypt's aid is 2/3rd of Israel's aid: U.S. economic aid to EGYPT is roughly 1.2 billion (Israel: 1.8). While most believe that Israel receives some annual check for 3 billion a year, that is simply untrue. That number, 3 billion is a fixed amount, which came after the 1st Camp David Accords in 1979. Being that it is fixed, it has been victim to inflation. Today, it equals roughly half of that amount. As for Egypt's population against Israel's population: It is irrelvant since Israel is the only liberal democracy in the ME and is surrounded by 22 Arab nations, many still in a state of war with Israel. Egypt is in no such position.

    I agree with AIZ that Israeli air force is one of the most advanced in the world but one of the main reasons again is the US military aid. We all know that USA laws do not allow selling many advanced military technologies to any other country except Israel

    U.S. aid absolutely helps Israel's airforce but in the economic realm mainly. It is Israeli technology that is the reason for the success of the airforce. The U.S. trains along side with the Israeli airforce precisely for this reason. The U.S. does sell advanced military equipment, not all, but some to a variety of countries...including Egypt.

    I’m also wondering if the American aid to Israel has negative impact then why the Israeli government doesn’t ask the American government to stop the aid?!

    That is a very good question. There is an answer, though. Many government officials call for an end to aid as do U.S. neoconservatives. The neocons want a strong Israel but an independent Israel. The same view is held on the left and right in Israel. One of the biggest issues is the military aid (1.8 Billion). The defense industry is one of the most successful lobbying groups in the U.S. They are, in no way, about to give up nearly 2 billion a year when that 2 billion serves their interests. A lot of aid pressure is not from Israel but rather from the U.S.

    About the technology issues, yes, Israel is very advanced comparing to many other countries in the world. And truly, Israelis are one of the most hard workers I’ve ever seen! As a researcher, I was fortune to work with some of the best brains in my area (Computer Networking) and some of them were Israelis. I was really amazed by the amount of dedication they have, but it is not genetic because I have seen many dumbs too. I believe the Israeli government prepared a very good environment for them to work.[/QUOTE]

    Israel is number 2 in the world when it comes to hi-technology in the fields of military, science, etc. Of course we have our "dumb" citizens...as does every country. I never claimed that Israel was the smartest country in the world nor that we are genetically gifted in some way. Rather, I was pointing out to the anti-Israel activists that Israel does far more to better the world, including the Arab-Muslim world, than it does harm. You, or others, may not agree with Israeli policy towards the Palestinians but then again...you don't live here and you have no idea what its like. Israel takes care of business...no pussyfooting with terrorists. We are surrounded by hostiles and we have no choice but to hit and hit hard. By the way, on a side note, more Palestinians died in the past year from internesciene violence and not by Israel. The best way to understand the Israel-Palestinian conflict is not via the mass media but rather non-biased academic works and studies. CNN, Fox News, etc show you what they want to show.

  39. #39
    transform is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    425
    Quote Originally Posted by decadbal
    Free Ireland



    Thanks

  40. #40
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
    CAUSASIAN is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Chechnya
    Posts
    6,130
    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    The amount of aid that Egypt receives (number 2 after Israel)...should have bettered its population by now...the least they could have done. Egypt still has one of the worst economies in the ME but you fail you guys fail to mention Egypt, Jordan...convenient.

    Also, "since they started aid?" "It's always been there". Again...sorry, bro...aid began after the '67 war...20 years after Israel's independence.
    Alex2 answered your question, but I will answer it also.

    Egypt and Jordan get aid from the US because they signed a peace treaty with Israel. Recently during the intifahda Egypt was going to cut of the peace ties, the US government retaliated by saying that Egypt wouldnt get aid. So to me, aid to Egypt is given to protect Israel.

    And look at the population size of Israel compared to Egypt. Its easier to manage a small country especially if you have money flowing from all areas, including governments like the US.

    Look at any company. If the company gets too big you need layoffs to keep profits high. And the better funded the company is the more research and technological advances they get, if they are underfunded, they are unproductive and go bankrupt.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •