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  1. #1
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    Tampa revokes ALL religious school holidays.

    A muslim group in Tampa wanted certain holy days recognized by the school board so the students could stay home and "participate". Instead of adding the muslim holidays, the school board voted to remove ALL religious holidays. The kids will still have a Christmas break, but Easter, Good Friday, Rosh, Yom Kippur. . . GONE! Not sure where I stand on this one, but I don't see why the kids can't go to school AND honor their religion either before school, after school or both. I don't think my Jewish friends spent Yom Kippur in temple all day. They went in the morning and spent the rest of the day at the beach!

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    There are as many Muslims as Jews in the US. So giving the Jews holidays, and not Muslims is unfair. This new rule seems fair.

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    I like it. It's a public school...they're trying to seperate church and state! You want prayer time...go to a private school that offers it.

    Plus it's not a Christmas break...it's a holiday break. Nothing religious about it anymore...except that it serves as a break in terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    There are as many Muslims as Jews in the US. So giving the Jews holidays, and not Muslims is unfair. This new rule seems fair.
    Really? It doesn't seem like there are nearly as many Muslims as Jews, but I still think it's better to just remove all the holidays and make everybody go to school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    Really? It doesn't seem like there are nearly as many Muslims as Jews, but I still think it's better to just remove all the holidays and make everybody go to school.
    Pretty much the same. There are more Muslims than Jews in the US by a slight number.

    Religious breakdown of the US.

    Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
    Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 11-04-2005 at 04:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Pretty much the same. There are more Muslims than Jews in the US by a slight number.

    Religious breakdown of the US.

    Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
    Wow, that's crazy. I NEVER would have guessed those stats. Why does it seem so much higher? Oh well, I learned something today. Thanks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    Wow, that's crazy. I NEVER would have guessed those stats. Why does it seem so much higher? Oh well, I learned something today. Thanks.
    you are ruled by a minority! yup they are 1% but they control many aspects in your life.

  8. #8
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    Were are losing alot of american tradition, if muslims dont like our culture, they can go somewhere else for instance a private school, or home schooling. There is no reason we should continue to give up American tradition to suite the needs of a select groop or groups. No offense Caus.. but I hope this country never allows public schools to honor muslim holidays. The liberals are doing a great job of what they do best. There will pry be more cases such as this one, which will give the ACLU a good chance of accomplishing just one of its many goals.

    ACLU co-founder, Roger Baldwin, once stated, “Communism is the goal… I don’t regret being part of the Communist tactic. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent Liberal.”

    Here is another good ex.

    In 2003, the ACLU sponsored a major conference titled "Human Rights at Home: International Law in U.S. Courts" at the Carter Center in Atlanta. A declared purpose of the conference was to "[use] international law and human rights norms to advance justice in U.S. courts." Far from featuring a collection of obscure leftists, invited panelists included Federal Judge Myron Thompson (of Justice Roy Moore fame) and U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer among many other leading jurists from around the country.

    The organizers did not view the conference as simply an academic exercise. ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero stated, "Our goal is no less than to forge a new era of social justice where the principles of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights are recognized and enforced in the United States."

    We are going to loose the sanctity of marriage soon thanks to the ACLU.


    The result is that today the ACLU is a leading advocate of same-sex "marriage," and has expressed support for polygamy and polyamory ("open" marriage) as well. The ACLU Policy Guide reads:

    The ACLU believes that criminal and civil laws prohibiting or penalizing the practice of plural marriage [polygamy or polyamory] violate constitutional protections of freedom of expression and association, freedom of religion, and privacy for personal relationships among consenting adults.

    While many accept the ACLU as a mainstream organization, their history tells a drastically different story. Organizations such as the ******** Defense Fund are dedicated to exposing the myth that the ACLU is working hard for the First Amendment rights of Americans. Instead of being an organization that simply took a "wrong turn," the ACLU has devoted itself from the very beginning to the devastation of America's most cherished traditions, values, and laws.



    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=45959

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    A muslim group in Tampa wanted certain holy days recognized by the school board so the students could stay home and "participate". Instead of adding the muslim holidays, the school board voted to remove ALL religious holidays. The kids will still have a Christmas break, but Easter, Good Friday, Rosh, Yom Kippur. . . GONE! Not sure where I stand on this one, but I don't see why the kids can't go to school AND honor their religion either before school, after school or both. I don't think my Jewish friends spent Yom Kippur in temple all day. They went in the morning and spent the rest of the day at the beach!

    wow, i usually favor secularisation of things and seperating church and state, but getting rid of all religious holidays seems drastic

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    It would be a terrible thing for both the family and society if the ACLU is succesful in redefining marriage. Society would begin to change drastically, I guarentee it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    A muslim group in Tampa wanted certain holy days recognized by the school board so the students could stay home and "participate". Instead of adding the muslim holidays, the school board voted to remove ALL religious holidays. The kids will still have a Christmas break, but Easter, Good Friday, Rosh, Yom Kippur. . . GONE! Not sure where I stand on this one, but I don't see why the kids can't go to school AND honor their religion either before school, after school or both. I don't think my Jewish friends spent Yom Kippur in temple all day. They went in the morning and spent the rest of the day at the beach!

    someone needs to sue their asses on bases of freedom to practice religion.
    i dotn see how unconvenient it would be for one day taken off for a religious holiday.

  12. #12
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    i wonder if a christian asked for the same thing in somalia, turkey, oman etc what would happen?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    It would be a terrible thing for both the family and society if the ACLU is succesful in redefining marriage. Society would begin to change drastically, I guarentee it.
    When that day comes, the ACLU will force you marry me, and Satan Himself will officiate at his center of operations in downtown Boston. You shall wear a pink lace chiffon gown. The ceremony will be televised around the globe, will be seen by every eye, and men everywhere will gaze upon our happiness, and will be irresistably moved to find another man to wed for themselves.

    -Tock
    Last edited by Tock; 11-04-2005 at 09:37 PM.

  14. #14
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    but i guess thats the beauty of the u.s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zOaib
    someone needs to sue their asses on bases of freedom to practice religion.
    i dotn see how unconvenient it would be for one day taken off for a religious holiday.
    It gets down to a fairness issue . . .

    If one religion gets to have official holidays recognized so that the school closes, then all the other religions get to have their holidays recognized the same way, as well. Wouldn't be long before the schools closed down all year long.

    Makes more sense to take a break at the semester halfway point, and let folks take their kids out for whatever occasion happens to come up.

    -Tock

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    sounds like bullshit to me

  17. #17
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    WAIT..actually now that i think about it, what religious days do any of your kids get off?? easter is on a sunday. i didnt get off good friday. and they still allow christmas break.. what else is there besides christmas? hehe. so isnt it the same? did your public schools get off for rosh or yom kippur?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    It gets down to a fairness issue . . .

    If one religion gets to have official holidays recognized so that the school closes, then all the other religions get to have their holidays recognized the same way, as well. Wouldn't be long before the schools closed down all year long.

    Makes more sense to take a break at the semester halfway point, and let folks take their kids out for whatever occasion happens to come up.

    -Tock
    i understand your point , my nephews took the EID holiday which was thursday from school and there teachers didnt have a problem , for them missing class and even allowed to let them have extra time to catch up whatever they missed , and this is in bravard county , miami i am talking about not too far form tampa , so i guess instead of pppl making this a whole big issue i dont think the cschool has a problem delaing with individual cases , only if they dont make a big scene out of it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Were are losing alot of american tradition, if muslims dont like our culture, they can go somewhere else for instance a private school, or home schooling. There is no reason we should continue to give up American tradition to suite the needs of a select groop or groups. No offense Caus.. but I hope this country never allows public schools to honor muslim holidays.
    Since when is Jewish Holidays American Tradition? If Jews get a holiday, muslims should to.

    I know people that recently took a day of for Eid (Muslim Holiday) and their absense was excused.

  20. #20
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    I think there should be no school holidays....

    Let the little boogers go to school 5 days a week 52 weeks a year!!!



  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Were are losing alot of american tradition, if muslims dont like our culture, they can go somewhere else for instance a private school, or home schooling. There is no reason we should continue to give up American tradition to suite the needs of a select groop or groups.
    First, you are argueing over principal, kids dont celebrate this crap, they are just glad they arent in school. We should eliminate these ridiculous holidays in public schools and perhaps start some kind of system where students have a set ammount of days they can take for legitimate religious holiday off time, able to be used when ever their religion requires them to be out of school. That way, more reasonable and logical parents could get their way, and the religious fanatics could still have theirs.

    Second, books, We aren't losing American tradition, we are losing christian tradition. The muslims are just as wrong as you are books. So while something like "one nation under god" in the pledge may constitute a tradition, forcing everyone to act in accordance with a christian holy day is not tradition, it's ludicrious. If you want religious holy days in schools books555, I suggest you take your own advice and seek private or home schooling.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    Wow, that's crazy. I NEVER would have guessed those stats. Why does it seem so much higher? Oh well, I learned something today. Thanks.
    It seems higher b/c you live in a Judeo-Christian society...not a Muslim society. And it is not b/c of MilitiaGAY's response that you are ruled by a 1% minority..there is no Jewish cabal. We Jews, not all of course, but a huge percentage of us, are taught from a very young age to excel in school and do the best you can for the future. Jewish parents are known to push their children pretty hard in school and thats probably why you see so many Jews in high positions. It's not b/c of a conspiracy but b/c of education.

  23. #23
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    again i ask, do your kids really get all these religious holidays off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    It seems higher b/c you live in a Judeo-Christian society...not a Muslim society. And it is not b/c of MilitiaGAY's response that you are ruled by a 1% minority..there is no Jewish cabal. We Jews, not all of course, but a huge percentage of us, are taught from a very young age to excel in school and do the best you can for the future. Jewish parents are known to push their children pretty hard in school and thats probably why you see so many Jews in high positions. It's not b/c of a conspiracy but b/c of education.
    The "Judeo" part was added in recently, and was never called that in early American history.

    Most of the 1% Jews in the US can probably be found in Politics and the Entertainment industry. Basically they can be found in places with a big audience.

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    Actually, George Washington among others had a very deep and fond respect for the Jewish People. While we are involved in politics and entertainment, we are also involved deeply in the humanitarian sector, medicine, science, and much more...just like the rest of Americans. In other words, our jobs are exactly the same as other Americans...you just see a Jew so its different. We are simply a part of the 300 million American population

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    It seems higher b/c you live in a Judeo-Christian society...not a Muslim society. And it is not b/c of MilitiaGAY's response that you are ruled by a 1% minority..there is no Jewish cabal. We Jews, not all of course, but a huge percentage of us, are taught from a very young age to excel in school and do the best you can for the future. Jewish parents are known to push their children pretty hard in school and thats probably why you see so many Jews in high positions. It's not b/c of a conspiracy but b/c of education.
    Well, I also think it's evolutionary in a sense. I was on a trip to California recently and was asked my nationality. Upon telling the person i was Persian, their response was "Why are ALL Persians loaded?". Some might plug "Jews" into this question as well. I think that it is the wealthier, more educated, more intelligent and more ingenious members of these and other foreign cultures that have the opportunity to immigrate. In other words the cream of the crop of foreign cultures immigrate here to the states and represent their respective races well.

    So outside of the hightened visibility associated with these races, I also thought the sheer # was higher. I believe there are more than one million Persians alone in California let alone all other mid-east races and ther other 49 states.

  27. #27
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    In sweden we have thursday and friday off during the easter week and christmas offcourse. We also have one or 2 more religious days off but cant for the life of me remember what days. Other holidays are not religious(well some is linked to pagan traditions).

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    Politically Correctness!!!!!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    First, you are argueing over principal, kids dont celebrate this crap, they are just glad they arent in school. We should eliminate these ridiculous holidays in public schools and perhaps start some kind of system where students have a set ammount of days they can take for legitimate religious holiday off time, able to be used when ever their religion requires them to be out of school. That way, more reasonable and logical parents could get their way, and the religious fanatics could still have theirs.

    Second, books, We aren't losing American tradition, we are losing christian tradition. The muslims are just as wrong as you are books. So while something like "one nation under god" in the pledge may constitute a tradition, forcing everyone to act in accordance with a christian holy day is not tradition, it's ludicrious. If you want religious holy days in schools books555, I suggest you take your own advice and seek private or home schooling.


    How did you come to your conclusion on your first sentence?

    Religious holiday off time would still violate "seperation of church and state" according to your ideology. It would be a system created for those who have a worldview they celebrate.


    ----"more reasonable and logical parents could get their way"
    THis statement is false." Truth has it basis in God. A person who does not believe in God cannot make any Objective statements with out being contradictory. Therefor your objection is meaningless. A parent who holds to the atheistic worldview could be called foolish, she would be using reason and logic in attempt to pove her view correct vs. competing views. Logic and truth only exist if God exists. (I assume you are trying to say that it is more reasonable for parents to protect there children from a belief in God). Reason and logic donot exist apart from a omniscent God, but God is what your trying to disprove rather than prove. The problem is, you have excluded the very cause (God) who is the very cornerstone which gives your statements meaning (statements true or false)

    ( I am assuming you donot believe in God, if you did, then you wouldnt be making these types of comments)


    What is your definition of a fanatic. If you are calling me a fanatic, take a look at many of your statements hostile to christianity. Atheistic fanatic amaybe, I dont know. I respect you, take no offense. I have trouble believing that any sane human being could be a atheist, especially if they understand all the baggage that comes with it. "Time +Matter+Chance created the human intellect". I dont understand how someone could actually come to this conclusion, It would almost seem that "they have predetermined there position (atheism) and no amount of evidence could knock it out of them.

    The atheist attempts to use logic, rationalism, ect. to disprove Gods existence. But true Logic only exists if God exists. Do you see the problem. In attempting to disprove Gods existence, they end up proving Gods existence by using knowledge (which they believe is true) that cannot exist apart from a infinite being.


    My last statements is referring to ( -A +Theism) Atheism: no God

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
    I like it. It's a public school...they're trying to seperate church and state! You want prayer time...go to a private school that offers it.

    Plus it's not a Christmas break...it's a holiday break. Nothing religious about it anymore...except that it serves as a break in terms.
    The best point I've seen in this thread so far. Mark

  31. #31
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    "The ubiquitous American Civil Liberties Union, ever present to eradicate belief from the public square, lent its oppressive muscle to those who denied any government or state agency the freedom to put up a Christmas tree, or children to sing Christmas carols in schools. In keeping with that hollowness, a vacuous ceremonial pronouncement came at the lighting for the “People’s Tree” on Capitol Hill. This way the ceremony only offended the people for whom the tree was a celebration of the true meaning of Christmas and protected the rights of those who want the benefits of the season without the reason.


    "One civil libertarian, yes, one, demanded of a school in New Jersey that no Christmas tunes be played because it was not just the words that offended his sensitivities but the melodies as well. I heard one well-known talk-show host, a guru of psychological harmony and wellbeing, acknowledge that she would be offended if she were wished a “Merry Christmas.” Is the day coming when someone will be uncomfortable with “Good Morning” as a greeting because the word “good” is a derivative of God and they would not want to offend an atheist?


    "To be sure, this bigotry has come from our new cultural ethos of tolerance—something by which cultural liberals mean a society that allows only their views to be expressed in public while banishing everyone else’s views to their private chambers. And so the “Happy Holidays” rolled in on the heels of “Turkey Day” with the spirited haters of the season venting their vitriol against those whom they castigate for “audaciously claiming” these to be religious holidays. (Fortunately, most of them do not realize that the very word “holiday” is derived from the word “holy” or that would send them poring through a revisionist dictionary to re-baptize that word as well!) This microcosm is only a small portion of the bigger picture: Western civilization is on the verge of spiritual bankruptcy as it moves steadily towards cultural suicide.

    Take these statements by Ravi seriously


    "Those who seek to change our vocabulary are gradually eradicating the relationship between truth and culture, between the past and the present. They want to remove all markers that brought us this far. They should be sure that if they continue in this way the very worldview they have put into place will one day eradicate them as well. Do you remember the words of Martin Niemoller who tried to warn those who remained silent to the Nazi atrocities? He said,

    First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."


    Those who wipe out the memory of the Christian faith will find out that the logic of their position may one day lead someone to wipe them out as well, and there will be no belief left to come to their aide, for there will be no one left with reason to speak of loving those who despise you."

    This is a brilliant article, Ravi is a mountian concerning philosophy of the mind and culture. Read the whole article

    http://www.rzim.org/publications/jttran.php?seqid=101

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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    Religious holiday off time would still violate "seperation of church and state" according to your ideology. It would be a system created for those who have a worldview they celebrate.

    Church and state are clearly not separated now, some government officials still use religion to argue against abortion laws, and cut funding to blasphemes scientists. At least my way doesn't force people to work around one religions calendar year. and Yes, it would be a system for those who have a worldview they celebrate; Did you think I want to deny people the right to celebrate religious holiday?

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    Quote Originally Posted by books555


    ----"more reasonable and logical parents could get their way"
    yeah, that was my arrogant side creeping in, I really didn't mean to include that as point in my arguement. I'll try to be more concious of that crap in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by books555
    "The ubiquitous American Civil Liberties Union, ever present to eradicate belief from the public square,
    I'll bet you didn't know the ACLU has gone to court to defend Churches (even Fundamentalists) from intrusive meddling from the gov't.
    Nevertheless, it's true.

    Check out their website for details if you're interested.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    I'll bet you didn't know the ACLU has gone to court to defend Churches (even Fundamentalists) from intrusive meddling from the gov't.
    Nevertheless, it's true.

    Check out their website for details if you're interested.

    -Tock
    the ACLU is the most American organization there is. Recently neocons/zionists have attacked the ACLU but the ACLU follows true AMERICAN principles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    the ACLU is the most American organization there is. Recently neocons/zionists have attacked the ACLU but the ACLU follows true AMERICAN principles.

    As long as you don't ask them to help you with a Second Amendment case.

    They are just like a lot of other political groups, they have their own agenda.

  37. #37
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    the ACLU is the most American organization there is. Recently neocons/zionists have attacked the ACLU but the ACLU follows true AMERICAN principles.
    I agree it seems people really only have a problem with the ACLU when they are representing an interest someone doesn't agree with. In America by definition we are supposed to be a "melting pot" of cultures ideas a "mongrel" nation if you will but by that very diversity we are made stronger. or at least thats the idea - It seems when a particular viewpoint "special interest" gets too much power that idea wanes and the more powerful "X" group might become politically the worse off as a nation we seem to get.

    Originally posted by Books555

    "We are going to loose the sanctity of marriage soon thanks to the ACLU.

    The result is that today the ACLU is a leading advocate of same-sex "marriage," and has expressed support for polygamy and polyamory ("open" marriage) as well. The ACLU Policy Guide reads:"
    "sanctity of marriage"
    Number of marriages: 2,187,000
    Marriage rate: 7.5 per 1,000 total population
    Divorce rate: 3.8 per 1,000 population
    (46 reporting States and D.C.)
    -As of Nov 5, 2005
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

    "Marriage" in America today is about as sacred as our Holidays. More then half end in Divorce, its like returns for gifts that suck at Christmas time.

    Personally I am very thankful we have a group like the ACLU who steadfastly protect the rights and interests of ALL Americans, not just the ones you, or you or we might agree with.
    Last edited by Vosh; 11-08-2005 at 02:54 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    As long as you don't ask them to help you with a Second Amendment case.

    They are just like a lot of other political groups, they have their own agenda.
    The Second Amendment has the NRA to look after it. The First Amendment, and others, have only the ACLU looking after it. That's the major reason why they focus their efforts elsewhere, where it's most needed.

    -Tock

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    As long as you don't ask them to help you with a Second Amendment case.

    They are just like a lot of other political groups, they have their own agenda.
    The Second Amendment has the NRA to look after it. The First Amendment, and others, have only the ACLU looking after it. That's the major reason why they focus their efforts elsewhere, where it's most needed.

    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMYL_GR8
    I was on a trip to California recently and was asked my nationality. Upon telling the person i was Persian, their response was "Why are ALL Persians loaded?"
    I know one Iranian guy in New Jersey, he is a very good friend of mine. He is 24 years old, has a 900,000 dollar house, and has a BMW. He took only 2 years in community college. I will agree Iranians know how to make money.

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