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  1. #1
    alphaman's Avatar
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    Have any of you seen this website?

    Check out the history of Christiantity. I would like the opinions of those who are Christians and knowledgable on this topic.


    http://www.religioustolerance.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    Check out the history of Christiantity. I would like the opinions of those who are Christians and knowledgable on this topic.


    http://www.religioustolerance.org/

    i couldnt find the topic , can u link that page here thx !

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    the question here is indeed , that that is pretty much on target in the sense that , there are different christian beliefs and organizations that follow those beliefs , plus the selectiveness of what to include in the bible and what not to also is responsible for this seperation of many different christian beleifs , a very unbiased article , good for info definately .

    good post !

  5. #5
    alphaman's Avatar
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    Thanks, Zoaib.

    It's a little disappointing that I saw a couple Christiians in this thread, yet no responses. I have had a little trouble with my faith over the past few years because of some of the things posed in this article (not from this article, I just found this site). My family and I recently started attending a church on Sundays, and the services are starting to get to me, but I have sticking points- such as the Catholic Church deciding what went into the Bible, and what didn't. I could go on and on about the corruption of the Catholic Church, and it's political motives in the past and blah blah blah.... But I've done that in this forum before.....

    I just want a good explanation of all this. If I want to go to church, walk with God, and have fellowship with other Christians, I'm going to have to make some sense of all this. Because the bottom line is: All Christian churches (that I know of) use the scriptures that were chosen by the Catholic Church.

  6. #6
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    I would love to answer but I cannot get that page to load. The page loads but it is blank. I tried several times.

    I do want to comment on something you said and I hope I did not misunderstand you on this..

    <quote>
    All Christian churches (that I know of) use the scriptures that were chosen by the Catholic Church.</quote>


    Now the way I read this you are thinking/saying that Christian churches follow Catholic doctrine? I pray to God that this is not true. I know what I am about to say is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but the Catholic religious as as much of a Cult as Mormon's and Jehovah Witness's.

    Why would I say this? Well Catholics pray to idols. The Catholics pray to Mary?!?! why?? Yes she was a blessed woman and was pure and loved God so God chose her to have his son Jesus.. that is all, end of story. Mary has no power, Mary has no say so in your eternal destination. The Catholic religion also has you go to the priest to forgive you for your sins. Priests are only men not gods and they have no power to forgive sin, only God can do this and by the Catholic church saying that they can they are putting priests up there on the same level as God. (I don't want to answer for that one)

    Catholics are a political group which shrouds itself in the cloak of Christianity for the sake for appearances but they have an agenda like any other political party does.


    also Catholics like many other cults believe you must WORK to gain salvation and it is not a free gift under Grace.

    Here is a good site to gain some insight on why they are a cult.

    http://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm


    Oldman
    Last edited by oldman; 11-16-2005 at 08:25 AM.

  7. #7
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    Also the Catholic church is based on the fact that they say Peter was the first "POPE" and was basically a God in flesh here on earth to rule/forgive sin/whatever and all the pope's from that time to today have the same power so again they think that Pope is God and can forgive sin.. UGH!!

    Peter was not God, Peter was not a "pope" Peter was a a follower of JC, a faithful servant but again end of story, he had no power other than the power that the Hold Spirit when it went into him to do the work of God.

    this might explain what I mean better.

    http://www.bible.ca/cath-peter=pope.htm

  8. #8
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    Its nice to see other beliefs as some do not express, not unlike me, as it is hard to put into words.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    I would love to answer but I cannot get that page to load. The page loads but it is blank. I tried several times.

    I do want to comment on something you said and I hope I did not misunderstand you on this..

    <quote>
    All Christian churches (that I know of) use the scriptures that were chosen by the Catholic Church.</quote>


    Now the way I read this you are thinking/saying that Christian churches follow Catholic doctrine? I pray to God that this is not true. I know what I am about to say is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but the Catholic religious as as much of a Cult as Mormon's and Jehovah Witness's.

    Why would I say this? Well Catholics pray to idols. The Catholics pray to Mary?!?! why?? Yes she was a blessed woman and was pure and loved God so God chose her to have his son Jesus.. that is all, end of story. Mary has no power, Mary has no say so in your eternal destination. The Catholic religion also has you go to the priest to forgive you for your sins. Priests are only men not gods and they have no power to forgive sin, only God can do this and by the Catholic church saying that they can they are putting priests up there on the same level as God. (I don't want to answer for that one)

    Catholics are a political group which shrouds itself in the cloak of Christianity for the sake for appearances but they have an agenda like any other political party does.


    also Catholics like many other cults believe you must WORK to gain salvation and it is not a free gift under Grace.

    Here is a good site to gain some insight on why they are a cult.

    http://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm


    Oldman

    I agree with pretty much everything you've said here, but the Catholic Church did decide what was going in the Bible, and what wasn't.

    In the first two centuries after Christ's death, there were over 80 gospels and hundreds of epistles written. Many of these books had conflicting views. In the fourth century, the Catholic Church had councils where they decided what the official beliefs of the church were going to be, and also which of these books were going into the official canon (The Bible).

  10. #10
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    I have some mixed feelings on what you have said on Who decided on what went in the bible but I will do more research so I can better give my opinion on this. I am not saying I am right or wrong on this I actually never looked too deep into this.

    Based on this info I would see where that idea would come from.

    Eventually one of the leaders, Bishop Athanasius, in his Easter letter to his Christian group in AD 376, produced the list that became accepted as what we call the New Testament. An important Christian conference in Rome approved his list in AD 382 and another important conference in the north-African city of Carthage in AD 397 approved his list.

    By face value this Bishop was of the Catholic church so I am going to have to do much more reading. If I took a stab in the dark I would say yes they did have a say so but at that time they were less "corrupt" than now. that is not the exact wording I am trying to get at but I will try to be more clear shortly. The problem today with believing in God is all the darn religion gets in the way.

  11. #11
    alphaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    I have some mixed feelings on what you have said on Who decided on what went in the bible but I will do more research so I can better give my opinion on this. I am not saying I am right or wrong on this I actually never looked too deep into this.

    Based on this info I would see where that idea would come from.

    Eventually one of the leaders, Bishop Athanasius, in his Easter letter to his Christian group in AD 376, produced the list that became accepted as what we call the New Testament. An important Christian conference in Rome approved his list in AD 382 and another important conference in the north-African city of Carthage in AD 397 approved his list.

    By face value this Bishop was of the Catholic church so I am going to have to do much more reading. If I took a stab in the dark I would say yes they did have a say so but at that time they were less "corrupt" than now. that is not the exact wording I am trying to get at but I will try to be more clear shortly. The problem today with believing in God is all the darn religion gets in the way.
    I think that when you study further, you'll find that they were more corrupt then.

    I'll post some more info on what I'm speaking of, and I'll copy and paste since the links aren't working for you!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    I think that when you study further, you'll find that they were more corrupt then.

    I'll post some more info on what I'm speaking of, and I'll copy and paste since the links aren't working for you!

    Nothing surprises me. I kind of look at the Catholic church the same as the Pharisees and Sadducee's were like prior to JC's death. Their whole deal was to look and feel important and "better" than everyone else. They had our Lord right there and they were to blind to see it or maybe to arrogant to accept it.


    Oldman

  13. #13
    alphaman's Avatar
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    After some studying, I think I am a little closer to my answer, and I feel good about that.

    I stated out looking for evidence that the Catholic Church was behind the choosing of the books that are in the Bible. You can find that from sites that are biased toward the Catholic Church, but not anywhere else. Unbiased research sites refer to early church leaders or fathers, but not specifically "Catholic". The Roman Catholic Church, specifically, is where all the screwed up conspiracies, and the diversion from a personal relationship with Christ lie. And it's funny, because when you read wht they have to say, you would beleive it just as I thought it was. They claim that Peter went straight to Rome in the first century, and was the first Pope, and that it's been the center piece for everything that's happened since. That's not so.

    So, after searching further, I found that the word "catholic" comes from a greek word that means "universal", or "of the whole world". In early Christian times everyone was Catholic.

    The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the corrupted church we are speaking of. The Pope in Rome couldn't speak for the entire Church (giving it the power that I was thinking it had at the time of the choosing of the books in the Bible) until long after.

    Even still, it discourages me to know that there were all these other writings, and that they picked and chose what was in an what wasn't. But I'm comforted by the fact that the Catholic Church I had in mind wasn't the one who decided, I guess.

    I feel kinda dumb, because my predjudice views toward the RCC are based on my Protestant views that have been passed down from earlier generations in my family, and I didn't really know the whole story. When I stood back and looked objectively at the history, the way I was thinking about it didn't make sense. I've read too much conspiracy bs too!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    Even still, it discourages me to know that there were all these other writings, and that they picked and chose what was in an what wasn't.
    Not only picked and chose, but the whole thing was voted on. And the vote wasn't unanimous.
    -Tock

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Not only picked and chose, but the whole thing was voted on. And the vote wasn't unanimous.
    -Tock

    Are you referring to the council of Nicea? Or the councils of Hippo and Carthage?

  16. #16
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    I am still reading this but this was given to me by a trust christian pastor. He said this may not answer all the questions for us but it give a good biblical history of how, when and why.

    http://www.theapologiaproject.org/HOWBIBLE.PDF

    It is a lot of reading and I just got started. It may not be what we are looking for but something you might look over.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    Are you referring to the council of Nicea? Or the councils of Hippo and Carthage?
    Carthage and Trent.

    http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?...blical%20canon

    http://www.alabamaatheist.org/awaren.../biblesays.htm

  18. #18
    alphaman's Avatar
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    The first link is accurate. The second link is not credible in my opinion. Faith aside, speaking objectively.

    Sites that have an agenda like that hardly ever use credible sources, and it looks like that's the case with that one.

    Edit- As far as inaccuracy, I'm speaking of the reference to the vote. I'm open to the idea from a more reliable source. The Septuagint I won't argue with. Those books were added (only to the Roman Catholic Bible) when the reformation movement came about. As I understand it, they were meant to justify all of the crap the protestants were saying wasn't right about the Catholics.
    Last edited by alphaman; 11-17-2005 at 11:18 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    The first link is accurate. The second link is not credible in my opinion. Faith aside, speaking objectively.

    Sites that have an agenda like that hardly ever use credible sources, and it looks like that's the case with that one.
    I agree . . . but it was sorta interesting, nonetheless.

    -Tock

  20. #20
    alphaman's Avatar
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    I found this site today. Very good info.........


    http://www.ntcanon.org/

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