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  1. #1
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Would you consider this a continuation of yourself?

    In sci-fi litterature a poplular concept is to store the memories of a person and put it into a clone of the original human when the original human die.

    But would this realy be "you" that goes on living??

    Imagine having a computer chip in your head that stores all your memores, sensations ect, like a backup harddrive. You die in a accident but the chip is salvaged and all the memories is put into a freshly cloned copy of yourself.
    When the clone wakes up with those memories is that clone a continuation of your consciousness or just a copy? Is it "you" that wake up or are "you" dead??

    At first I am inclinced to say it is just a copy. But then I remember the fact that all the cells in our bodies become completely replaced in a matter of months, maby it was years. Cant remember. But it still means the you of today is just cellulary a copy of the you from 3 years ago. But you of today is defenetly a continuation of you from 3 years ago....

  2. #2
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    To emphasis the second part of my post. If you went into a coma today and woke up in like 3 years you would not have one single cell left(I might be wrong on this though) from when you went into the coma.

    How would this be different from dying and having memories saved and put into a clone body.

  3. #3
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    We are a creation of our memories. So any other "body" with all my memories becomes me. So I belive it is a continuation of myself.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    We are a creation of our memories. So any other "body" with all my memories becomes me. So I belive it is a continuation of myself.
    what if I put your memories into two identical clones after your death. Which one of them will be the contiunation of your consciousness?

  5. #5
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    johan you ever read about "Ship of Theseus", the philosophy analogy.

  6. #6
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    No I have never even heard of it to be honest. Does it touch on this topic??

    This is a thing I have been thinking about for a long time and I cant decide if my consciousness would be dead when the clone continues to live.

  7. #7
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    No I have never even heard of it to be honest. Does it touch on this topic??

    This is a thing I have been thinking about for a long time and I cant decide if my consciousness would be dead when the clone continues to live.
    I will try and find a story that my philosophy teacher told me. The story goes almost exaclty like your analogy. Where they take one persons brain and put it to a different body.

    The Ship of Theseus kind of touches on this topic. It asks what makes an object or person. If we get a haircut are we the same person as before, becuase we loose cells in our hair. If we loose a leg, are we the same person as the person with the leg.

    Lets say I have a car called - Zoom. And lets say I replace the engine, does Zoom still stay Zoom. Now what if I change the wheels, the transmission doesnt it still stay Zoom or does it become a different "car".

    First I think we have to define what makes us "us".

  8. #8
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    that is a book I have to pic up.

    Defining what makes us us is a realy hard thing to get a grasp on.

  9. #9
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    dont have time to comment, BUT, can you get a copy of "battlestar gallactica"?? Its a sci fi series and kinda fits to this subject...at first you dont know it, but it looks like its turning into having a religious theme. basis of story is man created these robots, then after some time, robots annihilate all mankind except for a small fleet of people who jump across space, but are hunted by the robots. these robots now look like man and sometimes get on the ships. and when they do (the ones that look like man are the most advanced, and there are only like 15, but they bleed, feel pain, eat, etc) they are now talking about god, and you'll have to see it. getting interresting.

  10. #10
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    do you mean the old battlestar gallactica or the new?? Il try to download the episodes.

    If you got time to comment some day I would like to hear it

  11. #11
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    it would not be you because your soul would be lost after death, if there is ever a time when we as humans can choose to do this it would cause to much chaos first off you cannot play GOD and second it would cost to much

  12. #12
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    Well, I supose it would depend on an individuals definition of "self"; people believe some crazy egotistical things. I think it would be your self, how ever it would not be you. Your cell replenishment example is a part of you, your body, so it is still quintessentially you because the regeneration is a part of what you are.

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    I know I don't even have a handle on all of my memories, but my "self" is affected by all experience. I couldn't say, but if I were to choose a side, I would say no.

    Are you speaking of an organic clone? One made from an embryo? When and how would you duplicate or implant memories and experiences?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve0
    it would not be you because your soul would be lost after death, if there is ever a time when we as humans can choose to do this it would cause to much chaos first off you cannot play GOD and second it would cost to much
    Cost wouldnt be a issue. So many would want the oppertunity that prices would be pushed down if such a technology ever got possible. I dont se how it is playing god though.


    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron
    Well, I supose it would depend on an individuals definition of "self"; people believe some crazy egotistical things. I think it would be your self, how ever it would not be you. Your cell replenishment example is a part of you, your body, so it is still quintessentially you because the regeneration is a part of what you are.
    But if you take a steem cell from your body and grow a new body from it isnt that basicly the same??

    What about this scenario. You have a clone and both of you are linked mentaly with some kind of technology so you share a consiousness. You feel, sense ect with both your original body and the clone body. I dont mean it as telepathy or some kind of comunciation, you are both bodies. Now someone puts a gun to your real body and blows your brains out and only the clone is left. Would this be you? Even though your body is dead your consiousness has been in 2 bodies and now is forced back to only one. Your thoughs have flowed through both brains.

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    I know I don't even have a handle on all of my memories, but my "self" is affected by all experience. I couldn't say, but if I were to choose a side, I would say no.

    Are you speaking of an organic clone? One made from an embryo? When and how would you duplicate or implant memories and experiences?
    Yeah Im talking about a complete genetic copy and I dont know how the memories would be copied, some future biotech advancement this is just a hypotethical situation where technological troubbles are set aside.

    You would have a chip in your head that constantly backsup your memories and maby a external memorybank just incase you die in such a way that even your chip gets destroyed.

  15. #15
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    first season. and the new robots, when they die, their "soul"/memory is transferred to another of their same kind. For example, there are i think 3 of each..so 3 johans that look just like you and have same personality, 3 tocks, 3 each kind. i dont know what happens when the lst of the kind dies though.

  16. #16
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    Well, i think this discussion is going to be separated by those who believe in souls and those who dont.

    Looking at this with my belief in souls, I dont think that a transfer of just our memories is enough. first off i dont believe we can live without a soul. but if i overlook that. I dont believe like causasion said that we are a product of our memories. I believe our memories HELP define us, but are not the underlying factor. This can be demonstrated in those who have, for one reason or another, lost their memory. Does their personality change? no. yet they dont have any of their memories. are they all of a sudden a different person? no. so if they are the same person without the memories as they were before, it cancels itself out and what are we left with? i believe our soul. i believe our body is just a vehicle. if we could transfer memories between 2 people that are still living, i think wed see #1 behave like youd think #2 would act and vice versa.

    (ps: sorry i havnt been able to contribute as much lately..been busy at work...get home at like 6, workout, eat at 7:30, bed at 9:30pm, and up again at 5am. bah!)

  17. #17
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Well, i think this discussion is going to be separated by those who believe in souls and those who dont.

    Looking at this with my belief in souls, I dont think that a transfer of just our memories is enough. first off i dont believe we can live without a soul. but if i overlook that. I dont believe like causasion said that we are a product of our memories. I believe our memories HELP define us, but are not the underlying factor. This can be demonstrated in those who have, for one reason or another, lost their memory. Does their personality change? no. yet they dont have any of their memories. are they all of a sudden a different person? no. so if they are the same person without the memories as they were before, it cancels itself out and what are we left with? i believe our soul. i believe our body is just a vehicle. if we could transfer memories between 2 people that are still living, i think wed see #1 behave like youd think #2 would act and vice versa.

    (ps: sorry i havnt been able to contribute as much lately..been busy at work...get home at like 6, workout, eat at 7:30, bed at 9:30pm, and up again at 5am. bah!)
    The soul defenetly comes into play here.

    If this technology would become aviable in the future. Would you get such a "life insurance"?

  18. #18
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    no. because i believe we all have a time on earth, and when that time's up, its up. IF god allowed us this technology, I believe it would be going against God's plan, so in essence going against God. so when God wants me to die, ill die. besides, who in their right mind would want to stay on earth any longer than they have to when God is waiting to take you to him. I guess those who know they are sinners and whether they believe or not, have at least a hint of fear of punishment, or those who have absolutely no belief in an afterlife. for me, i cant wait to die. but im in no hurry either. when its time, its time.

  19. #19
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    I want to stick around as long as I can since I enjoy beeing alive and I know nothing about beeing dead. There is far to much to learn in this life to be able to do it all in a single lifetime. Give me 10 and I might be satisfied

  20. #20
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    No. A clone would not be a continuation of yourself as you can exist at the same time as the clone. A clone WOULD be a continuation of sorts the same way that children are a continuation of the parent. A clone is not YOU, however, as you cannot share the same consciousness and body with your clone.

  21. #21
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    im definatly enjoying myself. and im not trying to die. but im not going to be scared or disappointed when i die, even if i die before im old.

  22. #22
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    this is somethign i've pondered quite a bit actually, and i think that no, you cannot retain your consciousness in a duplicate of yourself. johan is suggest you pick up a copy of Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by douglas hofstadter. it's all about self awareness and specifically the implications of his viws on self-awareness as they pertain to AI.

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