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  1. #1
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    America excutes its 1000th human being since 1976 this morning.

    http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...204796,00.html

    Anyone care to discuss the death sentence?.

  2. #2
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    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.

  3. #3
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.

    I was looking forward to replies from both you and Johan.

  4. #4
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    i was thinking about that # last night when they had it on the news.. there is now way it could only be 1000.... in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's.. they were killing/hanging them a dozen at a time.. so it comes down to how do they qualify their count.?? statistical analysis sucks..
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  5. #5
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Spy, its the 1000th since the reintroduction of the death sentence (1976)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...204796,00.html

    Anyone care to discuss the death sentence?.

    Well, at least with this sentence, there are no repete offenders.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Spy, its the 1000th since the reintroduction of the death sentence (1976)
    ahhhhh.. that makes sense.. but it's still misleading... I would like to know all the deaths due to Government directed sentencing.. and then military also..
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  8. #8
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    Well, at least with this sentence, there are no repete offenders.

    And what happens in the event of a miscarriage of justice?.

  9. #9
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    some criminals should just be shot such as rapist/ child molesters im for the death penalty for certain crimes we could easily stop alot of crime if we just punished people like the canings in singapore i sure as hell wouldnt be vandalizing a thing if that was gonna happen how bout you

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    mm Carl panzram wasnt counted in there then haha.

    neway thats a very small number...if some1 is just gonna live off other people by robbing them, rapin em , and killing em and they do nothing postive for society....then why the hell should they be allowed to live

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    And what happens in the event of a miscarriage of justice?.

    The same thing that happens if a person is sentenced for life and rots in jail.

    I believe that the sentence shouldn't be used unless there is incontrovertible evidence and the crime warrants the punishment.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    And what happens in the event of a miscarriage of justice?.
    what happens when you as a soldier kill a civilian?? i'm sorry.. non combatant
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  13. #13
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    Casulaties of war or the system...shit happens...we get over it...the world goes on

  14. #14
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    My feelings about death sentance is very mixed.

    The risk of someone getting sentanced when inocent seems to high. Especialy now when DNA evidence gets more and more comon and nothing is easier then to plant DNA evidence. For me to agree on death sentance the evidence needed to convict someone to it would have to be so overwhelming that there is no doubt at all. I also feel the us jury system would not be fit to decide if a person is guilty or not.

    What I would like to se is a punishment kind of like the russian gulag. If you have comited a crime that is worthy of a death sentance you have tossed away your right to dignity. 40 years of harsh slave labor would be a far more effective punishment and the slim possibility of getting released if you are inocent would still be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    My feelings about death sentance is very mixed.

    The risk of someone getting sentanced when inocent seems to high. Especialy now when DNA evidence gets more and more comon and nothing is easier then to plant DNA evidence. For me to agree on death sentance the evidence needed to convict someone to it would have to be so overwhelming that there is no doubt at all. I also feel the us jury system would not be fit to decide if a person is guilty or not.

    What I would like to se is a punishment kind of like the russian gulag. If you have comited a crime that is worthy of a death sentance you have tossed away your right to dignity. 40 years of harsh slave labor would be a far more effective punishment and the slim possibility of getting released if you are inocent would still be there.
    very true

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.

    Now here is something we totally agree on.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.
    FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the facts:

    "All major categories of violent crime in the United States declined in 2004, bringing the rates of the most serious offenses, including murders, rapes, robberies and assaults, to a level 32 percent lower than those reported in 1995, the new figures show.

    The rate of property crimes -- such as burglary, larceny and auto theft -- declined 2.1 percent as well last year." CNN REPORT

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    what happens when you as a soldier kill a civilian?? i'm sorry.. non combatant

    I'm a soldier, 'mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do or die'.

    I don't have a problem killing someone who hurts a member of my family, or who damages my property. Thats simple, but I do have a problem with a flawed system like America's justice system (O.J. Simpson being an example) sitting in judgement over another person's right to live or die.

  19. #19
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    bouncer how would you like it if say a murdered gets cought and is found to be guilty and the family of the victim gets to decide the murderes punishment. After all they are the ones suffering so they are the ones most fit to give judgement to the criminal.

  20. #20
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    Death penalty. What's your view?

    Please lets respect everyones view (I like it, but everyone has a voice)
    Reasons I would apply death penalty:
    *Violet murders (not revenge killings or "heat of passion")
    *child killers (abused to death included)
    *repeat robbers of people in a work place (working people would feel alot safer getting rid of repeat offenders)
    *violent rapists (the ones that are "proud" of it, not normal charges because I've seen the "rape" word threw around alot)
    *nasty repeat aids riden prostitutes that spread disease
    *terriosist
    *cop killers

    Crimes I would have eliminated or reduced
    *self defense (no crime) and a law(actually the news does it cause they know if they print an officer's name the inside info would stop) like the cops have where their name is kept out of the paper.
    *drug de****g (boot camp-like program.) 20-life for de****g drugs?wtf

    p.s. why is "de****g" crossed out? computer thing? bad word?
    Last edited by goodcents; 12-02-2005 at 01:11 PM.

  21. #21
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    bouncer how would you like it if say a murdered gets cought and is found to be guilty and the family of the victim gets to decide the murderes punishment. After all they are the ones suffering so they are the ones most fit to give judgement to the criminal.
    Same thing, alot of innocent Irish men and women would have been executed in the UK had the families of victims had been allowed to make that judgement. When the 'Birmingham Six' (look them up) were found guilty the trial judge said that if the UK still have capital punishment he'd have had no problem applying it to them all. They were all released from prison after 16yrs, their sentences being found to be unsafe. And the same thing has happened alot in the USA and other counties with the death sentence too.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Same thing, alot of innocent Irish men and women would have been executed in the UK had the families of victims had been allowed to make that judgement. When the 'Birmingham Six' (look them up) were found guilty the trial judge said that if the UK still have capital punishment he'd have had no problem applying it to them all. They were all released from prison after 16yrs, their sentences being found to be unsafe. And the same thing has happened alot in the USA and other counties with the death sentence too.
    True. What would you like to se as the most harsh punishment possible?

    The current law system in sweden is a joke. The most famous serial killer in sweden isnt even in jail. He is in a mental institute since he was found insane. NO SHIT?!?! Im sure he will be found "cured" soon and released. I dont want death sentances but the sentances cant be to mellow either.

    I guess the death sentance was mostly created as a means of scaring people away from the most violent and disgusting crimes. But it just doesnt work that way. People that do comit those kinds of crimes can not be scared.

  23. #23
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    the absolutely greates thing I have against death sentance is that it can be abused. Just look at china and the executions of drug dealers. There is no way a drug dealer should be sentanced to death on the basis of de****g alone.

  24. #24
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    One of the reasons that I have been for the Death sentence is the huge problem that we are having here in the states with prison overcrowding.

    That and it seems as if the prisoners are offered every form of creature comfort imaginable, from televisions to congical visits from the opposite sex.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    One of the reasons that I have been for the Death sentence is the huge problem that we are having here in the states with prison overcrowding.

    That and it seems as if the prisoners are offered every form of creature comfort imaginable, from televisions to congical visits from the opposite sex.

    *If this turns the thread offtopic just delete my post and Il create a new thread on it*

    isnt the overcrowded prisons mostly a product of the failed war on drugs? Victimless crime offenders getting ridicilous punishments.

    The way I look at prison is that only the criminals that present a danger to society should be inprisoned. That is the swedish policy aswell.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    One of the reasons that I have been for the Death sentence is the huge problem that we are having here in the states with prison overcrowding.

    That and it seems as if the prisoners are offered every form of creature comfort imaginable, from televisions to congical visits from the opposite sex.
    i agree with you 100% overcrowding #1 problem. we insist on lowering sentences on the lower end. for example i just read where they're gonna lower the drug free school zones from 1000 to 200 feet because there are too many arrests. how insane. the drug crimes and first offense non violent crimes are almost tolerated now because the laws are unenforceable. clean out the murderers rapists and career criminals and we would have plenty of room for other offenders.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    I'm a soldier, 'mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do or die'.

    I don't have a problem killing someone who hurts a member of my family, or who damages my property. Thats simple, but I do have a problem with a flawed system like America's justice system (O.J. Simpson being an example) sitting in judgement over another person's right to live or die.
    HM... Under the UCMJ... following unlawful orders, even in combat, even from a superior officer is grounds for courtmarcial.. Even the UN, and the trials that are going on today show that one cannot hide behind the fact that they were just "Following orders" So, that don't fly.. we could always go to a more eastern like law... and cut peoples hands off for ste****g, or being accused of ste****g or we could stone a woman for showing too much of her arm in public.. no, i think i'll take my chances here..
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the facts:

    "All major categories of violent crime in the United States declined in 2004, bringing the rates of the most serious offenses, including murders, rapes, robberies and assaults, to a level 32 percent lower than those reported in 1995, the new figures show.

    The rate of property crimes -- such as burglary, larceny and auto theft -- declined 2.1 percent as well last year." CNN REPORT

    Dude , get a clue , those arn't the facts . It's a BS statistic , and like any stat can be twisted to any agenda . 04' compared to 95' , why not to 03'? Probably because is rose from 03' . 95' could have been a bad year , more records , less reports (rape and such) ect ect . My point , shit insn't getting any better here .

    I agree with Johan , slave labor . Death is to easy and life in prison is to grand . Put em to work , hard work .

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    The same thing that happens if a person is sentenced for life and rots in jail.

    I believe that the sentence shouldn't be used unless there is incontrovertible evidence and the crime warrants the punishment.
    Here is the key word, the death penalty needs to have a standard set for the quality of evidence used in it's application. Now whether that is requiring 2 eyewitnesses/video/DNA I can't say. But IMO the death penalty is very effective as the people we executed aren't out stirring up more shit, we just need to make sure that there is no chance whatsoever that an innocent person could ever be on death row.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    HM... Under the UCMJ... following unlawful orders, even in combat, even from a superior officer is grounds for courtmarcial.. Even the UN, and the trials that are going on today show that one cannot hide behind the fact that they were just "Following orders" So, that don't fly.. we could always go to a more eastern like law... and cut peoples hands off for ste****g, or being accused of ste****g or we could stone a woman for showing too much of her arm in public.. no, i think i'll take my chances here..

    You didn't ask about shooting children dead under an unlawful order, you simply asked about killing children.

    I know what an unlawful order is, and I won't act under it. But women, children and the truth are the first casualties of war. If I was engaged in a firefight and killed an innocent it wouldn't have been an unlawful act as such, unless my intentions were to kill them.

    ***I'll just add something here. A child soldier is in my opinion a soldier and so is a legitimate target***.

    I don't agree with Bigen and his idea of culling the prison population, so at what qouta should we start killing prisoners?.

    John you asked about appropriate punishment, well each crime has to be decided on on its own mirits. But I do believe life should mean like, not like most of Europe. Here in Ireland life can mean anything from 7 yrs to a max of about 14!. I believe once imprisoned you should lose all but the very basic human rights, ie, 4 meals a day, a bed, somewhere to take a dump and somewhere to wash. Thats about it, no creature comforts.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.
    I don't think so. You can think of the Scandinavian countries as an example. The crime level there is the lowest in Europe (if not in the world) even though they have banned the capital punishment long time ago.

  32. #32
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    Maybe the US should start introducing the penalties that Saudi Arabians face: If you steal-loose a hand, If you kill-loose your head.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.fO.shO
    Dude , get a clue , those arn't the facts . It's a BS statistic , and like any stat can be twisted to any agenda . 04' compared to 95' , why not to 03'? Probably because is rose from 03' . 95' could have been a bad year , more records , less reports (rape and such) ect ect . My point , shit insn't getting any better here .

    I agree with Johan , slave labor . Death is to easy and life in prison is to grand . Put em to work , hard work .
    Oh, ok. I guess I was mistaken with the statistics bureau. I'll "get a clue" and just follow what you say instead.

    By the way: your "point" stinks because you didn't read it correctly.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    I don't think so. You can think of the Scandinavian countries as an example. The crime level there is the lowest in Europe (if not in the world) even though they have banned the capital punishment long time ago.

    I would hope that is more of a cultural and educational thing not a product of our judical system.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    I know what an unlawful order is, and I won't act under it. But women, children and the truth are the first casualties of war. If I was engaged in a firefight and killed an innocent it wouldn't have been an unlawful act as such, unless my intentions were to kill them.

    ***I'll just add something here. A child soldier is in my opinion a soldier and so is a legitimate target***.
    agreed..
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  36. #36
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    America should deal with its screwed up social system,such as poverty,racism,drug addiction,etc...and start taking care of its citizens.Then they wouldnt have such a high crime rate with overpopulated jails and a screwed up judicial system.100% undeniable proof of a vicious murder or rape deserves death,no place for people like that on this planet.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    I would hope that is more of a cultural and educational thing not a product of our judical system.
    Yes, I agree with you.

  38. #38
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    No way...completely disagree with it...

    Eventhough these people did wrong in there lives..it isnt up to other human beings to decide wether they should live or not..

    Its all up to the man upstairs..

    Put them in Jail and throw away the key....but death is just unacceptable imo

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Only 1000? No wonder crimes keep increasing in the US. Harsher penalties will bring less crime.
    Sad is the day I agree with Causasian. SO today is very sad indeed

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