12-14-2005, 05:04 AM #1
Iranian leader is losing his mind
Iranian President Ahmadinejad says Holocaust 'myth' was created by Europeans
By News Agencies
TEHRAN - Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that the Holocaust was a myth, reiterating a view that has caused international uproar and drawn a rebuke from the United Nations Security Council.
The Iranian president said the Europeans have used the "myth" of the Holocaust to create a Jewish state in the heart of the Islamic world. Wednesday was the first occasion when he said in public that the Holocaust was a myth.
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God Himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the southeastern city of Zahedan.
His speech was broadcast live on state television.
Touring southeast Iran, Ahmadinejad said that if Europeans insist the Holocaust did happen, then it was they who were responsible and they should pay the price.
"If you committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?" Ahmadinejad asked rhetorically.
"This is our proposal: If you committed the crime, then give a part of your own land in Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to them (Jews) so that the Jews can establish their country," he said, developing a theme he raised in Saudi Arabia last week.
"If your civilisation consists of unjust acts, oppression and poverty for the majority of the globe to provide your own people welfare, then we shout at the top of our voices that we hate your frail civilization," he said, to rapturous cries of "God is Greatest" from the crowd.
Israel, Germany slam Ahmadinejad's remarks
Israel condemned Ahmadinejad's remarks Wednesday. Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said: "The repeated outrageous remarks of the Iranian president show clearly the mind-set of the ruling clique in Tehran and indicate clearly the extremist policy goals of the regime.
"The combination of fanatical ideology, a warped sense of reality and nuclear weapons is a combination that no one in the international community can accept," Regev added, referring to allegations that Iran is developing nuclear bombs.
Germany's foreign minister described as "shocking and unacceptable" Wednesday the Iranian president's description of the Holocaust as a "myth," warning that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments weighed on relations and on talks over Iran's nuclear program.
Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said his government had summoned the charge d'affaires at the Iranian Embassy and made "unmistakeably clear" its displeasure.
"I cannot hide the fact that this weighs on bilateral relations and on the chances for the negotiation process, the so-called nuclear dossier," he told parliament's foreign affairs committee.
Last week, Ahmadinejad also expressed doubt that the Holocaust took place, and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.
His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave in Mecca, followed his October call for Israel to be "wiped off the map," which sparked widespread international condemnation.
"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces, and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that, they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
12-14-2005, 05:14 AM #2
I was impressed with this portion of an article that I read this morning.
The president's views sharply conflict with those of his predecessor Mohammad Khatami, a moderate who used to call for dialogue among civilizations and promoted a low-key understanding with the United States that stopped short of diplomatic relations.
Inside Iran, Ahmadinejad's remarks have been criticized by some of his conservative allies who fear he is hurting the country's image. Moderate Iranians have called on the ruling Islamic establishment to rein in the president.
12-14-2005, 06:25 AM #3
I see him as a great leader, we need leaders like him in the Arab world, this great man reflect what inside my mind, this man represent courage,modesty,dignity,honour and a dedication for the cause, our hearts and our minds are with you Ahmadinajad keep on the good work!
12-14-2005, 06:50 AM #4
The dude is crazy. Seriously insane.
That said, I kinda do agree with him. The Jews and other victims of the WWII and the Holocaust should have been given land in Germany, Austria and the other places where they were living before the pogrom started. The freed slaves in America should have been given land as was promised to them as well.
The only problem is these things happened too long ago so no one is going to (and neither should they) make amends for any of it. Get over it and find a resolution to the problem that doesn't include violence and hate.
12-14-2005, 07:39 AM #5Originally Posted by scriptfactory
"In the 1880s outbreak, thousands of Jewish homes were destroyed, many families reduced to extremes of poverty; women sexually assaulted, and large numbers of men, women, and children killed or injured in 166 Russian towns. The series of pogroms continued for more than three years with at least tacit inactivity and in some cases, support by the authorities.
An even bloodier wave of pogroms broke out in 1903-1906, leaving an estimated 2,000 Jews dead, and many more wounded."
Second, by the time WWII ended there were 6 million Jews dead (1 million children). There were over 600,000 Jews already living in pre-State Israel. So, after the slaughter of 6 million Jews, you expect the world to uproot 600,000 Jews (much of the land was purchased) to move back to Germany? Have you lost your mind?
12-14-2005, 07:47 AM #6Originally Posted by AIZFour Million Victims?
At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. This figure, which was invented by the Soviets, was uncritically accepted for many years. It often appeared in major American newspapers and magazines, for example.
Today no reputable historian, not even those who generally accept the extermination story, believes this figure. Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer said in 1989 that it is time to finally acknowledge the familiar four million figure is a deliberate myth. In July 1990 the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Center, suddenly announced that altogether perhaps one million people (both Jews and non-Jews) died there. Neither institution would say how many of these people were killed, nor were any estimates given of the numbers of those supposedly gassed.  One prominent Holocaust historian, Gerald Reitlinger, has estimated that perhaps 700,000 or so Jews perished at Auschwitz. More recently, Holocaust historian Jean-Claude Pressac has estimated that about 800,000 persons -- of whom 630,000 were Jewish -- perished at Auschwitz.  While even such lower figures are incorrect, they show how the Auschwitz story has changed drastically over the years.
12-14-2005, 07:52 AM #7Originally Posted by AIZ
Second, I was saying they should have been given land. It doesn't mean they had to accept it! I wouldn't want land in Germany if I had survived through all that crap. Even still, they were entitled to land in the places they were uprooted from.
Now, from what I understand Palestinia was under British control following WWI. There were already Jews living in Palestinia but were oppressed or something. After WWII Britain let the U.N. decide what should happen with Isreal and they divided the country, etc, etc. I really don't care about all of that stuff, and to tell you the truth it seems pretty fair.
The point I am trying to make is that just because someone was entitled to something in the past it doesn't matter! Who cares. I'm actually agreeing with you if you read what I wrote. I didn't say that the Jews living in Isreal had to be uprooted.
12-14-2005, 08:01 AM #8
BTW, Militia Guy. Everyone has read Weber's views on Holocaust revisionism...
It's on virtually every Nazi and white supremacy website on the internet. It's funny that Islam uses the same "evidence" as Nazi's. If I were you I would find new reference material.
12-14-2005, 08:11 AM #9Originally Posted by scriptfactory
Thank you for clearing up the Weber view. Much appreciated.
Weber can me
12-14-2005, 08:16 AM #10Originally Posted by scriptfactory
Journalist Muhammad Al-Qadussi: The lie about the gas chambers has been spread by the Jews. They claim that six million Jews were burnt to ashes in the crematoria which, so they claim, Hitler possessed. In fact, this lie has been refuted in several ways. First of all, you cannot burn six million people to ashes, with available means, in less than 180 years. Thus, in the six years or so of World War II, it is not possible that six million Jews could have been burnt.
In addition, Fred Leuchter, an engineer specializing in gas chambers, proved technically and scientifically that the camps where the burning supposedly took place, such as Auschwitz and others, served as garbage dumps, and nothing else. As Leuchter said, these places could not have been used to burn corpses, nor can they be used for this purpose today or in the future. The most basic evidence on which he relied is that these camps were connected to the sewage system of the city. So if poisonous Zyklon-B gas was used in the burning of the corpses, this gas would have leaked from the sewers to all the city's houses, and would have poisoned and burned everybody. This, of course, did not happen, and it proves that no corpses were burnt.
12-14-2005, 08:36 AM #11Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
In fact, you should realize that denial of the holocaust is illegal in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and many other countries! There were many cases presented in courts and "evidence" was shown that was proven false over and over again.
Ever hear of Heinrich Himmler? Do some research, then come back to us if you still believe in Holocaust revisionism.
12-14-2005, 08:58 AM #12
Simply propaganda designed to divert attention from the way things are going in Iran.
12-14-2005, 08:59 AM #13Originally Posted by scriptfactory
anyway you want to believe that the holocaust happened not because you are jewish, liberal,zionists or because you have facts but for other racial reasons and you know these reasons.
12-14-2005, 09:48 AM #14Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
What racial reasons would I have for believing that the Holocaust happened? I believe the Holocaust happened because it did. Facts are statements of verified information about something, and I assure you that you have NO facts. You do like to spread around propoganda, though. So do Nazis.
12-14-2005, 10:01 AM #15
Those who deny the Holocaust (and actually believe what they are saying), represent ignorance in its greatest form. Ignorance...period.
To all those who openly deny the Holocaust, my surviving family members of the camps and ghettos send you a big, warm, Jewish
12-14-2005, 10:10 AM #16Originally Posted by AIZ
12-14-2005, 10:12 AM #17Originally Posted by scriptfactory
12-14-2005, 10:29 AM #18
I love these icons!!! They're so befitting for some members...
12-14-2005, 10:46 AM #19
that Ahmadinejad guy is digging his own grave. Is he intentionaly trying to alianate the entire world??
12-14-2005, 10:51 AM #20Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
This thread is about the Holocaust we are going off topic. Please can we keep this on topic.
Thanks, big guy.
12-14-2005, 10:55 AM #21
His message was taken out of context.
He is responding to Israel's recent terrorist threats against the nation of Iran. In Time Magazine it said that Sharon was ready to attack Iran's power facilities through terroristic means. Alot of the power structure is located in civilian areas just like any other nations.
He is responding to Israels threats of terrorism against Iran.
This guy is unbelievable, I wish all leaders in the Muslim world were like him.
12-14-2005, 11:01 AM #22Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
12-14-2005, 11:02 AM #23Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
A Middle Eastern Comedy
Israel: Iran has nuclear power facilities and we are gonna use terrorist style attacks on them.
Iran: What? You bastards! The Holocaust never happened... go back to Europe!
12-14-2005, 11:07 AM #24Originally Posted by scriptfactory
But he is basically telling Israel to bring it, and he is ready for any conflict with Israel. He is not cowering, and showing he is not scared to take on their state sponsored terrorism.
12-14-2005, 11:09 AM #25
Look at what happened to Syria, they listened to Israeli threats, and they gave in, and talked peace with Israel. What was the result, more hate against Syria, more sanctions, and it made Syria look weak.
Now look at Iran, they stand strong, and look strong. The only way to deal with the Israelies is to be strong, stern, and aggressive, that is the only language they understand. If you are nice to them, they will play you like their favorite fiddle.
12-14-2005, 11:15 AM #26Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
I understand what you are saying about his feelings toward Israel. There is no reason to attack something that was a great Jewish, not to mention human, tragedy. The things that happened during WWII were deplorable and denying that deaths occurred during that time (even if it wasn't 6 million people) is pretty sad. Very sad, actually.
I feel as if these statements are provocative in nature. Like he is TRYING to make Israel attack. If so, that is a pretty crappy military decision from a moral standpoint, especially if it comes at the expense of civilians.
12-14-2005, 11:19 AM #27Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Respond to threats of destroying their nuclear weapon making technology, by denying the Holocaust???
12-14-2005, 11:20 AM #28Originally Posted by scriptfactory
"If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream" - Ahmadnejad
12-14-2005, 11:23 AM #29Originally Posted by Bigen12
Iran has already said it will take immense measures if it is attacked, now its using other provocation methods.
12-14-2005, 11:26 AM #30Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Maybe the next thing he'll do will be telling everyone that Jewish people have big noses, or are cheap...
He's a real tough guy.....
12-14-2005, 11:28 AM #31
Plus Iran knows the US is in no condition to take on Iran in a military conflict, and Iran has immense power in Iraq. Iran is in a good situation and it is taking advantage of it fully.
12-14-2005, 12:41 PM #32
Iran's, highest authority Ayatollah Khamanei released a fatwa that making, using and even keeping of nuclear weapons is forbidden in Islam. People ignore this.
12-14-2005, 12:49 PM #33
If there will ever be a conflict between Israel and Iran, I can say is...Good luck Ahmadinijad...nice knowin' ya! (Last 2 paragraphs are my favorite )
"The IDF is considered to be one of the most high-tech armies in the world, possessing top-of-the-line weapons and computer systems.
Israel's military technology is most famous for its guns, armored fighting vehicles (tanks, tank-converted APCs, armoured bulldozers etc) and rocketry (missiles and rockets).
Currently Israel is the only country in the world with an anti-ballistic missile defense system ("Hetz", or Arrow) and working with the USA on development of a tactical high energy laser system against medium range rockets (called Nautilus THEL).
Israel has the independent capability of launching reconnaissance satellites into orbit (a capability which only Russia, USA, UK, France, China, Japan and India hold). Both the satellites (Ofeq) and the launchers (Shavit) were developed by the Israeli security industries.
The current size and composition of Israel's nuclear stockpile is uncertain, and is the subject of various estimates and reports. FAS estimates that Israel probably has 100-200 nuclear warheads, which can be delivered by airplanes (A4 Skyhawk or converted F-4 Phantom II), or ballistic missiles (Lance, Jericho, or Jericho II missiles). The Jericho II is reported to have a range between 1,500 and 4,000 km, meaning that it can target sites as far away as central Russia, Iran and Libya.
Also, It has also been speculated that the Israeli Navy's three Dolphin class submarines may be capable of carrying nuclear-armed specially-modified Popeye Turbo cruise missiles. These missiles are purported to have a 1,500 km range and are supposedly fired out of what are suspected to be unusually-sized additional torpedo tubes that were allegedly installed on the Dolphin submarine and are otherwise larger than what is required to accommodate any currently known western torpedo design in existence."
But hey, HUSH HUSH, we don't have nukes
12-14-2005, 12:56 PM #34
Suicide is also forbidden in Islam.
12-14-2005, 01:55 PM #35
yesterday something really interesting happened yet nobody gave it an attention,after the "isreali" threat from natanyaho to make a military step Iran yesterday waved with the Iraqi card when sayid Ali el Kamninai said that the resistance is the only way to liberate the Iraqi lands and the USA should withdraw from Iraq, this is like saying to the american :"this card is here and its powerfull and you should be carefull not to do something stupid and you have to convince your little buddy "israel" to behave"
12-14-2005, 02:11 PM #36Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
12-14-2005, 02:33 PM #37Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
this would be interesting, Arab countries would back Iran against Israel, still the money would flow to Israel to kick their ass
12-14-2005, 05:26 PM #38Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
12-14-2005, 05:55 PM #39Originally Posted by Alex2
12-14-2005, 07:16 PM #40Originally Posted by Alex2
Shias will back Iran, Arab Shias in Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. And anyone that is sucessful against Israel will have all Muslims support. If Iran is succesful against Israel, the Arab people will love Iran, dont know about the leadership.
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