12-20-2005, 04:15 PM #1
Federal Judge rules against intelligent design in the class room.
In Dover PA you won't find any warning on text books about evolution, and now won't have some crazy nut job teacher telling your kids "god did it". Yes a federal Judge ruled today that intelligent design is not science and has no place in science class. It's refreshing to see that our government isn't totally corrupted by christians and logic and reason still prevail. Here is an article from september from msnbc describing the case before it went to court: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9444600/
I'm curious to know how you all feel about this ruling.
12-20-2005, 04:38 PM #2
I seriously think they should teach both, I received both, but our teachers made sure we knew their logical and flaws.
in catholicism class, the teacher said "god created the word in seven days, UNDER THE BIBLE" the bible said this...
but when it came to science, we also said "darwin theory of evolution" presses that.... bla bla bla
12-20-2005, 05:01 PM #3
I dont think that intelligent design has to mean god. This is something we touched on in my Political Science class this semester. I mean personally, I dont believe in religion. However, I do not think intelligent design has to point towards a big bearded man sitting in a chair in heaven with a crown on. I believe fully in science, however wouldn't logic and reason tell you that things as complex as the orbits of the moon,earth,and other planets in the solar system, the complexity of the human body and how it works, wouldn't just happen by accident, because there was a big boom. That doesn't seem logical to me. Ya know in a movie I recently saw there was actually a pretty interesting quote that got my attention "God is a big kid with a huge ant farm." Ya know, we engulf ourselves in living our lives, however I think we are really naive to how small and insignifcant we are to the universe. *end rant
12-20-2005, 06:25 PM #4
Intelligent design clearly implies god (or super intelligent aliens). ID is just the people who lost the creationsim argument back in the late 80's still trying to have some influence over our future generations. The discovery institute namely are the ones who are backing this argument because science threatens their christian view of reality. Biblical reality is slowly fading into scientific reality; the sooner we let go of religion, the better off humanity will be.
12-20-2005, 06:27 PM #5Originally Posted by BeerBaron
12-21-2005, 04:12 AM #6Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
Learn both and learn to make your own decision
12-21-2005, 05:47 AM #7Originally Posted by AIZ
agreed here aswell .................. let the kiddies choose what they want to beleive , isnt this all about choice ?
12-21-2005, 08:44 AM #8
I have no problem with ID in RELIGION classes. But if they ever put it into science classes I would homeschool my future kids. Science is for science, not unbased religious speculations. It would permanently ruin science classes credability!!!!!
Science is not about choise!! Its about what is accepted, tested and true. there are lots of theories that are true that people dont like. Should we teach what people like but what is false alongside that wich is correct?
Originally Posted by thegodfather
We have pretty good theories for all those things without needing a god. When it comes to the big bang, the universe ect you can pretty much throw out everything that makes sense since not even our concept of simultaneity is true no matter how much sense it makes....
12-21-2005, 09:40 AM #9
Intelligent design is a theory. It should be taught alongside all the other theories of the creation of the universe. Just because it has it's root in theology doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught. I also feel that other major "creation myths" should be taught as well.
None of these are theorems which means none should be lauded as the truth. The sources (i.e. the Bible, scientific community, etc.) of these theories should be taught as well as an explanation as to why certain groups are either for or against them.
12-21-2005, 11:04 AM #10Originally Posted by scriptfactory
12-21-2005, 12:26 PM #11Originally Posted by johan
You are right about one thing. Science is about what is accepted as the truth, proof being optional.
12-21-2005, 08:33 PM #12Originally Posted by scriptfactory
Last edited by BeerBaron; 12-21-2005 at 08:39 PM.
12-22-2005, 03:48 AM #13Originally Posted by scriptfactory
A theory is suposed to make predictions so it can be falsified. ID doesnt do this!!
A theory is suposed to explain something in a more satisfying way then the previous hypothesis. ID doesnt do this in any stretch of the imagination!!
The scientific world has no need for ID, it needs it no more then gravitational theory needs intelligent pulling theories or EM field theory needs tiny magnetic demons that pulls in invisible strings.
ID is just the bastard child of creationism with a twist to make the comon man think its scientific. Unfortunaly lots of people have fallen for that over there in the states. We swedes are like wtf about the whole debate cause it doesnt exist over here.
I have no beef with creation myths ect beeing taught in religious classes. Then if the religious people want to belive that over what the scientific community think is right its up to them. But dont make a joke out of science by placing them in science class. I dont think any science teacher could even teach that with good concious. If I was a teacher and forced to teach that I would tell the kids upfront that "everything I say now is totaly, scientificly unaccepted bullshit so close your ears and eyes"
You arent seriously considering ID to be on level with big bang theory are you?
No scientific theory can ever be proven right. So no scientific hypothesis can ever get the same "truth" to it as a mathematical theorem.
Originally Posted by scriptfactory
Science is about making educated guesses based on observations and with those guesses try and predict things. Its not like Gauss just woke up one night and said "damn the divergense of the electric deplacement field must equal the free electric charge density and it is like that because I guess so".
If the prediction isnt right the guess gets thrown out of the window. Science ruthlessly weeds out any subpar guesses. If it cant be falsified it isnt scientific, and if it can be falsified people will do everything they can to try and show that its false. When the guess/idea has been put under that destructive flame for years and years without ever showing any sign of breaking down. Its only then that it becomes a theory! A theory IS how nature works under the parameters the theory works in.
So ID doesnt qualify to be a scientific theory in any way, shape or form. It cant be tested, it doesnt predict anything and it explains nature in a worse way then the real theories like evolution for biological life and bigbang for creation of the universe.
Sorry of I sound a bit like a pric, but just found out I was 1 lousy point from the highest score on a exam so I need to vent
Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 12-22-2005 at 04:07 AM.
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