01-01-2006, 09:27 AM #1
HOW do we Know Positive & Negative Sense ???
me and Beerbaron have been talking about this topic , and i think i would like to start a thread , where i can use some input from the rest of u , to come down to an understanding , of the simple nature of life , which has only 2 outcomes , Positive and Negative , and how do we understand on a universal stance , why and how we know something is positive or negative , these 2 words or senses , why do we share them as common sense !!
01-01-2006, 10:20 AM #2
To give an answer to that question would involve separating them between "words" and "senses". They are different. We are taught, whether by parents, in school, TV, etc, what these words mean. It's a learned behavior. "Senses" on the other hand don't necessarliy fall under the "learned behavior" category. That is, while we do learn from our own societies what is negative and positive, we don't always feel as we are taught. If, for example, we are taught that killing an enemy during wartime is right (and/or positive) the soldier may not feel that way. Something in him/her is telling them that this is negative...its a sense that is not necessarily "learned". Personally, I believe that "senses" come down to each individual. I live in a region where turmoil and belligerency are normal. However, I feel these things are negative. I have many friends who would be considered "right-wing" and I hear their opinions on many issues. While they have a point to what they are saying, I, in no way, share these positive feelings they have...I feel them as negative. Follow?
01-01-2006, 01:38 PM #3Originally Posted by AIZ
01-01-2006, 01:41 PM #4Originally Posted by AIZ
someone smiles at u and shakes your hand (u feel positive)
you prick your finger with a needle (u feel negative)
the basic sense of positive and negative , where does it come from ?
thats what i am drawing this thread towards basically !
01-01-2006, 03:19 PM #5
I think it comes from what you gain from or not. A smile means a friendly attitude and that can work to your advantage. Pricking your finger is a injury that has no positive effect on you whatsoever.
01-01-2006, 06:55 PM #6
A smile and a hand shake have no inherent value. We come to know what smiles and hand shakes are. A child could just as easily think when a dog is showing his teeth the dog is smiling offering a friendly gesture in the same way humans do. Now the finger prick is pain, which is naturally perceived as a possible threat to survival and this will naturally trigger the flight or fight response. This response occurs in the autonomic (involuntary) division of the peripheral nervous system called the sympathetic nervous system which basicly prepares the body to respond to stressful situations. This causes physiological changes in the body that are beyond an individuals control. This is why people typically pull away from a finger prick and find it unpleasant.
01-01-2006, 09:38 PM #7Originally Posted by BeerBaron
where do we get this from ????
the TYPICAL behaviour of people , humans how and why can we relate to soo much common sense of knowing from +ve to -ve understanding ?
01-01-2006, 11:14 PM #8Originally Posted by zOaib
01-03-2006, 10:01 AM #9Originally Posted by BeerBaron
01-03-2006, 12:59 PM #10Originally Posted by zOaib
01-03-2006, 03:19 PM #11Originally Posted by zOaib
I'm not sure I follow your comparison of the dog lifting his leg to pee to people knowing right from wrong, you are comparing instinct to learned behavior. Instincts are inborn paterns of behavior that are biologically determined rather than learned, example: a spider spinning a web, or in humans as mentioned before, the fight or flight response. All animals are born with some preprogramed bahavior essential for their survival called instinct. When examining instinct, the question is not where did this come from, but rather how did this come to be. Instincts are interesting to study, but there is no evidence in any research that there are behavioral instincts in terms of what is morally right and wrong in any animal. All of your examples so far such as not wanting to see your mother nude, or helping an old lady cross the street are example of learned behavior, not instinct. Your pin prick scenario is an example of instinct.
01-03-2006, 08:30 PM #12
This might be the answer -
The evolutionary mechanism of natural selection makes an implicit distinction between "good" or "fit" situations (those which survive in the long term), and "bad" or "unfit" ones (those which are eliminated sooner or later). Therefore, we might equate good or higher values with anything that contributes to survival and the continuation of the process of evolution, and evil with anything that destroys, kills or thwarts the development of fit systems.
01-03-2006, 09:09 PM #13Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
01-03-2006, 10:03 PM #14Originally Posted by zOaib
we consider something as negative if it seems not to be in our best interest.
Suppose a bomb blows up your house.
From your perspective, the damage means extra hassle and expense, maybe even loss of a loved one. Not in your best interest. So, you consider it as negative.
From a terrorist's perspective, the damage means success in punishing you or your group and success in providing another reason for you to go away, and he will consider the situation as positive. Yes, in his best interest.
So, there's no absolute positive or negative in this business . . . like, if a tapeworm lodges itself in your body and you get sick, you'll see that as negative. But for the tapeworm, it means food, nourishment, and life. A positive for the tapeworm. But if you take medicine to get rid of the parasite, you will consider the medicine a positive, but for the tapeworm, it will be a negative.
A simple way to look at things . . .
01-04-2006, 08:23 AM #15Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
01-05-2006, 03:21 AM #16Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
01-05-2006, 03:30 AM #17Originally Posted by Tock
01-05-2006, 01:08 PM #18Originally Posted by max2extreme
01-05-2006, 02:31 PM #19Originally Posted by max2extreme
01-05-2006, 02:46 PM #20
Maybe positive is something that will benefit the person in the long run or short term, and negative is something that will hurt the person in the long run or short term. That is a very simple answer, but that could be another answer to the question. I dont think its one answer, it has different dimensions.
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