01-06-2006, 04:29 PM #1Junior Member
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what did the president of iran rally say?
alot of people are posting news stories of the president of iran allegedly saying certain things about the holocaust and jews.
im not pointing fingers but am i the only one that noticed that all the news stories are just basically copies of one another there are about 3or 4 different stories written by AP that have been multiplyed a thousand times by different news agencies.
now i dont have a problem with that but who actaully did the translation from persian/farsi to english this is what i would like to know becuase all the qutoes no matter what news paper you look at are 100% percent identicle basically meaning cut-and-paste jobs.
ive been talking to people from iran and they are saying something else like hes been miss translated on perpose in the west to make a news story.
does any one have any concrete evidence of what he actaully said in farsi like a video clip on the net?
01-06-2006, 04:43 PM #2
All quotes are directly translated from Arabic/farsi into English. That is the job of the Middle East Media Research Institute. They are the premier institute for translating directly from the root sources.
First, here are your sources. They are numbered within the article from 15-18.
AFTER THE LISTING OF THE SOURCES, you will find the article.
There is also a clip in the middle of the article that you can watch. It's in bold.
 See MEMRI Special Dispatch No. 1013, "Iranian President at Tehran Conference: 'Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Be Purged From the Center of the Islamic World - and This is Attainable,'" October 28, 2005,http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...an&ID=SP101305.
 This quote from ISNA (Iranian Students News Agency) appeared in the reformist daily Sharq on December 10, 2005. A similar, if not identical, report was published by the ultraconservative daily Kayhan on the same date: "Did the murder of the Jews in WWII constitute a proper reason for there to be support for the regime that is occupying Jerusalem? For hundreds of films to be produced on this matter? And for there to be, every day, an affront to the feelings of the peoples in the matter of these Jews? And for there to be support for the foundation of a regime that occupies the Palestinian lands? In our opinion, if you [Europeans] took such a measure, come and give the Zionists part of your districts in Europe and Germany, or Austria, so that there they will establish their government. Why was this injustice against the Jews carried out in Europe but the Palestinian people must be the one to pay the price for it? Give the Zionists some of the lands of Europe and we will support this decision of yours, and will not voice any slogan against that regime..."
At a press conference, President Ahmadinejad presented "a report about the presence of the religious minorities" in the Iranian Majlis, saying: "The Iranian people is united, and is considered a single family. Everyone is a limb of a single body. The various minorities as well are part of this body, and the law is identical for all. The number of the Christians does not exceed 250,000, and they have two representatives in the Majlis. The Zoroastrians and the Jews - whose numbers in comparison with the Christians are much smaller - each have one representative in the Majlis..." Kayhan (Iran), December 12, 2005.
 IRNA, December 14, 2005, Kayhan, December 15, 2005. The transcript of the speech can be found at http://raha.gooya.name/politics/archives/040988.php.
 ISNA, January 1, 2006. http://www.isna.ir/Main/NewsView.aspx?ID=News-642660.
Holocaust Denial and Attitude Towards Jews
1. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
After stating, in October 2005, that "very soon, the stain of this disgrace [i.e. Israel] will be purged from the center of the Islamic world," Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad went on to make a series of orchestrated remarks in which he repeatedly stressed that the Holocaust was a "myth," and proposed that Europe take the Jews back or else settle them elsewhere in the world. 
The Iranian reaction to the ensuing condemnation by the international community of Ahmadinejad's statements included the insistence by official Iranian leaders and spokesmen that Ahmadinejad's statements regarding the "myth of the Holocaust" were correct and the recruiting of local press and media to support Holocaust denial and the transfer of the State of Israel to Europe or, for that matter, anywhere else. Iran has been a mouthpiece for known Holocaust deniers throughout the world, hosting them in the country and systematically publishing their statements in the Iranian media.
It is also claimed by senior Iranian officials that Ahmadinejad is in effect saying nothing new with regard to the Holocaust, the Jews, and Israel, and that he has been expressing the official Iranian view for years. At the same time, in an attempt to divert the discussion from Iranian leaders' Holocaust denial, Iranian spokesmen have espoused the argument that Ahmadinejad has actually launched a "legitimate scholarly debate" about the question of whether the Holocaust actually took place.
The following are excerpts of remarks made by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a press conference at the conclusion of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) meeting that took place in Mecca, Saudi Arabia in early December: "...The question is, where did those who rule today in Palestine, as an occupation regime, come from? Where were they born? Where did their parents live? They have no roots in Palestine, but they took the fate of Palestine into their hands and turned its natives into refugees...
"Some European countries are insisting on saying that Hitler burned millions of oppressed Jews in crematoria. They insist so much on this issue that if someone proves the opposite, they convict him and throw him into prison. Although we do not accept this claim [about the annihilation of European Jewry], let's assume that it is true, and we ask the Europeans: Does the killing of oppressed Jews by Hitler [justify] their support for the regime that is occupying Jerusalem?... Please, give a part of Europe, and we too will support this...
"Jews [i.e. anti-Zionist Jewish groups such as Neturei Karta] throughout the world have been supporting Palestine for the past 70 years. On the geographic map of the region, there is no country called 'The Zionist Regime'...
"My question is this: Aren't the countries of Europe insisting that during World War II there was killing of Jews? They say that Hitler annihilated and burned some Jews in crematoria, and turned the Jews into refugees. And because the Jews were oppressed in World War  then they [the European countries] must support a regime that occupies Jerusalem. We do not accept this argument [about the annihilation of European Jewry], but European countries believe in this so much, and insist on it, to the point that they take the harshest of legal measures against any researcher who contradicts this claim and presents historical evidence. They imprison him and condemn him.
"If you [Europeans] think that you committed an injustice against the Jews, why must the Muslims and the Palestinians pay the price for it? All right, you oppressed [the Jews]. So put some of Europe at the disposal of this Zionist regime, and we will support any government that you establish there. Support it as much as your heart desires, [even if it includes] monetary and military aid. [But] how can you give some of the Islamic world and the lands of the Palestinians [to the Zionists]?
"You claim that Hitler committed crimes. Why must the Palestinian children and women pay the price for this crime? Europe is a flowering continent; Germany is the country that claims it killed the Jews, and recently, in Austria, a scientist who claimed that the Holocaust was a lie was arrested and tried. Germany and Austria should place a district, or two, or three, as much as they want, at the disposal of the Zionist regime, and will establish there a state that all Europe will support. Thus the problem will be solved from the roots. Why are they insisting on imposing themselves upon the rest of the powers, and putting here [in the Middle East] a growth that is always in conflict and tension [with the Islamic world]? This is the proposal..." 
Addressing a crowd of thousands on December 14, 2005, during a tour of Sistan-Beluchistan Province, Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust a "myth." He said: "There were those who created a myth about the Holocaust and insisted on it, even more than on the belief in the religion and the prophets. When a man expresses his lack of belief in God, the religion, and the prophets, they do not oppose him - but they will rise up against anyone who rejects the [claim regarding the truth] of the Holocaust... Those who support freedom of expression, democracy, and human rights are exploiting the propagandist media [in order to protest] against my clear and documented claims and to criticize me and say that the Iranian president is not capable of living in the civilized world... If your civilization is made up of aggression, of transferring the oppressed nations [from their territory], of repressing the voices of the seekers of justice, and of spreading injustice and poverty among most of the people on Earth, then we say this loud and clear: We scorn your hollow civilization." 
The following are additional excerpts from the same speech, which was broadcast by Iran's Channel 1 on December 14, 2005. (To view the clip, visit http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=963 .)
"If you [Europeans] are correct in saying that you killed six million Jews in World War II... If you are correct in saying that you burnt six million Jews in crematoria - You must be right since you insist on making this claim, and since you arrest, convict, and imprison anyone who dissents... You condemn even your scholars who object to this - So we ask you: If you indeed committed this great crime, why should the oppressed people of Palestine be punished for it? If you committed a crime, you yourselves should pay for it.
"Our offer was and remains as follows: If you committed a crime, it is only appropriate that you place a piece of your land at their disposal - in Europe, America, Canada, or Alaska - so they can establish their own state. Rest assured that if you do so, the Iranian people will voice no objection."
In response to journalists' questions on human rights and the Holocaust, President Ahmadinejad said: "I have raised three points before world public opinion:
"One, there should be a distinction between Zionism and Judaism. In the Islamic countries, such as Iran, Palestine, and so on, the Jews have always enjoyed a life of security and tranquility, and religious freedom. They have enjoyed [this] and will continue to enjoy [it]. But Zionism itself is a Western ideology and a colonialist idea, with secular ideas and fascist methods, which was founded by the English. So far, with the help and direct guidance of America and part of Europe, [Zionism] is slaughtering the Muslims.
"Two, the historic foundation that they built in order to legitimize Zionism is the issue of the slaughter of the Jews by the German army. With regard to the number of these victims, there are in Europe itself two views - the first is the official one and the second is the unofficial one. But this matter has never been presented for a free scientific debate, and has become a red line and a myth that cannot be discussed. We of course maintain that human life from any ethnic, racial, or religious group must be respected, and that no one has the right to carry out ethnic, racial, or religious cleansing, and we condemn this.
"Three, however, if we assume that in this historical narrative, there is no exaggeration, and Jews were indeed killed in these numbers, why take vengeance upon the Muslims? Why doesn't Europe - which itself carried out this crime - pay the price? An important question that the Western countries and media must answer clearly is: What crime did they [i.e. the Westerners] commit at that time that the Zionists are not committing today? In essence, Zionism is a new Fascism... When I saw the [European] irritability that emerged in reaction to the ordinary presentation of a question, I asked myself what sensitive nerve this question had touched.
"It should be noted that antisemitism was an ancient tradition in Europe itself, and that in the Islamic world the Jews always lived comfortably. A question that penetrated into my brain and that I now raise is: Don't you think that one of the important goals [of the Europeans in] creating the artificial regime 'which occupies Jerusalem' and causes the Jews of Europe to emigrate there is the continuation of this same antisemitism? That is, the [Europeans'] aim was to expel the Jews from Europe, in a kind of ethnic and religious cleansing. But the best way to eradicate the Jews from all Europe was to build a Jewish camp in an Islamic region so that they would kill two birds with one stone. That is, that they would expel the Jews from Europe and also create, in the heart of the Islamic world, a [European] enclave with a Zionist and anti-Islamic essence, with a show of misery in the name of the Jews? Don't you think that this is an important question? Ask anyone who has something to say in this matter to answer it." 
01-06-2006, 04:43 PM #3Originally Posted by isolatex
You can check Memri
01-06-2006, 04:44 PM #4
liberal mediaOriginally Posted by isolatex
01-06-2006, 04:44 PM #5
Nearly 2:00 in Israel. Going to bed. Enjoy the reading. Hope it helps
01-06-2006, 04:45 PM #6Originally Posted by 3Vandoo
Already beat ya to it Van
01-06-2006, 04:46 PM #7Originally Posted by Logan13
01-06-2006, 05:11 PM #8Junior Member
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this is what im trying to get at. everyone has been getting quotes from MEMRI
do you people know MEMRI is actaully run by israelis who where deom the israeli intelligence agency and millitry.
this article talks mainly about arabic and MEMRI translarions and is 2002 but iranian president speaks farsi and it was in 2005 that he was quoted.
i persoanlly belive news papers like AP, BBC and others have been lately going to places such as MEMRI and similar to get there quotes and news stories and have just been repeating the same things as those main websites.
but nobody has actaully show me a independant quotes of the iranian president. with a the origanal farsi so that it can be independently verifyed what he said.
01-06-2006, 05:16 PM #9
I have spoken to Iranians and people that speak Farsi, and they say Ahmadnejad's words are changed and mistraslated.
01-06-2006, 06:03 PM #10Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
When has he come out (personally) and spoken to the western media to clarify his remarks? He hasn't.
01-06-2006, 06:11 PM #11Junior Member
Originally Posted by AIZ
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01-06-2006, 06:38 PM #12
okOriginally Posted by CAUSASIAN
01-07-2006, 07:22 AM #13Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
However from your beloved Aljazeera..............
Ahmadinejad: Holocaust a myth
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, has again caused international outcry by repeating his view that the Holocaust was a myth.
In a speech broadcast live on state television on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad told a crowd in the southern city of Zahedan: "They have fabricated a legend under the name Massacre of the Jews, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves.
"If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream."
01-07-2006, 07:27 AM #14
all the Iranian that want the good regime to be overthrown are pro shah Iranian, how hypocrite they are they ignore the atoricities and mass graves committed by the dicatorship of the shah yet they want to overthraw the democratic theocracy in Iran, befor the islamic revolution Iran was just a base for britain and usa just like kuwait it was an infested nest for the filthy Mossad agents, it was not a country it was base!
01-07-2006, 07:51 AM #15Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
01-07-2006, 08:47 AM #16Originally Posted by Bigen12
But I am sure he said something similiar to the quotes above. I will try to find out exactly what he said. And paste it here.
01-07-2006, 09:25 AM #17Junior Member
Originally Posted by Bigen12
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every one has beet quoting 1 source for that quote i dont actally think any one has the origanal speach from which it was translated.
even a diplomat form iran has actaully stated hes been misquoted :
01-07-2006, 09:31 AM #18Junior Member
Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
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what alot of people dont understand is that about 10-15% of iranian population are unhappy with the government and incidently they also happen to be the most loud mouthed of all and have alot of money so they have there own radio stations, tv channels and news pappers and make it seem as if the whole country hates the governemnt.
these 10-15% are also the same people who where the most powerfull families in iran before the revolution and most of them ran away after the dictatorship got overthrown and want the shah back in power. so they can get back the power that they lost.
dont get me wrong alot of people are very unhappy the way the revolution turned becuase it failed to deliver what was promised and they made too many stupid laws like not having long hair for men? even prophet mohammed had long hair so why this stupid law? and its things like these which really piss the people off.
people need to stop acting as if iran is unstable becuase of the 15% its like sayin america is unstable becuase over 40% of the population doesnt like the current government republicans/bush. if america can survice and be stable with over 40% of population hating the gov then so can irans with only a max of 15% gating the gov.
01-07-2006, 10:48 AM #19
Whether you like it or not, MEMRI is one of the most respected Academic Institutes for Middle East media research. Whether Muslim, Jewish, etc working there..doesn't matter. They simply translate what was stated from languages in the Middle East.
01-07-2006, 10:55 AM #20Junior Member
Originally Posted by AIZ
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MEMRI is not respectable becuase it is not neutral.
and there translation are highly questionable as well becuase they do not present the origanal speach to verify it.
for example if some chinese guy says "i'll kill you" for a joke i could translate it as a joke or i could translate it and make it seem violent its up to me and if nobody else has access to the quote then they cant verify how or what was said.
MEMRI is not neutral and is not reliable info.
01-07-2006, 11:14 AM #21
wasteOriginally Posted by isolatex
01-07-2006, 11:27 AM #22Junior Member
Originally Posted by Logan13
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i need the origanal quotes thats the purpose of this post.
all quotes that are shown in the media are identicle meaning they came from 1 source. where is the origanal text nobody has it so how can we confirm if this is correct. even all the news papers didnt directly translate the stuff themselves and got it from somewhere else.
Originally Posted by Logan13
this is what seperate normal people from dipshits.
01-07-2006, 12:29 PM #23
ignoranceOriginally Posted by isolatex
"interesting you say this becuase i refure to take any information as truth until i can compare it with the origanal source i am full of shit huh" You refuse to take any information as truth yet you can take any information as false? You make no sense.
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