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  1. #1
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    $1 Million Dollar Reward and the Qur'an

    This blew me away. Jerusalem, in case anyone doesn't know, is the holiest city to the Jewish People and the Temple Mount is the holiest spot. It is mentioned 700 times in the Torah. To Christians it is also holy. To Muslims, it is the "3rd holiest site in Islam"; that is, coming after Mecca and Medina.

    Offer: $1 million for Finding "Jerusalem" in the Koran

    For at least four years, Jamal Badawi, an Egyptian-born Canadian professor of management at St. Mary University in Halifax, Canada, who sidelines as an apologist for radical Islam, has made a standing offer: "a million dollars to anyone who finds the word of ‘holy war' in the Qur'an." Of course, Badawi is right: the Islamic scripture includes neither the words harb muqaddasa nor any synonyms.

    In the same spirit, I offer a million dollars to anyone who finds the name "Jerusalem" (Iliya, Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis), in the Koran. Metaphors, similes, allegories, allusions, and implicit references do not count, just an accepted proper name referring to that city, using the standard Egyptian text. (January 4, 2006)

    http://www.danielpipes.org

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    Well, that's going to be a million bucks that is never collected on.

    I find it strange that the word Jerusalem doesn't even appear in the Qu'ran and yet there are Muslims that want it so bad... What is the reasoning behind that?

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    Again Mecca and Medina is mentioned only a couple of times in the Quran.

    Politically Jerusalem is the most important city in Islam today, religiously its third.

    The Hadiths are pretty clear on the issue. And the Hadiths are the second most important text in Islam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Again Mecca and Medina is mentioned only a couple of times in the Quran.

    Politically Jerusalem is the most important city in Islam today, religiously its third.

    The Hadiths are pretty clear on the issue. And the Hadiths are the second most important text in Islam.
    Can you admit that its the holiest city to Jews and the torah praises the city over 700 times? Just curious

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    This blew me away. Jerusalem, in case anyone doesn't know, is the holiest city to the Jewish People and the Temple Mount is the holiest spot. It is mentioned 700 times in the Torah. To Christians it is also holy. To Muslims, it is the "3rd holiest site in Islam"; that is, coming after Mecca and Medina.
    This claim is baseless. The reason they find difficulty in acknowledging the position of Jerusalem and the Haram As-Shareef in Islam is because of the general tendency of studying Islam in seclusion of the traditions of the Prophets of God preceding Muhammad(P). Islam is not a new religion. It has never claimed to be so. The Qur’ân has clearly stated that Islam was the religion taught by all the prophets of God. The Islamic tradition is thus a continuation of the correct traditions of Judaism. If those in opposition to the Muslim claim over Jerusalem were to actually look at Islam, in the light of the foregoing principle, he/she would not find any problem in acknowledging that the position of Jerusalem in Islam is the same as it is in Judaism, merely on the grounds that Islam is actually in continuation of the true traditions of the prophets of God - including Moses(P), David(P), Solomon(P), John the Baptist(P) and Jesus(P) - even though the name of Jerusalem is not even mentioned once in the Qur’ân.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Can you admit that its the holiest city to Jews and the torah praises the city over 700 times? Just curious
    Is this a trick question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    For at least four years, Jamal Badawi, an Egyptian-born Canadian professor of management at St. Mary University in Halifax, Canada, who sidelines as an apologist for radical Islam, has made a standing offer: "a million dollars to anyone who finds the word of ‘holy war' in the Qur'an." Of course, Badawi is right: the Islamic scripture includes neither the words harb muqaddasa nor any synonyms.
    Interesting.

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    Are you serious about the $1 million AIZ?

    I asked an Egyptian colleage about this and he told me it was mentioned in Chapter 17: Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

    Farthest Mosque = the holy mosque in Jerusalem

    Shall I PM you my account number?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Interesting.
    This one is interesting. As for Jerusalem, no it wasn't a trick question. Not at all. I just wanted to see if you could actually bring yourself to say, "yes, Jerusalem is the holiest city in the world to the Jewish People and yet it is mentioned in the ancient Hebrew Bible over 700 times". If you were to ask me if Mecca and Medina are the 2 holiest cities in Islam, I would say, "of course". Follow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex2
    Are you serious about the $1 million AIZ?

    I asked an Egyptian colleage about this and he told me it was mentioned in Chapter 17: Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

    Farthest Mosque = the holy mosque in Jerusalem

    Shall I PM you my account number?
    Hey Alex, "Jerusalem" is not in the Qur'an. Yes, the "furthest Mosque" is. Whatever that means is up to interpretation. As for the 1 million, yes its true but only b/c you can't answer it. "Jerusalem" is not in the Qur'an. Read the question again, saying the "furthest mosque" doesn't count. That could mean anything.

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    Actually.....the promise to the Jews has been given to the Holy Roman Catholic Church........the Spiritual Jerusalem.......you guys get way too worked up over a piece of real estate.......shows how false your religions really are.......killing other men who are God's children over an earthly estate........tsk tsk tsk......just like the US.......greedy greedy

    You're constant attacks, and your typical MO of turning all threads to a debate of your hatred of the US is getting very old.

    I thought you had quit the board, even asked to have your account removed?



    Bigen12
    Last edited by Bigen12; 01-11-2006 at 06:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Actually.....the promise to the Jews has been given to the Holy Roman Catholic Church........the Spiritual Jerusalem.......you guys get way too worked up over a piece of real estate.......shows how false your religions really are.......killing other men who are God's children over an earthly estate........tsk tsk tsk......just like the US.......greedy greedy

    If you Jews hadn't have slain all your prophets and the Messiah.......you might have someone to lead you......but what are you all to do???.....no temple prophets or sacrifice.........where is your religion AIZ????........seems it has evolved into the quest for the holy deed.......far cry from the day of Atonement when your priest entered the Holy of Holies with a rope tied to his leg in case he messed up.......
    Watch it, badgerman. There are better ways of having a debate. Offending and calling my people murderers of G-d's children won't get you anywhere with me. I hope you get banned for this. I might have my issues with fanatical Muslims but I don't group them as an entire people as you have done.

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    jews didnt slay the messiah and anyone who understands wouldnt even say that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    jews didnt slay the messiah and anyone who understands wouldnt even say that.
    Thank you. Not only does one not understand when they make those comments but it is also a major root of classical anti-Semitism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    jews didnt slay the messiah and anyone who understands wouldnt even say that.
    You obviously don't understand the passover then......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    You obviously don't understand the passover then......
    No, obviously you don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Watch it, badgerman. There are better ways of having a debate. Offending and calling my people murderers of G-d's children won't get you anywhere with me. I hope you get banned for this. I might have my issues with fanatical Muslims but I don't group them as an entire people as you have done.
    I am sorry but he seems to be repeating what the New Testament says -

    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

    14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

    15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

    16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

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    Thank You C..........

    Sometimes a goldfish needs to get outside the tank to see the reality

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    AIZ.......how does the Jew handle sin now with no day of Atonement in the Holy of Holies??.......is that a problem......or is sin a non-issue nowdays??

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    I am sorry but he seems to be repeating what the New Testament says -

    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

    14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

    15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

    16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
    Haha! This is why I left that post alone. I'm not getting sucked into that one.

    BTW, Jews did kill Jesus, even if they didn't pull the metaphorical trigger they were sure aiming the gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    I am sorry but he seems to be repeating what the New Testament says -

    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

    14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

    15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

    16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
    Hello my cousin of the Jewish people,

    I was mainly referring to this quote by badgerman: "If you Jews hadn't have slain all your prophets and the Messiah...."

    His claim is ignorant and anti-Semitic; it's really that simple. The Catholic Church has openly declared that Jews were not responsible for Jesus' death. What does the New Testament have to do with his anti-Jewish/anti-Israel remarks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    AIZ.......how does the Jew handle sin now with no day of Atonement in the Holy of Holies??.......is that a problem......or is sin a non-issue nowdays??
    Our holiest, unfortunately, is beneath the Dome of the Rock, so there's not too much to do about that. Atonement comes from within, Badgerman...you don't have to stand in the temple to ask for forgiveness.

    Yes, sin is always an issue, for everyone. Try toning it down a bit. You are very hostile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfactory
    Haha! This is why I left that post alone. I'm not getting sucked into that one.

    BTW, Jews did kill Jesus, even if they didn't pull the metaphorical trigger they were sure aiming the gun.
    Oh my G-d. Jesus was born a Jew, became a Rabbi, a Talmudic Scholar, and died (a Jew) at the hands of the Romans. I hope you don't base Gibson's film on understanding facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Oh my G-d. Jesus was born a Jew, became a Rabbi, a Talmudic Scholar, and died (a Jew) at the hands of the Romans. I hope you don't base Gibson's film on understanding facts.
    I never saw that film. I already know how everything goes from the New Testament.

    I didn't say that all Jews got together and killed this man. But weren't the Pharisees a sorta political group of Jews? So I should say that a group of Jews are responsible for the death of Christ and not Jews as a whole. Better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Hello my cousin of the Jewish people,

    I was mainly referring to this quote by badgerman: "If you Jews hadn't have slain all your prophets and the Messiah...."

    His claim is ignorant and anti-Semitic; it's really that simple. The Catholic Church has openly declared that Jews were not responsible for Jesus' death. What does the New Testament have to do with his anti-Jewish/anti-Israel remarks?
    Didnt you read the quote from the New Testament?

    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

    14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

    15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:


    Obviously I dont belive Jesus (PBUH) was killed by the Jews, because I belive he didnt die or wasnt killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfactory
    So I should say that a group of Jews are responsible for the death of Christ and not Jews as a whole. Better?
    No. You should never say that a Jew, a group of Jews, or Jews, are responsible for the death of Jesus. The Romans crucified Jesus (Joshua was his Hebrew name). If it is true that a group of Jews didn't like his radical form of teaching, that doesn't make them responsible for his death. The killers are responsible.

    G-d!!! I though this Jews killed Jesus ridiculous argument was in the past. Jews have been slaughtered by the thousands b/c of this twisted way of thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Didnt you read the quote from the New Testament?

    1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

    14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

    15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:


    Obviously I dont belive Jesus (PBUH) was killed by the Jews, because I belive he didnt die or wasnt killed.
    C, I wasn't commenting on your quote...I was commenting on the statement by bagerman that Jews killed "the messiah". This isn't about your views on the New Testament, which is irrelevant to devout Muslims. This is about an anti-Semitiic comment that you know is anti-Semitic. I surprised that you can't see his comment as such

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    Actually in Christianity, Jesus (PBUH) should thank whoever killed him. Whoever it is. Because in Christianity if Jesus (PBUH) didnt die, there is no route to "salvation".

    According to Christianity there are two people responsible of the death of Jesus (PBUH). That is Pilate and the Jewish High Priest Caiaphas. Remember it was Caiaphas that asked to have Jesus (PBUH) arrested, and he was helped by Judas in finding Jesus (PBUH).

    You can say its basically this. Jesus (PBUH) in Christianity was killed by the Roman Empire. But the Roman Empire elements consisted of the Jewish High Priest Caiaphas and his whole council, and Pilate and his people.

    You cant blame all Jews or all Romans for this killing obviously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Our holiest, unfortunately, is beneath the Dome of the Rock, so there's not too much to do about that. Atonement comes from within, Badgerman...you don't have to stand in the temple to ask for forgiveness.

    Yes, sin is always an issue, for everyone. Try toning it down a bit. You are very hostile.

    NO.....the Jews and Arabs are hostile.......the way you act.......both descendants of Abraham ........makes me puke.......and then you draw US into the conflict.......

    If you both would get rid of your "eye for an eye" way of thinking......which is ridiculous because as I pointed out you don't follow the Law anyway.....except your chosen law of vengeance.........how can you claim Atonement when you hate your own Brother???.....both you and C??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    You obviously don't understand the passover then......
    That really doesnt say anything unless I am missing something.

    Pilate gave the Jewish people an oppurtunity to release a prisoner from "jail" but they chose Jesus Barabas instead of Jesus of Nazareth (PBUH).
    Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 01-11-2006 at 03:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    If you both would get rid of your "eye for an eye" way of thinking......

    If Israel really believed in an "eye for an eye" middle eastern Arabs would be in awhole shit heap of trouble!.

    AIZ, I really don't know why people on this forum continue to pay heed to what Badgerman has to say. He has no influence on the thinking of others here. Don't go losing sleep over the nutcase.

    Badgerman its taking a cheap shoot using someone's religion against them to win your argument. You knew you were going to offend AIZ with that stuff. I'm telling you now to stop the hatred around here. Stop inciting members to hate the US, Israel, military (which I am) and everyone else who don't fit into your crackpot fvcked up little world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    NO.....the Jews and Arabs are hostile.......the way you act.......both descendants of Abraham ........makes me puke.......and then you draw US into the conflict.......

    If you both would get rid of your "eye for an eye" way of thinking......which is ridiculous because as I pointed out you don't follow the Law anyway.....except your chosen law of vengeance.........how can you claim Atonement when you hate your own Brother???.....both you and C??

    We didn't draw the U.S. into the conflict. If you understood Cold War history you would know that it was in the U.S.'s interest to get involved. Your knowledge on these subjects is limited to some strange little bubble you live in.

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    sorry I cant read all the posts but I will reply to the first post, al Aqsa is mentioned in the qoran (refer to my old thread proving this) and since the AL Aqsa is in Jerusalem this city is very important to muslims , it have a cultural,poltical, religious place in the hearts of the muslims, the muslims dont want al aqsa to be christians & jews (exept the jews that came from outside palestine to settle in jerusalem)free they want it to be a city for all religions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
    sorry I cant read all the posts but I will reply to the first post, al Aqsa is mentioned in the qoran (refer to my old thread proving this) and since the AL Aqsa is in Jerusalem this city is very important to muslims , it have a cultural,poltical, religious place in the hearts of the muslims, the muslims dont want al aqsa to be christians & jews (exept the jews that came from outside palestine to settle in jerusalem)free they want it to be a city for all religions.

    M'guy, hope you are feeling better. Listen, Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Holy Qur'an. Any which way you slice it, you'll never find it. That doesn't mean it isn't holy to Muslims. I never said such a thing. I simply was relaying that the Jewish claim to Jerusalem far outdates any other claims of holiness as it is mentioned in the ancient Hebrew Bible more than 700 times.

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