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  1. #1
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    The us missile attack on pakistan

    What do you guys think of this?

    I think it was a pretty damn cocky thing to do. Even if the us suspected al-Zawahiri was in that village they cant just throw missile at it like that. I mean wtf they should have notified pakistan authorities and let them handle it.

    Shooting missiles on a village in a country with nuclear weapons because they suspect a terrorist is there

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    They must of advised them before. Its jsut that Pak didnt have the means to take the operation so they just authorized the US to do it themselves. Cheaper and faster.

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    well pakistan is pissed off about it so it doesnt seem like they authorised it.

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    What makes you think Musharaf didn't know about it? More than likely he did and its a smart strategy to allow it but use plausible deniability.

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    that sounds like a risky possibility. If he did that and the thruth leaked out his own people would despise him for allowing usa to execute paki cilvilians just because they suspect a terrorist is around.

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    It won't leak out. Pakistanis probably know anyhow. Musharaf is not simply an ally of the U.S. but an ally overall in the war on terror. He works very closely with western intelligence and military. About it being risky: he risks his life everyday simply leading that nation, which is one of the most radical in the Muslim world. He can deal with it.

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    I dont think Musharaf knew about it, the USA did it on purpose, it was a clear message to the civilians there: "Dont help them or you will face the same doom, help us get them and we will stop killing you".

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    well any leader doing that deserves to be hung. You dont just let a foreign nation bomb the shit out of one of your villages just because they suspect a terrorist is there.

    What if egypt suspected a terrorist is hiding in a israeli village. Would you aprove if they shot missiles at that village? Even if the israel leaders in secret agrees??

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    I personally disagreed with it... btw, Johan.. thank you for jacking my topic under a new thread

    why wouldn't they send a light infantry raid on the town? missiles are "area weapons" obviously firing missiles at THREE HOMES in a town is going to cause unacceptable collateral damage

    That right there, was an act of Terrorism if i've ever seen it. If Pakistan was a true soveriegn nation, they would have declared war on the U.S.

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    What is going on with you guys on this thread? How can you possibly think that Musharaf didn't know? It is obvious that he knew. Pakistani and various other western intelligence services work very closely together (including Israeli and Pakistani). Pakistan would never declare war on the U.S. for one main reason: The two nations are allies in the war on terror and coordinate all their moves.

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    If Musharraf knew he is a total puppet, who needs to be replaced.

    If he didnt know he is incompetent.

    Either way, its a bad move by him. I cant belive the Pakistani government is not making a bigger deal out of this.

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    GQ I newer saw your thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    What is going on with you guys on this thread? How can you possibly think that Musharaf didn't know? It is obvious that he knew. Pakistani and various other western intelligence services work very closely together (including Israeli and Pakistani). Pakistan would never declare war on the U.S. for one main reason: The two nations are allies in the war on terror and coordinate all their moves.

    He knowing just makes it worse. If he knew he is a traitor to his own people and deserve a thick rope tied from a branch of a very tall tree. You dont sacrifice your own people just because another nation suspects a prominent terrorist is hiding in a village.

    Did they even kill the terrorist there where trying to hit?

  14. #14
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    didn't see it?.... YOU POSTED IN MY THREAD!!! argh, ACK!.... SOO MAD!!!.... okay, it's all bottled up now

    Pakistan's leader's devotion should lay with his people before his allies, he is mis-representing the people of pakistan's best interests.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    If Musharraf knew he is a total puppet, who needs to be replaced.

    If he didnt know he is incompetent.

    Either way, its a bad move by him. I cant belive the Pakistani government is not making a bigger deal out of this.
    Or...he's a leader who made a choice.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    He knowing just makes it worse. If he knew he is a traitor to his own people and deserve a thick rope tied from a branch of a very tall tree. You dont sacrifice your own people just because another nation suspects a prominent terrorist is hiding in a village.

    Did they even kill the terrorist there where trying to hit?

    Not necessarily. The Pakistanis don't have the technological capabilites that the U.S. and/or NATO has to attacks suspected al-Qa'ida members. Remember that the point of the attack was not to harm civilians but rather al-Qa'ida terrorists.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Not necessarily. The Pakistanis don't have the technological capabilites that the U.S. and/or NATO has to attacks suspected al-Qa'ida members. Remember that the point of the attack was not to harm civilians but rather al-Qa'ida terrorists.

    Well how many confirmed terrorist did they get with the strike?

    They should have let the guy slip by and catched him later. If a terrorist is hiding in the usa they dont go shooting missiles at the village he is hiding. This just shows the american lack of respect. It also shows the lack of respect of the paki leadership towards his own people.

    If you cant get a clean kill let the target go. Killing lots of inocents to get a few terrorist isnt a worthy trade.

  19. #19
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    AIZ.....did you sneak around smoking cigarettes in the school john???......you make everything so.........covert.
    Do you think the bombed families really give a crap about the US now???
    Now we've planted the seeds for more hate.......and these people are WAY more patient than the boomers crowding the wal-marts for an x-box.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    AIZ.....did you sneak around smoking cigarettes in the school john??? ......you make everything so.........covert.
    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Do you think the bombed families really give a crap about the US now???
    No, I don't think they care for us now nor did they ever care. Nevertheless, I feel very, very had for what happened to the women and children. I've spent my time in the military (a western military) and the point is not to hit civilians...no one feels good about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Now we've planted the seeds for more hate
    Well, I agree but unfortunately that is war: it is neither predictable nor fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ

    No, I don't think they care for us now nor did they ever care. Nevertheless, I feel very, very had for what happened to the women and children. I've spent my time in the military (a western military) and the point is not to hit civilians...no one feels good about that.
    But like I say.......you don't feel REALLY bad.......say like how you would feel if you just took one of the women and ripped out her jugular.....like the rocket probably did.......but once you launch the rocket your hands are clean......cause...."I was just following orders, SIR"
    Modern warfare and TV has taken all the "feel bad" away........now we can FEEL GOOD.......cause we are the good ol' USA and we are fighting terrorists........never mind the fact that a few hundred died on the highways last night because of drunk drivers.....and several thousand starved all over the globe........
    Let's spend this war money on BIRTH CONTROL........

  22. #22
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    pls dont force me to clean this thread aswell.....

  23. #23
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    Musharraf knew about it. Yet their is a very fine line between apeasing the West and domestic mullahs. Their is much anti-american sentiment in Pakistan. Therefor it would not be logical to have this issue much publicized. Of course he has to deny it. I AM CERTAIN that the US has a much greater role then what we are led to believe in Pakistan and that is EXACTLY how the US and Musharraf wanted. Be not surprised they work very closely

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    What do you guys think of this?

    I think it was a pretty damn cocky thing to do. Even if the us suspected al-Zawahiri was in that village they cant just throw missile at it like that. I mean wtf they should have notified pakistan authorities and let them handle it.

    Shooting missiles on a village in a country with nuclear weapons because they suspect a terrorist is there

    Let them murder 3,000 people in Sweden and see if you care of international borders when you think you may have a chance to kill the man behind the operation and the movement. The way I see it, they killed 3,000 of our citizens including friends of mine and more than 250 collegues of my father. We reserve the right to strike anywhere we'd like to obtain justice. Sorry if we offended Pakistani sovereignty.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Let them murder 3,000 people in Sweden and see if you care of international borders when you think you may have a chance to kill the man behind the operation and the movement. The way I see it, they killed 3,000 of our citizens including friends of mine and more than 250 collegues of my father. We reserve the right to strike anywhere we'd like to obtain justice. Sorry if we offended Pakistani sovereignty.
    okay, if i understand you right.

    What your saying is, the US can terrorize and kill women & children, because a group of people hurt the U.S.? is that sorta correct?
    lemme ask you something, what would you do to me if i killed your father?


    I assume your answer would be "to kill me". Now, project that answer on to the relatives of the victims killed in the pakistani bombing.

  26. #26
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    It disgusts me when I read how "wrong" we are for taking a chance to kill this bastard. GQ you have no idea what you're talking about. Send a light infantry force into Pakistan? This, why Musharraf denies that US troops operate in his country? We have sat back and watched Pakistan put MINIMAL and very UNTRUSTWORTHY effort in this hunt. I commend Musharraf for walking the fine line he is walking but many in his gov't support radicals. Americans are supposed to wait and sit on the Afghan side of the border hoping that Bin Laden or any of his deputies step back across the border so we can capture of kill them? Or wait for his capture from Pakistani secret services when they won't even step foot in the tribal region where they believe he is hiding? Is this completely assinine to anyone else? Pakistan has taken unprecedented steps to help us but they have an agenda of their own and a scale of power between the military and the tribal people that cannot be tipped. But at the same time you dont wanna be on the bad side of a pissed off super power who just watched THE MOST horrifying, gutless, terrifying attack on our country and people in the history of this nation. I think that most Americans will agree with me that in the days right after September 11th there wasn't a country in the world we wouldn't go war with if they were behind the attacks. I dont care who's integrity is hurt over this, that doesnt bother me. What bothers me is that I still keep a personal photo album of pictures I took in lower Manhattan while this was happening and I can look at it and say these pieces of shit that were responsible for everything are still alive and free.
    Last edited by USfighterFC; 01-15-2006 at 11:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    okay, if i understand you right.

    What your saying is, the US can terrorize and kill women & children, because a group of people hurt the U.S.? is that sorta correct?
    lemme ask you something, what would you do to me if i killed your father?


    I assume your answer would be "to kill me". Now, project that answer on to the relatives of the victims killed in the pakistani bombing.

    If we were wrong, then so be it. Are we suppose to sit back and say "I dont think we should strike that target because there are some women and children there" mean while the Most Wanted Man in the World could be there at that time also. It's a catch 22, and I'm sorry that innocent people die. But hey if you're inviting the wolf in for dinner than dont expect the hunter to have any mercy for you either.

  28. #28
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    Oh, and has anyone sorta put this together

    They found Saddam Hussien (didnt attack the U.S.),
    Osama Bin Laden is still no where to be found (attacked the U.S., even before 9/11)

    the U.S. have 150 thousand soldiers in Iraq (ahem, oil)
    only 10 thousand in afghanistan..

    The CIA didnt act on 9/11

    The CIA was wrong about wpns of mass destruction in Iraq

    US Army Intelligence put together the finding of Saddam Hussien NOT the CIA

    The CIA ordered an attack on pakistan, killing 18 civilians, mostly women & children w/o hitting their intended target... which even if they had, would have been meaningless.


    I think the CIA should look at the way they do bussiness.. mabey give their agents a little more training time

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    Point being is if your harbor a terrorist, you are a terrorist. You are helping his cause by giving him shelter. If he leaves and I bomb your house and kill you and yours, do you expect sympathy from me? I'm not saying Zawahiri was there but he was expected to have a nice Sunday brunch at that same location. A woman is a woman and a child is a child but dont think because they are what they are that means their innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    Oh, and has anyone sorta put this together

    They found Saddam Hussien (didnt attack the U.S.),
    Osama Bin Laden is still no where to be found (attacked the U.S., even before 9/11)

    the U.S. have 150 thousand soldiers in Iraq (ahem, oil)
    only 10 thousand in afghanistan..

    The CIA didnt act on 9/11

    The CIA was wrong about wpns of mass destruction in Iraq

    US Army Intelligence put together the finding of Saddam Hussien NOT the CIA

    The CIA ordered an attack on pakistan, killing 18 civilians, mostly women & children w/o hitting their intended target... which even if they had, would have been meaningless.


    I think the CIA should look at the way they do bussiness.. mabey give their agents a little more training time

    There is much blame to go around on the CIA failures. You can date this back to the Clinton era where he cut field agents by over 90%!!!!. He dismissed over 600,000 members of the military and cut funding to the CIA and the Armed Forces radically. But we can go even further than that but I'll leave it there. The CIA has stated that when they're funding was cut and field agents brought home it was like flying blind. They had no idea what was going on around them and admittedly stated that because the cuts were so drastic it could take more than 10 years for them to get back to pre-cut era.

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    You also gotta think of it this way with Saddam. The guy had no support. Every country around there hated his guts and most of his people did as well. He had probably a tiny minority that probably would have turned him in for the cash. Lets say Iran liked Saddam for conversations sake. If Saddam crossed the border and has their support we'd never find the guy. Saddam did himself in by making as many enemies as he did.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Let them murder 3,000 people in Sweden and see if you care of international borders when you think you may have a chance to kill the man behind the operation and the movement. The way I see it, they killed 3,000 of our citizens including friends of mine and more than 250 collegues of my father. We reserve the right to strike anywhere we'd like to obtain justice. Sorry if we offended Pakistani sovereignty.

    2 wrongs doesnt make a right. Are you saying the deaths in america is vindicated by the death of pakistani children?

    If that happened in sweden I would not support sweden shooting missiles at sovereign countries just because we suspect a terrorist is at the location. There are better ways to handle this. I would rather se him escape then to know we bombed the wrong place out of recklesness.
    Last edited by Kärnfysikern; 01-16-2006 at 06:01 AM.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    Point being is if your harbor a terrorist, you are a terrorist. You are helping his cause by giving him shelter. If he leaves and I bomb your house and kill you and yours, do you expect sympathy from me? I'm not saying Zawahiri was there but he was expected to have a nice Sunday brunch at that same location. A woman is a woman and a child is a child but dont think because they are what they are that means their innocent.

    Lets turn the tables. A terrorist kills a couple of hundrad swedes and runs and hides in a small american village. Sweden decides to take matters in there own hands so we bomb the shit out of that village. American children dies.
    How would you respond?

  34. #34
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    But what I find as the worst thing with this situation is that america fired missiles at a sovereing NUCLEAR POWER. Now if that Musharraf knows or not isnt the point because he publicly denies it. Justifying what the extremists are saying.

    Do usa realy want to piss of a country that has lots of extremists and nuclear weapons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by USfighterFC
    You also gotta think of it this way with Saddam. The guy had no support. Every country around there hated his guts and most of his people did as well. He had probably a tiny minority that probably would have turned him in for the cash. Lets say Iran liked Saddam for conversations sake. If Saddam crossed the border and has their support we'd never find the guy. Saddam did himself in by making as many enemies as he did.
    if they hated saddam so much, why is there an insurgency?

  36. #36
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    Pak

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    well pakistan is pissed off about it so it doesnt seem like they authorised it.
    I have a buddy who works for the US gov't. I talked to him on Saturday about this. The US got permission from the Pak gov't since they could not act as quickly as the US. The Pak leadership is only acting shocked by this because they fear some retribution in their country. This was a predetermined political stance by the Pak's when they gave their permission to the US.

  37. #37
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    Swedes

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Lets turn the tables. A terrorist kills a couple of hundrad swedes and runs and hides in a small american village. Sweden decides to take matters in there own hands so we bomb the shit out of that village. American children dies.
    How would you respond?
    Do the Swedes even have a military with which to carry this out?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    Oh, and has anyone sorta put this together

    They found Saddam Hussien (didnt attack the U.S.),
    Osama Bin Laden is still no where to be found (attacked the U.S., even before 9/11)

    the U.S. have 150 thousand soldiers in Iraq (ahem, oil)
    only 10 thousand in afghanistan..

    The CIA didnt act on 9/11

    The CIA was wrong about wpns of mass destruction in Iraq

    US Army Intelligence put together the finding of Saddam Hussien NOT the CIA

    The CIA ordered an attack on pakistan, killing 18 civilians, mostly women & children w/o hitting their intended target... which even if they had, would have been meaningless.


    I think the CIA should look at the way they do bussiness.. mabey give their agents a little more training time
    I am so grateful that we, the US, got all that oil from Iraq. Otherwise we might have experienced a HUGE price increase in fuel this past year........wait a minute, we did. Move your bleeding heart liberal ass to the Middle East and then tell me how you feel, maybe get into one of those camps over there that shares your stance on the US.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    Do the Swedes even have a military with which to carry this out?
    No we have a small military with defense as only objective. No offensive capabilities. Its whole purpose was to be able to bleed the soviets as bad as possible if they decide to invade. But after the cold war ended we have cut down alot on it.

    I dont se how that is valid to my question though.

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    silly

    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    No we have a small military with defense as only objective. No offensive capabilities. Its whole purpose was to be able to bleed the soviets as bad as possible if they decide to invade. But after the cold war ended we have cut down alot on it.

    I dont se how that is valid to my question though.
    I was being a smart-ass. You are still my dog, Johan.

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