Thread: And...the civil war begins
01-27-2006, 05:25 AM #1
And...the civil war begins
This is only the beginning. As people predicted the rise of Hamas, others predicted that a civil war would follow.
Hamas, Fatah militants exchange gunfire in Gaza Strip
Hamas and Fatah gunmen exchanged fire in the Gaza Strip on Friday, the first such gun battle since the Islamic militant group crushed the long-dominant Palestinian faction in a parliamentary election.
According to witnesses at least two people were wounded in the clash near the city of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip. The witnesses described the incident as a feud over the election results.
The gunfight came as earlier on Friday Hamas leaders, following their parliamentary election victory, expressed their wish to form "political partnership" with Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. A leader of the militant Islamic group said Hamas will hold talks with Fatah leadership in a few days.
"I telephoned President Abbas and we agreed to hold a meeting as soon as he arrives in Gaza, in about two days' time," Ismail Haniyeh, who headed Hamas's list of candidates, told Reuters.
After the results of Wednesday's vote were announced, Hamas called for immediate talks among factions to discuss formation of a new government. But leaders of Abbas's long-dominant Fatah party said they wanted no part in such a coalition.
01-27-2006, 06:26 AM #2
I think some small act wont lead to a civil war as long as the head of the leadership have an agreements befor and after the elections, but this wont stop some young hamas and fatah supporters to have some little fights like befor, anyway the Palestinians are aware now that their weapons should only be pointed at "israel" thats why Hamas swept the elections.
01-27-2006, 10:15 AM #3Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
You have a poly-sci degree, right?
01-27-2006, 10:20 AM #4
Fatah should just keep quiet and accept defeat. They were incapable and incompetent, not to mention corrupt.
But exchanges like this happen all the time, between Fatah and Hamas, and other groups.
Also happens in Israel with the Jews.
01-27-2006, 10:22 AM #5Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
"They did not choose Hamas because Hamas opposes peace with Israel but because they want better and more secure lives (not likely to happen if Hamas starts firing missiles at Israel). The majority of Palestinians – like the majority of Israelis – support the two-state solution. Nor did mostly secular Palestinians choose ! Hamas because they want a religiously fundamentalist state like Iran.
No, they voted for Hamas primarily because they view the Islamic organization as honest, as compared to the long-entrenched Fatah movement. The Palestinians decided to "throw the bums out," focusing more on whom they did not want in power rather than on whom they did want."
01-27-2006, 10:28 AM #6
That is what I said. Fatah was corrupt, incompetent and incapable. Hamas is a honest group, and wont be corrupt. And will actually help the people of Palestine as a whole.
01-27-2006, 10:53 AM #7
There is now demos now from fatah supporters against fatah leadership they are asking the leadership to resign, and YES I think the people elected Hamas because Oslo and other peace talk didnt bring anything to the Palestinians, and I beleive that the responsible on destroying the Palestinian governement is "israel" and we all rememeber when they tried to corner Yasser Arafat to weaken him and increase the strenght of the prime minister Koreii,the irony is by this act "israel" weakened Fatah and made Hamas more stronger.
About the election a high intelligence figure in "israel" said that the mossad was surprised by the results of the elections , plus in a stat 50% of the "israeli" people wants talks and negociations with Hamas thats a big a yes on the question 'Do "israeli" only negociate with a powerfull opponent?'
01-27-2006, 11:25 AM #8Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
01-27-2006, 11:30 AM #9Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
01-27-2006, 11:32 AM #10Retired Vet
Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
- Join Date
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01-27-2006, 11:34 AM #11
I actually agree with the quote above that says the "palestinians" voted for hamas because they are honest.
I think that is one thing that rings true about them, and frees Israel's hands somewhat in de****g with the terrorism problem. Hamas is honest, and very clear about their intention to conquer all of Israel, slaughter all the Jews..etc.
Arafat was very two faced, pledging peace in english, and death to Jews in arabic. This type of behavior won over the Europeans, and the U.S. to a certain extent, forcing Israel to deal with it.
It will be much more difficult now for the "palestinians" to have the same sympathy, with such an honest leadership.
01-27-2006, 11:40 AM #12Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
Suicide bombers + Al Kasam rocket attacks + political assasinations + Stoning kids to death + etc = Honesty?..... I don't think so.
01-27-2006, 11:45 AM #13Originally Posted by AIZ
01-27-2006, 11:55 AM #14Originally Posted by BOUNCER
01-27-2006, 12:01 PM #15
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Thousands of activists from Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Party rallied across the Gaza Strip on Friday, burning abandoned cars, shooting in the air and demanding corrupt leaders resign after their devastating election loss to the militant Hamas movement.
With Hamas winning a strong majority in parliamentary elections, Abbas said he will ask the Islamic group to form the next Palestinian government, but Fatah rejected a role in the new Cabinet and Israel ruled out peace talks in what could be the first steps to isolate the militant group after its election victory.
Acting Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni asked world leaders not to legitimize a government led by Hamas, saying elections are not a "whitewash" for terrorist groups.
Livni told reporters that Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last summer opened a window of opportunity in peace efforts, but with the election of Hamas, "the Palestinians slammed it shut."
In the first real violence since the vote, an argument between about 20 Hamas and Fatah loyalists in the Gaza town of Khan Younis degenerated into gunfire and rock- throwing Friday that left three injured. One man was treated for gunshot wounds and two for minor injuries caused by rocks, according to witnesses and hospital officials.
On Friday night, thousands of Fatah activists burned cars and shot in the air in rallies demanding the resignation of corrupt party officials and insisting that Fatah form no coalition with Hamas.
About 1,000 angry party activists, including 100 gunmen, drove by Abbas' Gaza residence, although he was not home at the time. The Fatah defeat was seen as a rebuke to veteran — and corrupt — party leaders who have resisted calls for reform by its young guard.
"This demonstration is a natural reaction of Fatah supporters and members. We have one demand that the (Fatah) Central Committee and the Revolutionary Council should resign immediately," said Samir Mashrawi, a local Fatah leader who lost in the election. The protesters did not specifically call for Abbas' ouster.
Polls published Friday in Israeli newspapers showed support among Israelis for talks with a Palestinian government led by Hamas.
The United States and some European nations said Hamas must renounce violence and drop its demand to destroy Israel.
But Mahmoud Zahar, an incoming Hamas parliamentarian and one of the group's top leaders in Gaza, said the organization had no immediate plans to change its policy to recognize Israel or to restart peace efforts.
"Israel has nothing to give for the Palestinians. All the time they were wasting our time ... implementing nothing," he said. "If the Israelis have something to fulfill the basic demand of the Palestinian people concerning the occupied territories, detainees, question of Jerusalem, our national interests, we are going to re-evaluate this argument."
U.S. Consul-General Jacob Walles said Washington would halt aid to Palestinians should a Hamas-led government come to power and not renounce terror.
The U.S. gave the Palestinian Authority $400 million in direct aid last year and several million more through U.N. charities, Walles said. Some was given directly to Palestinian ministries.
"I don't see how we would do that if those ministries were controlled by Hamas," he said.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is to meet in London on Monday with U.N., Russian and European leaders as the so-called "Quartet" of would-be international peacemakers evaluates the results and tries to decide how to proceed.
Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said he had asked Abbas to meet Sunday to discuss forming a new government. Abbas' office said no appointment has been made yet. Abbas said separately he would ask Hamas to lead the next government.
Israel was unprepared for the Hamas landslide. Foreign and Defense Ministry scenarios had put such a stunning blow to the long-ruling Fatah as a low probability, officials said.
But after the rout, acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert quickly ruled out talks.
"The state of Israel will not negotiate with a Palestinian administration if even part of it is an armed terrorist organization calling for the destruction of the state of Israel," Olmert said.
In Syria, a prominent Hamas leader pledged to continue resistance against Israeli occupation, although he did not specify if that meant violent opposition, and he stressed that the group would not yet recognize the Jewish state.
"As long as there is occupation and so long as our people's rights are usurped, our stand will remain as it is. We would resist the (Israeli) occupation to restore our rights," Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy head of the Hamas movement, said in an interview with The Associated Press.
Hamas ideology does not recognize the presence of a Jewish state in an Islamic Middle East. In recent years, however, some Hamas leaders have grudgingly accepted the idea of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, as long as it is understood to be only a stage toward freeing the rest of Palestine — meaning Israel.
Livni said she spoke to several foreign ministers and told them of the need to send "a very clear, unequivocal message ... that elections are not a whitewash for terror."
"In these talks, I also made clear what was decided in the consultation with the acting prime minister, that Hamas cannot be a partner of Israel and the fact that it will lead the Palestinian Authority, if indeed this is what will happen, this means the Palestinian Authority also cannot be a partner, in the eyes of Israel and the whole world," she said.
Avi Dichter, a former Israeli security services chief, said he didn't expect terrorism to rise once Hamas takes over.
"The moment they become partner to the Palestinian government, reality will become a lot more complicated for them than it was when they were a terror organization alone," Dichter told Army Radio.
Economic constraints are also likely to curb Hamas' extremism. With the Palestinian Authority dependent on foreign aid for its survival and on Israel for day-to-day needs such as electricity, water and the movement of people and goods, Hamas will have a hard time ignoring international calls to renounce violence.
Former President Carter told the AP the United States should increase its donations to U.N. and other aid groups earmarked for the Palestinians to make up for the cut in direct aid "so that the people can still continue to have food and shelter and health care and education."
Carter met Friday with Abbas, who told him that the Palestinian Authority could not pay salaries at the end of the month, even with foreign aid.
If aid is cut off, "it would create an element of chaos unless the money is made up by other sources," he said. "If the Arab countries come through and the European countries continue to help and maybe Japan, they could continue to operate."
Hamas leaders themselves have hinted that despite their hard-line ideology, they will be pragmatic and not disrupt daily life in the territories.
A poll conducted Thursday and published in the Maariv daily said 40 percent of Israelis say Israel should negotiate with Hamas if the group renounces its determination to destroy Israel. Another 27 percent say talks should be held with no conditions, based on the "road map" peace plan.
The poll showed 29 percent of Israelis favored cutting off all contacts with the Palestinians, freezing talks and resuming targeted killings of Hamas leaders. The poll of 552 people had a 4.2 percentage-point margin of error.
A second poll in the Yediot Ahronot newspaper showed that 48 percent of those questioned by the Dahaf Research Institute said Israel should negotiate with Hamas, while 43 percent said Israel should shun a Hamas-led government. The poll of 500 people had a 4.5 percentage point margin of error and was conducted Wednesday night, before Hamas' victory was announced.
01-27-2006, 12:38 PM #16Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
An "Arab", by definition, refers to someone who can trace their historical roots to "Arabia". That is, true "Arabs" are those that descended from the Arabian Heartland (Mecca, Medina especially).
M'guy, I guess you're a Lebanese-Muslim who believes in the idea of the following: "Arab nationalism declares that Arabs are united in a shared history, culture and language. Arab nationalists believe that Arab identity encompasses more than outward physical characteristics, race or religion. Arab nationalism has often competed for existence with regional and ethnic nationalisms in the Middle East, such as Lebanese and Egyptian."
So, you might not actually be a true "Arab" in the historical sense of the word, right?
01-27-2006, 12:40 PM #17
Back to the main topic...the most recent headline:
Fatah members urge PA to reject gov't with Hamas
Trouble is brewing
01-27-2006, 04:02 PM #18Originally Posted by AIZ
so what I am trying to explain is every "sayid" is pure Arab since all "sayids" are related to the prophet (pbuh).
sayid hassan nasrallah, sayid khatami,sayid ali khamenai ect... are all from the prophet family(pbuh) when a "sayid" become a sheikh he put a black scarf not a white scarf on his head. Being a "sayid" doesnt mean your a sheikh or a religious person its just a family thing.
01-27-2006, 04:07 PM #19
I am the descendant of a pure Italian pasta maker!
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