01-28-2006, 07:30 PM #1
Muslims believe the Jews are "settlers"? Makes no sense to me.
Obviously there are many accounts of history. Each side claiming it's own........ Of course my opinion is of Biblical origins (the oldest account, therefore most reliable, IMO).
State your case!
01-28-2006, 11:17 PM #2
Many Muslims consider anyone else on "their" land to be illegitimate and infidels. What many Muslims fail to remember is that before they conqured and colonized the land (by the sword) the area was inhabited by others.
Israel is the homeland of the Jewish People. Always has been, always will be...long before the Muslims left Arabia to conquer the area.
01-29-2006, 02:12 AM #3
this says it all :
01-29-2006, 02:21 AM #4
plus according to the International War Law every settler on an occupied land is considered a solider.
01-29-2006, 02:44 AM #5
from the above united nations map its obvious there was more jews(4%) in Gaza than Jeruslame(2%)
01-29-2006, 06:26 AM #6
why do even people care what tribe lived where 2000 years ago? Just another example of religion causing crap!!
Hell its not like the same's is trying to force away swedes from northern sweden. Native americans isnt waging war on the states. The inka/aztek/ect descendants arent trying to get back south and central america from the spaniards. Africans arent trying to kick the shit out of whites in south africa.
If you lost the land get over it. Deal with reality not the distant past. I mean how many countries in the middle east has the same borders now as 2000 years ago??? Not a single one I bet.
Does anyone realy think god wants brothers and sisters to stab eachother in the back in order to regain a totaly worthless plot of land?
01-29-2006, 06:38 AM #7Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 07:00 AM #8Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
01-29-2006, 07:11 AM #9
[QUOTE=MilitiaGuy]this says it all :
Actually, this says it all:
"The only period in the last 3,000 years without a continued Jewish presence in the West Bank was the 19 years between 1948-1967 when the Jordanian government banned Jews from living there."
Otherwise, we've been living in Israel and the territories for 3,300 years. If I calculate correctly, that's approximately 2,000 years before the rise of Islam and just over 2,050 years before 1 Muslim ever stepped foot here.
01-29-2006, 07:46 AM #10Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 10:18 AM #11Originally Posted by johan
That is much easier said than done. You can say "religion" caused this, but the fact is that only pertains to your perception. "Religion", is a man made concept, that is used to describe how a man perceives his relationship with God, or spirituality.
The fact is.... these people don't see it as "religion", they see it as a promise from God. What could be more powerful than that?
01-29-2006, 10:38 AM #12Originally Posted by alphaman
01-29-2006, 10:54 AM #13
I,for the life of me, can't understand whey the arabs strap bombs to their childrens chest and send them to be blown up. That's very very sad. There is other ways to solve conflicts. I don't care if the Jew or Muslim gets violent, it's the one who resorts to peaceful tatics that is going to survive in the long run.
01-29-2006, 11:27 AM #14Originally Posted by johan
Well to those people, the life on this earth is fleeting. Very short in the aspect of the big picture. And they believe that what they do in this short time on earth is dependant on how/where they spend their eternal lives. I am not saying I agree with violent practices. I am saying that it is easier said than done, and that you must understand where these people are coming from before you state that the solution is so simple. If it was that simple, then the problem would have been solved long ago.
01-29-2006, 11:29 AM #15
01-29-2006, 11:35 AM #16Originally Posted by alphaman
01-29-2006, 11:38 AM #17Originally Posted by alphamanIn short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!
I can already tell this is a one sided story. I'm not even going to finish reading it after seeing this.
01-29-2006, 11:40 AM #18
That's an entire one sided website.
01-29-2006, 12:01 PM #19Originally Posted by Big_Flex
Good for you buddy!
01-29-2006, 12:21 PM #20Originally Posted by johan
Well, of course. But again, that's from your point of view, but I bet it would be quite different if you were brought up in those surroundings.
Originally Posted by johan
Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 12:25 PM #21
All do respect Johan, but we're getting off topic here. The thread isn't about whether it's right to squabble over land. It's about presenting evidence of who it belongs to.
01-29-2006, 12:28 PM #22Originally Posted by alphaman
Or does Turkey belong to the Armanians?
It belongs to the people that are living there now. Bottom line.
01-29-2006, 12:31 PM #23Originally Posted by Big_Flex
Excuse me..... evidence of who the rightful owners are........
01-29-2006, 12:40 PM #24Originally Posted by alphaman
How do you decide who the land belongs to? Before presenting evidence we should know what requirements need to be meet to be considered entitled to the land?
Almost ever nation has taken its land by force so I guess the same should be rule of thumb in this case and that means israel belongs to the jews. Offcourse if the arabs manages to occupy the land it becomes arab land.
Who ever lived there 3000, 2000 or 100 years ago doesnt matter much imo.
01-29-2006, 12:43 PM #25
and what is considered a rightfull owner?? Forget about the bible now.
As I said earlier. Is the same's the rightfull owners of northern norway, sweden and finland?
is the native americans the rightfull owners of america?
Just because you have lived in a land for a shitlong time does it make you the rightfull owner?
01-29-2006, 12:43 PM #26Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 12:46 PM #27Originally Posted by johan
Yes and yes.
01-29-2006, 01:02 PM #28
Where did the name "Palestine" come from?
01-29-2006, 01:05 PM #29Originally Posted by alphaman
Originally Posted by alphaman
01-29-2006, 01:17 PM #30Originally Posted by johan
Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 01:24 PM #31Originally Posted by alphaman
btw my "take by force and you get to keep it" argument was to support jews right to israel right now today.
Who acctualy took land from who? did the arabs steal land from the jews and the jews took it back after ww2. Or did the jews steal land from the arabs after ww2?
01-29-2006, 01:30 PM #32Originally Posted by alphaman
01-29-2006, 02:17 PM #33Originally Posted by Big_Flex
Note that people from other races/cultures did that before Arabs; Japanese during WWII, and Tamilies in Sri Lanka.
01-29-2006, 02:21 PM #34Originally Posted by johan
01-29-2006, 03:31 PM #35
I am fed up of arguing about this.
Just lets leave it this way. Muslims will till the end of time will fight for Jerusalem and Palestine. No matter what happens.
I dont care who was there first, I dont care who was there last.
01-29-2006, 03:48 PM #36Originally Posted by alphaman
01-29-2006, 03:54 PM #37
I hope the UN one day divides the US in half, and gives half of the US to Native Americans.
Now they would build settlements, and let Native Americans from across the world, mainly Mexico and South America and Canada come in and settle in to half of the US.
I am sure Americans would welcome this with open arms. They wouldnt fight. They would be peaceful and welcome these people.
Texas at a certain time WAS Mexico. Now when Mexicans are coming back to their historic land, Americans are crying about it. This includes other states like Arizona and New Mexico. Americans also have armed militias guarding the borders with Mexico. Come on, they were there first, give to the Mexicans all of Old Mexico. Aztlan.
Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 01-29-2006 at 03:57 PM.
01-29-2006, 04:07 PM #38
I wonder how Americans would feel if other nations started funding people that would make the US look like this.
01-29-2006, 04:08 PM #39
To be picky....Alot of the mexicans getting back to texas nowdays is probably spaniards not real mexicans....
01-29-2006, 04:10 PM #40Originally Posted by johan
But even if what you said is true, that is perfect for this analogy.
Because most Jews coming into Palestine are Europeans and not Hebrews.
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