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  1. #1
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    Rice Urges No Aid to Hamas Government

    Rice Urges No Aid to Hamas Government

    By ANNE GEARAN, AP Diplomatic Writer



    LONDON - The United States wants other nations to cut off aid to a Hamas-led Palestinian government, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said ahead of an international strategy session on Mideast peace prospects.

    Rice ruled out any U.S. financial assistance to a Hamas government.

    Humanitarian help to the Palestinians, many of whom are poor and unemployed, is likely on a "case-by-case basis," Rice said Sunday. She indicated that the administration would follow through on aid promised to the current, U.S.-backed Palestinian government led by President Mahmoud Abbas.

    "The United States is not prepared to fund an organization that advocates the destruction of Israel, that advocates violence and that refuses its obligations," under an international framework for eventual Mideast peace, Rice said.

    Rice was meeting other members of the so-called Quartet of would-be Mideast peacemakers Monday. The group, which includes the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations, is already on record as saying "there is a fundamental contradiction between armed group and militia activities and the building of a democratic state."

    In Gaza meanwhile, a Hamas leader, Ismail Haniyeh, called on the international community to continue funding the Palestinian Authority.

    "We assure you that all the revenues will be spent on salaries, daily life and infrastructure," he said at a news conference, addressing international concerns that aid would be used to fund violence.

    Diplomats here said ministers with the European Union were ready to jointly call on Hamas to recognize the state of Israel, renounce violence and disarm.

    While EU officials are barred from contact with the Islamic militant group, which it considers a terrorist organization, the EU statement was to make clear that the EU would keep diplomatic channels open with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who is not a member of Hamas, diplomats said on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the talks.

    Rice also will meet separately with other permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to discuss Iran and an upcoming vote on whether to refer the Tehran government to the council over its nuclear program.

    Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance Movement, won a decisive majority in last week's Palestinian legislative elections. The group, which has political and militant wings, will now take a large role in governing the Palestinians. The makeup of the new government is not clear.

    The Islamic militants, who carried out dozens of suicide bombings and seek Israel's destruction, have said they oppose peace talks and will not disarm. Israel refuses to deal with Hamas.

    Hamas' unexpected electoral victory raised questions about the future of the peace process between the Palestinians and Israel, and how the United States can influence such efforts or help impoverished Palestinians.

    "We're going to review all of our assistance programs, but the bedrock principle here is we can't have funding for an organization that holds those views just because it is in government," Rice said.

    The U.S., Europe and Israel list Hamas as a terrorist organization; various Arab governments have contact with the group.

    "It is important that Hamas now will have to confront the implications of its covenant if it wishes to govern," Rice said. "That becomes a primary consideration in anything that we do."

    It is not clear that all European nations or the United Nations would cut off aid, let alone Arab governments that do not recognize Israel.

    "I just think that anyone who is devoted to trying to bring Middle East peace between two states has an obligation now to make sure that anybody that is going to be supported is going to have that same" goal, Rice said.

    U.S. aid is a small part of the $1.6 billion annual budget of the Palestinian Authority.

    About $1 billion comes from overseas donors — more than half of that from European nations. The rest is a mix of funds from international donor agencies, Arab and Asian governments, and the U.S., which gave $70 million in direct aid to the Palestinian Authority last year.

    Separately, the U.S. spent $225 million for humanitarian projects through the U.S. Agency for International Development last year, and gave $88 million for refugee assistance.
    Is it right for the US to with hold Aid from the Hamas Government?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    Is it right for the US to with hold Aid from the Hamas Government?
    Is it right for the US to fund a terrorist regime?

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    It's not just Rice. And no, it goes against the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act to financially support a terror group...no matter if they are elected to power or not.

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    Goes to show that the US doesnt really care about spreading democracy, it just wants to spread its own interests in the Middle East.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Goes to show that the US doesnt really care about spreading democracy, it just wants to spread its own interests in the Middle East.
    Goes to show that the "palestinians" don't really want a democratic state of their own, they just want islamist terror groups in charge in order to slaughter and kill innocent civilians so that an islamo-facist terror state (caliphate) can rule the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kis55
    Goes to show that the "palestinians" don't really want a democratic state of their own, they just want islamist terror groups in charge in order to slaughter and kill innocent civilians so that an islamo-facist terror state (caliphate) can rule the world.
    Funny, but it was a democratic elections in which Hamas won.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Goes to show that the US doesnt really care about spreading democracy, it just wants to spread its own interests in the Middle East.

    I understand your point, but how can we at war with terrorists, and support a terroristic government?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Goes to show that the US doesnt really care about spreading democracy, it just wants to spread its own interests in the Middle East.
    Actually, C, what it goes to show is 2 things:

    1. Hamas and their supporters simply abused ONE institution democracy in order to arrive at their objective, which is not democratic: a theocracy run by an terrorist organization who just happens to initiate social programs on the side.

    2. It's not just the U.S. The EU is also against giving money to Hamas.

    "Among the more infamous Hamas suicide bombings and terrorist attacks were (the following is a representative, not exhaustive, list):"


    The 1 June 2001 suicide bombing of a Tel Aviv discotheque, in which 21 people were murdered and 120 were wounded

    The 9 August 2001 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem restaurant, in which 15 people were murdered and 130 were wounded

    The 1 December 2001 double suicide bombing on the Ben Yehuda Street pedestrian mall in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 188 were wounded

    The 2 December 2001 suicide bombing of a #16 bus in Haifa, in which 15 people were murdered and 40 were wounded

    The 9 March 2002 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem cafe, in which 11 people were murdered and 54 were wounded

    The 27 March 2002 suicide bombing of a Netanya hotel on the first night of Passover, in which 30 people were murdered and 140 were wounded

    The 18 June 2002 suicide bombing of a #32A bus in Jerusalem, in which 19 people were murdered and 74 were wounded

    The 4 August 2002 suicide bombing of #361 bus at Meron junction, in which nine people were murdered and 50 were wounded

    The 21 November 2002 suicide bombing of a #20 bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 50 were wounded

    The 5 March 2003 suicide bombing of a #37 bus in Haifa, in which 17 people were murdered and 53 were wounded

    The 17 May 2003 suicide bombing in Hebron, in which two people were murdered

    The 18 May 2003 suicide bombing of a #6 bus in Jerusalem, in which seven people were murdered and 20 wounded

    The 11 June 2003 suicide bombing of #14A bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and over 100 were wounded

    The 19 August 2003 suicide bombing of a #2 bus in Jerusalem, in which 23 people were murdered and over 130 were wounded

    The 9 September 2003 suicide bombing of a hitchhiking post near the IDF base at Tzrifin, in which nine soldiers were murdered and 10 were wounded

    The 9 September 2003 suicide bombing of a Jerusalem cafe, in which seven people were murdered and 70 were wounded

    The 29 January 2004 suicide bombing of a #19 bus in Jerusalem, in which 11 people were murdered and 44 were wounded

    The 14 March 2004 double suicide bombing at Ashdod port, in which 10 people were murdered and 16 were wounded.

    On Aug 31, 2004 16 people were killed and 100 wounded in two suicide bombings within minutes of each other on two Beersheba city buses, on route nos. 6 and 12.

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    Causasian, why would you want to take money from the Great Satan? Let Hamas figure out where Arafat hid all the money he stole over the years, then they won't need any aid from us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brewerpi
    Causasian, why would you want to take money from the Great Satan? Let Hamas figure out where Arafat hid all the money he stole over the years, then they won't need any aid from us.
    If they found all of that money, as well as all the money in the hands of men like Saeb Arakat, then they wouldn't need aid from anyone.

    Just a thought: start with Suha

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Funny, but it was a democratic elections in which Hamas won.
    Free elections don't make a democratic society nor does it mean that the society intends to progress towards democracy. The Palestinians have a lot to prove to the international community. Hamas is beyond help. They should be ignored until they are rendered powerless. There are other ways to help the Palestinians. Hamas is not the way.

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    Did I say if Hamas is a terrorist group or not, AIZ? I said this is democracy.

    Next time dont promote it, if you dont know the side effects of it.

    I knew this would happen, if democratic elections happened. It will happen in the whole Islamic world if elections happened. Extremists would take hold of power. That is the present condition of the Islamic world.

    Again I will say it, be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

    You cant have a democratic elections and then say these parties cant run.

    Its all hypocritical. When Chavez won in Venezula, many didnt support it, when Morales won in Bolivia many didnt support it, when Ahmadnejad won, many people didnt support it.

    You cant pick and choose who people can elect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    Just a thought: start with Suha
    Suha is a Mossad spy, I cleared that up before, with Rak_Ani.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    I understand your point, but how can we at war with terrorists, and support a terroristic government?
    Its a dilemma. So I guess you dont support democratic elections in the Palestinian areas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Suha is a Mossad spy, I cleared that up before, with Rak_Ani.
    And Arafat was a homosexual, what's your point?

    Every religious Muslim I know believes that each person they have something against is part of the Mossad.

  16. #16
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    Pipes on Hamas:

    "DANIEL PIPES, Director of the Middle East Forum: The Hamas victory will have the largest impact not in relations with Israel, where its goals and those of its predecessor Fatah resemble each other, but in two other arenas. Within the Palestinian Authority, Hamas will run a very different show from the anarchic, corrupt, sloppy dictatorship bequeathed by Yasser Arafat. Expect to see a far stricter, more religious, more disciplined order, with Fatah members, including Mahmoud Abbas, sidelined and probably repressed.

    Second, Arab Islamists have already achieved electoral success and takeover in Iraq, but Hamas represents the first Arab Islamist terrorist group to be legitimated through the ballot box. Comparable groups in countries such as Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco will watch and be encouraged, should there be any show of acceptance of Hamas by the U.S. and other governments."

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    And Arafat was a homosexual, what's your point?
    So is Sharon.

    Every religious Muslim I know believes that each person they have something against is part of the Mossad.
    Yeah its true. When I walk alone at night, I look back to see if a Mossad agent is following me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    Is it right for the US to with hold Aid from the Hamas Government?
    Sure. Any and all aid is a gift.

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    Hamas should look for self dependence, and ally with Arab and Muslim nations economically. Because right now people are blackmailing Hamas into doing what they want them to do. Palestinians are also too reliant on Israel.

    I heard that Hamas is going to try and wean of this dependence, and seek more trade and economic ties with Arab/Muslim nations. This would be a great move.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    So is Sharon.



    Yeah its true. When I walk alone at night, I look back to see if a Mossad agent is following me.
    Sharon is as hetero as they come. With Arafat there is proof he was gay...not that it matters. It didn't affect his leadership skills at all...he still sucked (no pun intended)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Yeah its true. When I walk alone at night, I look back to see if a Mossad agent is following me.
    I said, religious Muslims claim someone they don't like is Mossad...not that people look over their shoulders for Mossad.

    That is, when one isn't liked or they suspect someone of something...its Mossad

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Did I say if Hamas is a terrorist group or not, AIZ? I said this is democracy.

    Next time dont promote it, if you dont know the side effects of it.

    I knew this would happen, if democratic elections happened. It will happen in the whole Islamic world if elections happened. Extremists would take hold of power. That is the present condition of the Islamic world.

    Again I will say it, be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

    You cant have a democratic elections and then say these parties cant run.

    Its all hypocritical. When Chavez won in Venezula, many didnt support it, when Morales won in Bolivia many didnt support it, when Ahmadnejad won, many people didnt support it.

    You cant pick and choose who people can elect.
    Maybe not, but the US can pick and choose who we will support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Did I say if Hamas is a terrorist group or not, AIZ? I said this is democracy.
    No, C...it's not a democracy. A democracy is much, much more than 1 free election process. The elections were democratic...the socieity is far from it and with Hamas in power it is not going to be democratic

    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Next time dont promote it, if you dont know the side effects of it.
    Of course it will be promoted...its a system that allows freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    You cant have a democratic elections and then say these parties cant run.

    Its all hypocritical. When Chavez won in Venezula, many didnt support it, when Morales won in Bolivia many didnt support it, when Ahmadnejad won, many people didnt support it.
    C, no one is saying these people can't run. They are saying that, as democracies, they have the choice not to support those governments...elected or not. By the way, Chavez is ruining his country and Morales is a former Coco leaves farmer with absolutely no education...watch where these nations head...it's not a pretty path.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    You cant pick and choose who people can elect.
    Of course not, but you can pick and choose who to support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Hamas should look for self dependence, and ally with Arab and Muslim nations economically. Because right now people are blackmailing Hamas into doing what they want them to do. Palestinians are also too reliant on Israel.
    That's by their own choice. If it was up to us...we wouldn't support them one bit. I agree...they are way to reliant upon us...for money, electricity, water, and employment. They have Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon to look to for these things. It's not our responsibility. By the way, I wouldn't suggest them to look to Lebanon for help...they are the worst with the Palestinians.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    I heard that Hamas is going to try and wean of this dependence, and seek more trade and economic ties with Arab/Muslim nations. This would be a great move.
    I agree. Let the Arab states take care of them. Watch how happy that makes those Arab nations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIZ
    No, C...it's not a democracy. A democracy is much, much more than 1 free election process. The elections were democratic...the socieity is far from it and with Hamas in power it is not going to be democratic
    If a person you liked won, you would call it democracy. Its a slow process to democracy, like the US says about Iraq. This is a huge first step.

    By the way, Chavez is ruining his country and Morales is a former Coco leaves farmer with absolutely no education...watch where these nations head...it's not a pretty path.
    Well the same can be said about other countries. People say Bush is ruining his country and was a drunk with bad work ethic. It all depends on your point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    If a person you liked won, you would call it democracy. Its a slow process to democracy, like the US says about Iraq. This is a huge first step.
    No, if Fatah won, who I do not like, I would call it ONE SMALL STEP towards Democacy. Hamas is an entirely different animal. They only used this institution to garner power to reach a theocracy..that is their stated goal. I really don't understand what you don't get. Hamas is not democractic; it isn't their goal and that's why people want to stop the aid. They realize what is going to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Well the same can be said about other countries. People say Bush is ruining his country and was a drunk with bad work ethic. It all depends on your point of view.
    Its a terrible analogy, C. Bush, during is "fun days" was only hurting himself. I don't recall Bush inciting violence against others.

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    By the way C, you're openly defending a terror group that has taken the lives of not only Israeli women and children but also American, Canadian, and Korean lives. Might want to keep that in mind before you start advocating out loud.

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