I posted it in the workout forum. But Id like the input from the fellows in this forum aswell
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...84#post2154184
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I posted it in the workout forum. But Id like the input from the fellows in this forum aswell
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...84#post2154184
johan, loved your thread in the political forum on creationism not being a science. couldn't agree more. IMO , i don't want to start a debate with anyone else about this ever! i do understand the 2 day routine, i have had to do it to. first off 10 to 12 sets of max effort work may be to much. but if you are counting all your warm ups, it isn't that bad. neglecting dynamic/speed training is a mistake. you may want to do speed work after max effort, drop the percents even lower than the norm since you will already be fatigued from max effort work. i would do this and then one supplemental movement. i know this is not optimal but it is better than forgeting about speed work. stick to the core execises like you plan, alternateing squat and dead for max effort is a great idea. i wouldn't bother with the pause deads, or the bellow paralel squats after max effort squats. thats where i would throw in speed work. you can still do pause deads and the bellow parale squats, just do them with ligther weights and less rest time. teat them as if it was a dybamic day.
thanks bro :)
Should I do the usual 10 sets of speed reps after my me work or should I do less sets?
I count the warmups on the ME exercise so only 2 is to failure and not to many above 80%.
So it should look like this??
ME work
Speed work
Supplement exercise
abs
Or should I do something like
ME work
Speed work
sup exercise
another sup exercise
abs
ME work
Speed work
Supplement exercise
abs
i would try this first and see how u feel ,if you don't feel overtrained , add another supplemental.(if i was on gear i would do 2 supplemental moves)
speed work, not counting warm ups, for squats and deads 6- 8 set of 2(i don't listen to westsides method of training the dead only with singles, i believe they don't train the dead very well at all) and for press 8 sets of 3 reps. u may want to throw ur ab days on an off day. i do that just because wheni am done lifting i want to immediately leave the gym.my personal prefference. make sure you train lats one of the days, if not twice if you feel up to it or have the time.didn't seem like your routine had any back except the day you dead, which is every other wk. u can get away with traing the dead every other wk because you squat on the off wk when not deadlifting. you cant do that with lats because you dont have another movement that mimics or is close to the same movement working your lats. hope that helps
In my original plan I have lat work every ME upper body day as the last sup exercise.
I agree fully with westside training the deadlift poorly. They have some strong mother****ers for sure but for me to progress in the deadlift I have to deadlift. Gm's for instance doesnt seem to do much at all for me except back pain :lol:
Il do your suggestion and throw in the lats.
What rep and set range do you feel is good for the supp exercise? 3 sets and 5-6 reps or 4 sets and higher reps(10-12)??
besides chuck Volgepol, the west side deadlifters are mediocore at best. gmorn, do nothing for me at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
either rep scheme would work, i prefer sets between 8-12, 2-3 sets. if i keep the reps high i do 2 sets, lower reps, than i do more sets. i find doing to sets allows more time towork other movement, especially if you have limited time such as yourself, and you have to squeeze in lats,tris, and some bi's al in the same day.
let me know how it is working.
thanks bro.
I will tweak it around and se what I come up with. I want to deadlift 3times my bodyweight badly!! Dead is my favorite lift and the only lift where I am atleast semi strong.
if you like i can help with deadlifting. i have done 600lbs at 181lb dug free and raw. my first bit of advice, sop training westside, and watch your dead increase huge!
that would be great bro.
thats one hell of a deadlift :thumbsup: my best is 500ibs and 200 bodyweight.
what kind of routine did you follow to get the 600 at 181??
My main goal is to get my deadlift to 600 and my other goal is to get my phatetic bench(315) upp to around 400 atleast. I recon my squat will increase with the deadlift but right now I only squat 400.
the routine iused was a percentage based training based more on lower reps and many sets using light percentages. each wk you squat and dealift. deadlifting is the only thing that helps my deadlift move up. i focused alot of work on speed without using bands or chains. on squat day i would do jump squats, and on the deadlift day i would do olympic cleans both execises using 30-40% of my squat and dead maxes. also i used the leg press like a plyo swing. i would throw on light weight and would thrust the sled as hard and high as i could the catch it with my feet(basicaly launching the sled from my feet,hope that makes sense. )did all my reps at 3-5 reps and 3-5sets. decresing reps and sets as the regular program would get heavier. i didn't do lockouts ,gmorn, stifflegs. at the end of the dead workout i would f' around with the GHR or roman chair and grab a dumbell for mor resistance and do 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps. i can write up the percentages i used for trining if you like? i don't have the program with me rt now. i find for me with the dea, especilly training raw, that the best way to incrase strength is small pre set up jumps in weight wk to wk using multiple reps and not going in every other wk and pulling for a max single. now i pulled 600 at 181 raw and hen 650 at 198 equipped, BUT i still have trouble making more gains or keeping these numbers consistent. my dead max can vary as usch as 50 to 100lbs. the harder i work, the better it is, when i slack just a tiny,tiny bit, it really shows when i max.Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
also another help are plyometric box jumping. this can be used when going heavier or if you ar beat up. cleans and jump squats take a toll on the body after a while
johan, question, conventional or sumo?
I would love to se your whole routine with the %.
What is plyometric box jumping??
I always pull conventional. Sumo feels so acward to me. I used to pull sumo for a year or so but I didnt like it. You??
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
sumo for me! i was conventional for my begining years, but i kept throwing out my back and had no choice but to do sumo.
i wil get the percent and sets, give me a day or 2 to go through my program archives.
plto box jumping, really simple. louie and the west side boys use them . you get multiple height boxes,usually 12 inch 24 inch 36 inch and 42inch(for advanced training) and you jump from the floor up onto the box while bringing you legs up as close to your chin(as if you where squating land on the box in the squat position and quickly push yourself upwright(standing up from the squat position) i hope this make sense. you can do multiple sets of 3- 5reps, with a weight vest, or holding dumbells for more resistance if you please. also you can do bounding exercicses. you set up one of the higher boxes and you stand on a lower box. you jump from the lower box, hit the floor in the squat position, then jump as high as you can onto the higher box the same way i described in the first scenario. these are brutal, you can also reverse this around, jumping from a higher box to a lower box. they work very different. same idea as band presses and reverse band presses. does that help?
yeah I get the picture I think:) unfortunaly my gym doesnt have any different boxes and I dont think I can jump into a bench that way lol. Il have to figure something out.
I have just decided btw to get off a pretty long cycle so Im gonna have to tweak a routine to maintain while getting everything back on track. What do you suggest for that?
honestly that is a tough question. ther is no perfect program for coming off any cycle, especially a long one. maybe my percentageprogram would be beneficial for keeping your gains and regulating how heavy you wil go from wk to wk, that may help. everytime i end off a long cylce, i usually do a light version of the 3 by3 or german block training. are you familiar with this type of training?Quote:
Originally Posted by johan
I have read some about the german training but never given it a try. Isnt it alot of volume??
the 3*3 is that the routine with deads, squats, bench each workout and 3 workouts a week?
both are the same name. let me see if i can find it
The training program presented here has been used by some of the strongest German powerlifters including IPF Junior World Champions Ralf Gierz and Michael Bruegger. Gierz totaled close to 2200 lbs. at superheavyweight and Bruegger was the first German powerlifter to break the 2200 lb. barrier at a bodyweight of 26O lbs. Bruegger was also the first German to bench over 600 lbs. in an IPF competition (paused and no bench shirt). The basic concepts of this program have been used by almost every Olympic lifter, including many world champions over the last 40 years.
The 3x3 system is an eight week training cycle that consists of two phases. Phase I is a high volume phase, while Phase II is the competition phase. It shares some similarities with the Louie Simmons style of training program. The similarities include no off-season, training percentages in the 58-64 percent range and the main focus of the 3x3 is its high volume phase. Another similarity is very few of the 3x3 training lifts are in the percentage range of 80-95 percent.
The one thing making the 3x3 unique when compared to Simmons and other current powerlifting training is that the only training exercises used are the competition lifts. There is no assistance work! Why is that? The answer is very simple. In order to get strong in the squat you need to train the quadriceps, hamstrings, glutes, hip flexors and the lower back. In other programs there are different ways in which to train all these muscles. You can perform a variety of assistance exercises or you can combine the squat with these same assistance exercises. The other option is to train the squat and only the squat. We already know this exercise works all the muscles mentioned above. The major advantage of this option is the squat works the muscles exactly the way they are needed for the competition.
As I mentioned earlier this type of training approach has been used for decades by the Eastern Bloc and Western European Olympic lifters and it works. During the last 10 years I have had the opportunity to talk to and train with many Olympic lifters. In 1992 1 was stationed at the Olympic Training Center while doing my assignment with the German Army. I observed that their training consists of only the competition lifts, the snatch and clean and jerk. Some of you might say that Olympic lifters do a variety of pulls including pulls from a block, high pulls from the hang position, etc. If you take a closer look at these exercises you will see that they are biomechanically identical to a certain portion of the competition lifts. The only difference is that they are not performed through the full range of motion of the competition lift. This will definitely overload the muscles. This is a technique that is very effective if you do it right. Unfortunately I see many powerlifters doing it wrong. They do hack squats, leg presses and leg extensions - exercises that have no bio-mechanical relationship to the competition lift. Leg pressing a 1000 lbs. does not mean that you can squat that weight. Do you see the difference? These exercises do have their place in a training program, but only to rehabilitate from injuries or to create variety once in a while, but not in a serious training cycle.
The 3x3 system works so well because your muscles will be stimulated much more than with other routines. Let’s take the squat again to explain this fact. For example, if your squat maximum is 700 pounds and your training schedule calls for 5 sets of 5 reps once a week you will achieve a fairly high volume com-pared to other training programs. When 75% of 700 pounds (525 pounds) is done for 25 reps (5 x 5) you end up with a total squat tonnage of 13125 pounds per week. This tonnage is determined by the work sets only and not the warm up sets (this is the standard approach in the 3x3 program). Now take a look at the total squat tonnage of the 3x3 system. In week four you use 64% of 700 lbs. which is 448 pounds for a maximum of 40 reps (8 sets of 5 reps). The total tonnage of only one workout is 17920 pounds. You repeat this workout twice and you end up with a total squat tonnage of 35840 pounds per week. That is over two and a half times the volume of the other program. The 3x3 system creates a workload stimulus that forces the muscles to work much harder and therefore to grow faster and get stronger.
Preparations: Before you start with the 3x3 system you need to find your current maximum in each of the three lifts. There are many ways to find this out and it’s up to you which one you choose. You can use your last competition lifts if the competition was recent (within the last 4 weeks). You can also go for a maximum single in the gym (important: use all the equipment you usually wear in competition). If you estimate your max based on reps you can use a variety of equations. A simple one is the Epley equation. In the Epley, you multiply the reps achieved by .033 and multiply the product of this times the weight used. Add the resulting product to the weight used and you have your max. Remember it does not make sense to choose weights that you cannot handle.
Once you have found your current maximum you can calcu-late your training weights for the next eight weeks. I will give you a more detailed explanation of this in future articles. However, before your start the program you will be asked to increase your current maximum in the squat by 25 lbs., the bench press by 10 lbs. and the deadlift by 15 lbs. This will be your new projected maximum and it will be this number that you will base your training. The training weights will be 58-64 percent of this projected maximum in phase I and 60-95 percent in phase II.
Phase I- Weeks 1-4 - High Volume Phase: By doing a lot of sets and reps you will reach a high volume during phase I. This set and rep scheme builds muscle mass, strength and helps to improve your coordination and technique on each of the competition lifts.
Summary: Phase I Day l
squat: 5-8x5
bench: 6-8x6
deadlift: 5-8x5 Day 2
squat: 5-8x5
bench: 6-8x6
deadlift: 5-8x5 Day 3
squat: 5-8x5
bench: 6-8x6
deadlift: 5-8x5
The total number of workouts in phase I is 12. This is three workouts per week. Make sure to rest one day between the workouts and rest two days after the completion of one training week. I used to work out on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. With this approach I had two days off on the weekend which really helped me to recuperate.
You will squat, bench and deadlift in every workout. Yes - you squat, bench and deadlift three times a week. That’s too much? How do you know? Have you ever tried it? You will not be doing any assistance work, which means that you have all your energy available for the three competition lifts. By the way, I’ve worked with Olympic lifters and they train the squat six times a week. They break it down to four front squat sessions and two back squat sessions. In these workouts they used some heavy poundages. If these lifters were overtrained it is of no consequence because they won a bronze and a silver medal in the superheavyweight category at the 1988 Olympic Games in Seoul.
The sets and reps are the same in every workout. Five to eight sets of five reps for the squat and deadlift and six to eight sets of six reps for the bench press.
You work with four different percentages during phase I, but you stay with one percentage for each training week. This means you will use a particular weight for each exercise and work with it for three workouts or one training week. The next week of training will have you using a higher percentage and therefore a higher weight. That way you increase the weights every week. Make sure to use no equipment, except a power-lifting belt.
Phase II - Week 5-8 - Competition Phase: During phase II you will reduce the volume dramatically and increase the intensity week by week. This helps you to adapt to the heavier weights. You will use powerlifting equipment (suit, belt, wraps, and bench shirt) for every heavy lift (1-2 reps). The intention of phase II is to build power, maximum strength and improve your technique with heavy weight.
As in phase I, the total number of workouts in phase Ills 12. There are also three workouts per week. Make sure to get plenty of rest between the workouts. You will still squat, bench and deadlift in every workout. The sets and reps in the daily workouts will vary. Each exercise is divided in two parts:
Technique and power training. You will be performing three sets of three reps for the squat and deadlift and five sets of four reps for the bench press. The training weight is 60 percent of your projected maximum and it and it will be con-stant for the next four weeks.
Maximum strength training. You will use 80-95 percent of your calculated maximum for one to two sets of one rep for each exercise. Train maximum strength on only one exercise per day. I used to max out as follows: deadlift on Monday (day 1), bench press on Wednesday (day 2) and squat on Friday (day 3).
Summary: Phase II Day l
squat: 3x3
bench: 5x4
deadlift: 1-2x1 Day 2
squat: 3x3
bench: 1-2x1
deadlift: 3x3 Day 3
squat: 1-2x1
bench: 5x4
deadlift: 3x3
While the percentages for the technique training will be constant, the percentages for the maximum strength training will be increased weekly by five percent.
i have modified this program to two days a wk. also i have used bands,chains, board presses,partial squats and deads in this program as well with great sucess in all 3 lifts. if you use bands or chaims drop the percentages. boards and partials higher percentages
that sounds very interesting, Il defenetly give it a try. Thanks alot bro.
If I do it twice a week instead of 3 times a week should I just ditch "day 3".
btw how long should this kind of program be run?