After Going From Flat Benching To Speed...

my chest has been sore. In a good way. But i almost feel liek my pecs are getting a better workout then when i was heavy flat benching. My ME day is the same , and i dont seem to be so beat up on that day as well. So i am feeling a little better off the boards as well. This is 4 weeks of doing westside 100% and so far i feel good with it. I am sure my raw bench is down, maybe more on the reps then weight but if your not hittin higher reps regularly your endurance tends to drop a bit. Of course it does that when i am doing triples in under for a few weeks.

My first week on speed day i worked with
225 with green bands choked down for

225 x 3 with greens
275 x 3 with greens
315 x 3 with greens

noticed i could be faster i stayed with 225 and greens on all sets 2nd week

3rd week 225 no bands

4th week
185 with green bands double looped. Then hit a 405 single to see if my pec has healed, then hit 315 x 10

I know its supposed to be 50% of a max. But consdieringf i am new to speed work and my comp max is 600, 300 was to slow in my opinion. I will work up to it. So i just do what Halbert does and use light weight at the bottom and have over 300 at lockout. I figure with 225 and green bands i should have 245 on chest and 300 plus at lockout. I seen he uses less weight and more bands. When i get faster i will up the bands first then the weight. And these are fast, for me. Any ideas for speed work. I need them??

Thanks for the invite Jay. I'm here now.

You are definately gonna want to get some chains. They allow you to keep accomadating resistance without over doing it. Also you might want to get some minis.

Let me know if you want to get some chains. I'm talking with a guy that is offering used at 2 bucks per foot, which is a third of what toppers gets.

Have you seen any of the Westside videos. When they talk about speed it's relative to there competition benches. They don't really move the bar that fast. In the Reactive, which is the newest, they are moving it faster but still not lightning fast.

Most of the guys in your class that train in the videos are using 245 and two chains. When they switch to bands they are using 225 and a doubled mini.

Hope this helps

hey pljay....

now i can hound you over here about speedwork.

i just got done with the halbert video.

here's the low down on beginning bands training


1 rep max (with shirt) * 60% = training weight total (twt)
40% * twt = band tension total (btt)
twt - btt = raw weight total (rwt)

SO ... real world example

600 bench

600 * 60% = 360lbs twt
360 * 40% = 144lbs band tension
360 - 144 = 216lbs raw weight


1 pair mini band (doubled) = ~60lbs tension at top
1 pair mini band (choked) = ~25 - 30 tension at top

so training weight would be

215 raw weight + 2 pair doubled mini-bands + 1 pair minis (choked)

/irish

Thanks big okie and Irish. That actually cleared up a bit. I have no videos and really had no clue of exact percentages.

Okie i would like to see about some chains. Let nme talk with Jimmie dean about it and see what he has going in that department.

Irish so i need more tension then the green bands at top right? Whats the difference between greens and having two smaller ones. Or what about 200 lbs and blues? I am in the dark on the why. KNow what i mean? I may just need to get some more bands. Thanks guys what else you got for me!!

irish...have u hit more than 2 bands doubled on the bench before?

good post Irish........:D also how long are you staying on the bands before you go to chains??

I do not think anything other than mini's are suggested for dynamic work.

Taken from the Jump Stretch Website:
Mini Band: 1/2" band delivers 25 pounds of resistance when stretched to 6'

Light Band: 1 1/8" band offers 50 pounds of resistance when stretched to 6' level. for taller athletes and beginners

Average Band: 1 3/4" band offers 75 pounds of resistance. Recommended for shorter athletes and advanced lifters.

Strong Band: 2 1/2" band offers 100 lbs of resistance at 6 foot

This is the Dynamic BP training of a fairly well known Westside Member, who has done 575@shw in the bench, after a 1000lb squat. FYI: He trains with George and Kenny on Dynamic Days:

Speed Bench(done w/mini blues) 95x10, 135x5, 185x3, 225x3x3sets(outer part of hand touching the ring), 245x3x3sets(middle finger on the ring), 265x3x3sets(competition grip, pausing each rep)

Slight incline press w/60lb dbs(palms facing in) x20, x20, x15 (30second rest between sets)

Lockout work w/purple band 3sets of 12

Front plate raise 3sets of 10

Chest supported rows 145x15, 190 x15x 3sets

Standing crunches


Notice how low percentage of bar weight he is using?

Ermantroudt

i know what your saying Ermantroudt,.....there are some that have been using them though.i have not had much success with the chains flopping aroung on speed day,but never know till ya' ask:D

RCK:
I as looking at PL Jay using 315 and the green bands for dynamic work, and I was thinking it might be too much of a weight+band combo for use on Dynamic Day.

I alternate the use chains & Mini's for dyanmic work in three week cycles, with a static bar load.

Ermantroudt

Hey Jay. Nice place here.

I have heard that you want to get your 3 reps done in under 3 seconds. On the videos they are not even close to that, though. I personally can only get under 3 seconds when just going with raw weight.

When I use bands, I am just under 4 seconds, but when I strip the bands off, and go back to just bar weight, I am two tenths faster than my earlier attempts with the same bar weight. I taped my workout last night and got a stopwatch out when watching the tape. That is why I know these things.

I use 135 plus doubled minis for 6 triples, then 185 plus one mini for 8 triples, then 225 plus chains for 10 triples. I guarantee the 225 with chains is an easier workout, and the bar moves faster than either of the other two workouts.

I used to tie green bands together and ran them under the bench and around both outside portions of the bar, this to me seems about equivilent to one doubled mini. My minis are freaking strong, but they are new. I am sure they will stretch out later, but right now the most I can get raw is about 225 with 2 doubled minis per side. That was a tough lockout too.

B.:lift: :lift:

Hey bench thanks for coming. I am trying to get 3 second from it.

Ermantroudt i am very wery on speed bench. This is my first time going at with all my efforts to do it right. I did 315 cause i bench 600 and thought i needed 300 ish on my chest. But i felt better and faster with 225 and green bands. I actually liked 185 and doubled greens. But i may try what Irish said and use 215 and bands. Happy middle.

Do you guys catch the weight off your chest or do you touch the chest and ram it back up?

bench, thats a lot of sets... 24 speed bench sets???
The only problem i found w/ going for under 3 seconds, is the lowering portion of the lift. Some people lower slower than others, so or some people getting under 3 is damn near impossible.

Quote:

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Originally posted by deciever
bench, thats a lot of sets... 24 speed bench sets???
The only problem i found w/ going for under 3 seconds, is the lowering portion of the lift. Some people lower slower than others, so or some people getting under 3 is damn near impossible.

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That is 3 different weeks. I do one week with 2 doubled minis, then one week with one doubled mini, then one week with chains.

I am nowhere near man enough to do 24 sets.

B.

Jay-when I do my speed work I go down as fast as I can, under control, and just barely touch my chest and blow it back up. I have seen a pretty decent carry over on my ME days so far. Not as much so on the board presses but more on the full range movements. But I am only using 150-160lbs with no bands or chains on. I too feel a different kind of sorness from doing this then when I was doing raw benching. I am not as sore from doing speed as I was when I did raw weight and I dont stay sore near as long either. Its not really like a sorness its kinda weird.
It feels more like a tingling sensation throughout my whole pec when I move my arms in a way that flex my chest. I never had that feeling before when just raw benching. I dont know if its the fast twitch muscle fibers way of telling me they are getting worked or what.

how fast do you lower the bar? Sometimes i lower it almost balistacally, about as fast as i can. what about you guys?

Deceiver, I just lower it as fast as I can. I have seen the videos and when they talk about dropping the bar and catching it balisticly, then it looks to me like about the same speed as I am bringing the bar down.

I don't know how you can get 3 reps in under 3 seconds without bringing it down pretty darn fast. Faster it comes down, the faster it goes up.

I go as fast as my elbows will allow. If I go too fast, they hurt, and not in that good kind of hurt way.

B.

alright, just making sure im doin them right.

I am bringing it down pretty fast but i touch n slam back up. I sem to be more focused on the way up then down. Man i dont knwo if i wanna catch the weight. Ouch!

I just did DE bench tonight with the light bands anchored around dumbells. A lot of tension for me because I was used to the mini's from my last two previous workouts.

I used 135 bar weight and it seemed close to as hard as 205 with mini's what I usually do, definately the tension needs a few warm up sets of getting used to.

I do 9 sets with the mini's each worout. I dont get much shoulder soreness and neither do my training partners. Each 3 rep set is right about 3 seconds too.

I dont have chains but do you fellas think its ok to use the bands (mini's and or light bands) for DE bench every week?

I know Westside says to cycle the bands out every 3 DE workouts but what if your shoulders are fine and can recover for ME day 4 days later-stick with the bands?

Superman75, you can use the bands every week or alternate with raw weight. The most important part is to listen to your body, you should be able to tell when your doing too much. Even Halbert came out and said sometimes he has to stop with the bands for a little while.

PLjay, when I do Dyn Benches I go as fast as I can. I also do them ballistically. By that I mean I actually pull the bar down and catch it a couple inches off my chest then blow up as fast as possible. I definately think that if most people would drop there speed weight they would make more progress. I really like the formula Irish talked about off of the Halbert video. But I also really like to use chains some too. I think the best would be one week of each alternated.

I also think that the ballistic benching is very hard on my joints, especially my elbows. I think that this is responsible for some of my pains. But I also feel that when I do a lot of speed work my bench gets better. One thing that I do when doing Dyn is to not lockout the bench at the top. It just seems to keep a little stress off my elbows. After reading I think that wearing elbow sleeves will cure some of this.

I always get mine done under 3 seconds. In the older videos they don't get them as quick as 3 seconds. But in the Reactive they are doing 245 with 2 chains and almost all of them get them done in under 3 seconds.

Hope this rambling helps

Jay i know that a lot of guys that bench around what you do do not use 50% as their speed work. Some of them will work with 225 and a mini adding five or ten punds every set. some do three sets with 225 and one mini , the next three sets with 225 and two minnis , and then like 250 and two minis.
I thnk that 300 is to much weight to be using balistically with the bands. Advanced people should only be using 45% anyway. mBut you have to listen to your body. I know you used to say that they beat you up alot so be careful. Also It is VERY important that you switch off of bands after evey two or three weeks or else it could cause elbow and shoukder problems. Concider chains or just a little heavier raw weight every third week or so..
The reason that minis are used instead of greens is that they have tension on them the entire range of motion wher if you choke the greens they slack at the bootom and are not as effective. Iknow you are a strong SOB but don't let your ego take over.
Hope this helps and i think Big OKie was right as well

As far as the Halbert video the man uses bands every week, even the other westside guys think he's crazy but it works for him though not a good idea for the average or even above average Joe, This is why Dave Tate will not sell it on his site.

I attended the westside seminar last weekend and Dave tate did his speed work with 205 a green band and 2 or 3 sets of chain and Dave is a 600lb bencher. PLJAY if you thought the 315 was too slow lower your bar weight it's a speed day so going back to the 225 was a smart call on your part.
Just my .02

xxxl83