Changing my bench routine!

[powerlifterjay]

It is unfortunate that i must do this, but i am. My shoulder is tricky. It has been majorly hurt over the last year and half. Thing is i keep pounding and sometimes its dulled enough to lift without major pains and i get by. But my progress is moving to slowly. I did 585 in Aug 2001 and 625 last month. Thats not much. When i did 585 i had come close it the gym with 635. So really i am about where i was.

With that said, my goal is to get 100%. My shirts caused two out of three (and most serious) shoulder injuries. IN june i switched 100% to westside. And even though i messed with it before, this time i got convienced that it WORKS! No one can deny that it works. If ti didnt you didnt do it right or didnt put in enough effort. I dotn know, but i know it works.

Where heavy flat benching aggrevated my last injury (rotator) speed didnt aggrevate this. But since June my tendon problem is effected by speed. But not so much on flat benching. Is that a catch 22?!! Here is what i am thinking for a temporary routine just till i heal up.

Week 1 Mon no speed, but heavy tris (no bench movements), extensions, overheads, Etc. Then blast delts.

Thurs i shirt up and do reps of 1 to 3. NOt maxin but close to it. Basically ME work with my shirt. Use boards and sometimes none

Week2 speed work , tris Basically the same as now.

Thurs i do Me work on boards, floors Etc. Same as now.

So basicaly one week is the same as it is now, the next shirt work only but nothign else pressing wise. The change may be sometimes instead of speed i may do sets of 5 on the floor or flat bench. No singles though. All other work Squat, and deadlift work stays the same.

What do ya'll think? Any ideas or combos of training is somthign i am game to hear. So please let your opinions flow!!

[k1401]

Jay, what ever works bro! You gotta keep healthy, that's the first thing
keep us informed on your progress, you are trying a lot of new things and exploring areas that we should all be able to learn from!

[ironmaiden181]

PLjay, You have to listen to your body.... As we talked about this weekend.. My shoulder use to kill me... I can't even do any incline movement... unless i use the dumbells so that I can hold them different to take off the pressure.... I did stumble on to something however... the last 2 meets that I have done, I lighten my weight alot. I usually do 40% (120) of my max on speed day and it does make my shoulder tender, but when I lighten the weight(95 then 45 the last week) 3 weeks be for it didn't hurt at all come comp. time!!! Just something that might help!! everyone is different though!!

[powerlifterjay]

Actually i use some pretty light weight. My problem is the way ido speed. Not only do i push the bar as fast as i possibly can. I literally pull it down as fast as i can. I think its the reversal that hurts. I mean i could slow down some. But then why do speed? I think i will take it week by week and on days there is no pain , or little pain i take advantage of it. Others just work around it. But this isn tthat serious it will heal. Tomorrow wil be my first bench day back in a couple weeks so we'll see.

[musc2002pa]

Jay, I think that sounds pretty good. I myself am having to work around a shoulder injury.

Speed bench is hell on the shoulders. You are right about the reversal, thats the worst part. One solution is to do a short pause inbetween speed reps. To me the most important part of the list is the concentric. I know Louie talks about getting the reversal part down, but in a contest, will still have to pause the bar, right? I am in no way challenging Louies theory, but I think speed bench every other week is a great idea for guys with shoulder injuries.

The shirt every other week is a great idea too. Kind of like the Metal Militia guys, but they are at it everyweek. You mentioned just doing the shirt work on that day. I think it would be a good idea to hit the tris, and back. Not heavy, but light. At your level, I don't think it would hurt you.

What you have proposed is a more or less 'modified' Westside routine that I am seeing a lot. In fact, I am sort of migrating into it. There is no doubt that Westside works. Louie always advocates tayloring the system to fit you. I think thats what you are doing here.

I feel kind of weird giving advice to a guy that benches over 100lbs more than me, haha. Keep us updated on how this works out. By the way, when do you compete again?

[powerlifterjay]

Thanks Chad yoru input is important. Shit who cares who benches what. Your very educated in this sport, and just cause one lifts more doesntmean he knows more.

But on my shirt day i will do a full workout. Tri after wards. What i meant by nothing else is that week. I will not press anything on Monday. Where normally i am DE Bench on MOnday, and ME bench on Thurs The week with the shirt i train monday but just do triceps and delts. But i guess the difference is i wont bench anything.

My shoulder now doesnt really hurt on seated militaries or inclines as much as flat benching. So if i do decide to do a flat bench movement it will be light in reps of 5 or so.

I am modifing westside to my needs. BUt i actually think it woudl work for anyone. Hell you cant get to much shirt work.

[Ermantroudt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by powerlifterjay
"I mean i could slow down some. But then why do speed?"

There are several other Pler's, including myself, who have started to pause the DE work with fantastic results. It allows for better joint health, and helps to pertfect form. One of the first people I read about doing this was JM, and since then I have had the opportunity to discuss with other lifters from Ohio, who asked not to be named, who are doing this with a great deal of sucess too.

Ermantroudt

[powerlifterjay]

That might be something to consider. What speed do you lower it? Just a moderate descent? Then slam it up fast? Shit thats how i raw bench anyway. Either way its good to knwo others have had to slow down too.

[Ermantroudt]

"What speed do you lower it? Just a moderate descent? Then slam it up fast?"

Bring it down under control, short pasue, then bust its ass on the way up!

Ermantroudt

[Cubanito17]

JAY the routine sounds good but the only way to really know if it works for you is too try it. NOW do you wanna try something like this before your DEC meet. I mean I wanna see you hit something BIG. And remember I think your bench bash for cash is coming up so you don't wanna play round to much with routine. BUT as long as you hit over 600 then I guess it's alright.

Keep us informed with workouts on days and then how your shoulder is hurtin if this works for ya bro I might try it to prevent shoulder injury in the future.

ERman i think i'll try pause reps today for DE day. do you pause all setsX reps, like every lift?!?

[musc2002pa]

Jay, I usually do my speed benches with a slight pause now. The decent is moderate speed. A quick pause, then explode the shit out of it. I can do 3 reps in around 4.5-5 seconds. Here is a video

speed bench paused reps as opposed to regular speed bench

[powerlifterjay]

Thats how i thought it would look. I guess you all have had the same issues going through your heads too. Well i feel better knowing that i am not alone.

Do you think that style of speed work is as effective as balistic benching? I personally thought the whole reason behind speed work was to build up reversal strength and storing kenetic energy Blah , bah, blah!!

Cubanito i am not doing the bench bash for cash. I wish i coudl get down to 220lbs cause i seen the line up and since Waterman is hurt i dont see anyone who would be cause to worry. It looks like there are no 600lb plus benchers in it. Oh well thast 3500 bucks out the window!! Next year!!

[k1401]

jay 3500 bucks! what the fu*k? what do you weigh now? and how much time, you could do it bro, you probably don't need the money but shit I'd go for it if I could

[Ermantroudt]

"Erman i think i'll try pause reps today for DE day. do you pause all setsX reps, like every lift?!?"

I do not pause the warm-up's, and as the sets wear on, the pause might get a bit shorter on the second and third reps.

Ermantroudt

[Cubanito17]

JAY listen bro 3500 is a bit of money for a meet to just drop weight. AND YOU KNOW you can do it.

UNLESS the most important thing to you is getting bigger numbers.

BUT weren't you the one that told me if you can be big and then hit big numbers when you cut down your numbers will drop SOME and then you gain weight again and hit tha numbers you were and keep progressing.

[bigokie]

Hey Jay, just sent you an email.

A couple thoughts, you could try pausing if you want. You could also start letting the bar drop by itself, don't pull it down. This is what I had to do before switching training. Pulling the bar down let me do the reps fast as hell, but it took it's toll on my elbows and that combined with squatting hurt. So I started letting the bar come down by itself, then reversing and blowing up. No pause. I like this way, but it may not work for all.

Also, on a couple of peoples recommendations I started wearing elbow sleeves when I did them, this also helped a lot. Plus the absorbine really helped, too.

Just a couple thoughts for you

[powerlifterjay]

Well first off i cant drop. I dont wanna right now. I am not 100% so with a weight loss i would feel horrible. I am 253 right now. 220 seems so far away. Last year was tough as enough. I will do it next year for sure.

I trained mOnday night and the pain is still there. Not unbarable but i also stayed under 405 so going that light its hard to tell how it really feels. I am just gonna go light for a bit and do 4 and 5 brd to keep my lockout kinda strong. BUt tiem will tell. I would cut my nuts off to be 100% again!!

[Cubanito17]

WELL sorry to hear that, I don't know bout cutting the nuts part off I mean it'll make your package look bigger but, WE're not goin there.

Sorry dude I forgot bout your injuries. So are you going 242 or 275 for your next meets.

[powerlifterjay]

LOL!! That might have been extreme!

[Quest]

I have been following this post about pausing at the bottom
and then exploding through the bar..
Would it not be beneficial to use bands (just bands) instead of weights to do DE days.
You would have to use less force to pull the bar down and the tension would become less as you lowered the bar You would only have to stop the bar weight at the bottom and then have to use more force to keep the bar moving at the same speed through the top of the moment.

[powerlifterjay]

I think what i will do iw do my speed the same and thats 185 plus 150 lb band tension. This time with a pause.

[Cubanito17]

so are you not gonna do the workout u posted above now and stick with speed with slight pause from now on???