Need help with pathetic lifts

**redrum86** · 06-21-2014, 01:45 PM

Hello all. I just started lifting for the first time in my life April 21, 2014. I am a 28 year old male at 6'2 250lbs. I lead a sedentary life and decided to make a change. I decided to do Starting Strength and love it. Having no idea it was a powerlifting, I decided that's what I want to do because I really enjoy the lifts. My goals were to loose fat and gain strength and muscle. I have my diet in check and am eating on a 20% restriction and I know thats a no no in PL. This is probably why I am having problems as my lifts are pathetic and I feel like a wuss although I feel stronger than I ever have.

When I started the program on April 21st, following it to a "T", my lifts were as follows:
Squats-75lbs
Overhead press-65lbs
Bench-115lbs
Deads- 95lbs

I completed 8 weeks on June 13th and my lifts are still going up except the overhead press that I had to reset at 100lbs. They are as follows:
Squats-162.5lbs
OP-100lbs
Bench 165lbs
Deads-232.5lbs

Now compared to when I started, I had decent increases but overall, the weights are PATHETIC and I am somewhat embarrassed because I feel someone my size should be lifting double what I am now even though I am completely new at training.
Aside from having hip pain from impingement, I am pain free but the hip pain might be impeding somewhat.

Can anyone offer me any advice that will help increase my weights? I am starting to struggle and the bar is slowing down more and more as I add weights every time I train.
Also, would anyone know of any PL gyms in the nyc area, preferably queens that can help me train?
Thanks in advance guys.

**Times Roman** · 06-21-2014, 01:59 PM

This is just me, but if I were to have never lifted in my life before, I'd ease on into this thing by getting my diet right and then doing the cardio (this will strengthen your heart so it won't bust when you attempt to lift heavy). After a couple of months, then gradually get into strength training. Powerlifting is advanced, with all the heavy weights.....

...you have to learn to crawl before you can run!

Good luck!
---Roman

**redrum86** · 06-21-2014, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

This is just me, but if I were to have never lifted in my life before, I'd ease on into this thing by getting my diet right and then doing the cardio (this will strengthen your heart so it won't bust when you attempt to lift heavy). After a couple of months, then gradually get into strength training. Powerlifting is advanced, with all the heavy weights.....

...you have to learn to crawl before you can run!

Good luck!
---Roman

Thanks for the reply. I have my diet on track am am currently eating whole foods. I was doing cardio for a few months before starting training. My apologies, I should have mentioned this above.

**Times Roman** · 06-21-2014, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by redrum86

Thanks for the reply. I have my diet on track am am currently eating whole foods. I was doing cardio for a few months before starting training. My apologies, I should have mentioned this above.

then you will just have to be patient on the incremental increases to the weight you lift.

there are a few things going with you internally, all necessary to be a power lifter

1) increases in bone density - this can take a few years
2) increases in connective tissue strength - (tendons/ligaments) - this can take a few years too
3) muscular strength - of the three, this is the fastest responder, which is why all the injuries in the gym you see with the newbs. muscular strength improves pretty fast the first six months in the gym, and the connective tissue can't keep up. This becomes more apparent with older bulls, and newbs on steroids .

**redrum86** · 06-21-2014, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

then you will just have to be patient on the incremental increases to the weight you lift.

there are a few things going with you internally, all necessary to be a power lifter

1) increases in bone density - this can take a few years
2) increases in connective tissue strength - (tendons/ligaments) - this can take a few years too
3) muscular strength - of the three, this is the fastest responder, which is why all the injuries in the gym you see with the newbs. muscular strength improves pretty fast the first six months in the gym, and the connective tissue can't keep up. This becomes more apparent with older bulls, and newbs on steroids.

How do lifters break through when they stall and can't lift past a certain weight? I imagine I will be stalling within the next two weeks. I have been going up 2.5 pounds every workout and I train 3 days a week.

**Times Roman** · 06-21-2014, 03:52 PM

You will see your biggest and best improvements in the first six months.

There will be MANY times you will stall and can't lift past a certain weight. This is the mental discipline part. It's not like car mechanics where you can just slap on a bigger carburetor.

Tips:
Make sure you are eating enough calories and protein EVERYDAY.

PM me if you want the calculator so you can track your eating progress.

As your LBM improves, your caloric requirement will need adjustment.

For now, focus on perfect form in the gym, make double sure you are eating the RIGHT way. Having a "diet in check" means nothing to me. Everyone says that. And a 20% caloric restriction will make you weak. Maybe you should slow down on the restriction for now, if you are worried about not strengthening quickly enough.

But you are doing this out both sides of your mouth.

You want to lose BF% so you are restricting your calories, yet you are concerned that you are not strengthening quickly enough, which is a symptom of not eating enough.

Decision time.....

**Chicagotarsier** · 06-23-2014, 06:07 AM

Stalling or plateau usually changes to GVT lifting.

1 RM charts show how many reps you should be able to do at 90-80-70-60- etc etc of your 1 rep max.

Moving to a 10x10 program at 60% of your 1 RM develops the mass and form needed to move past your plateau. Has been used over 60 years documented.

Each lift day do one focus 10x10 exercise. Has to be complex motion. I do Military Press Monday and Thursday, Bench Tuesday and Friday (20% incline).

Each lift day has a support muscle with complex motion that I work 10x10. This exercise is used to "warm up" and is performed before your primary exercise. I do Long Bar curls on Monday and Hammer inclined curls on Thursday. Tuesday and FridayCable Tricep extension bar.

Generally they reccomend a third exercise 4 sets at 6 reps of a support group. I do a third exercise at 10x10 on lift days...Monday and Thursday Cable Pulldowns (Back)....Tuesday and Friday Front Upright Rows.

On Thursday and Friday I do a fourth exercise 3 sets of 10 (squats and cable flys)

I plateaued on 5x5 for bench and Military. I worked 10x10 now for a month. My bench increased 14% 1 RM. My Military I do not max on but can now rep out 12 where my max rep was 5.

^^^^^ Yes to what Roman said. You cannot do two things at once. You cannot bulk and cut in one cycle. You can grow but not do the max of each. In trying to do two things at once you are limiting your focused returns. You CAN cut and gain strength + mass while on cycle while focusing on cutting. This is the miracle of Testosterone .

**redrum86** · 06-23-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

You will see your biggest and best improvements in the first six months.

There will be MANY times you will stall and can't lift past a certain weight. This is the mental discipline part. It's not like car mechanics where you can just slap on a bigger carburetor.

Tips:
Make sure you are eating enough calories and protein EVERYDAY.

PM me if you want the calculator so you can track your eating progress.

As your LBM improves, your caloric requirement will need adjustment.

For now, focus on perfect form in the gym, make double sure you are eating the RIGHT way. Having a "diet in check" means nothing to me. Everyone says that. And a 20% caloric restriction will make you weak. Maybe you should slow down on the restriction for now, if you are worried about not strengthening quickly enough.

But you are doing this out both sides of your mouth.

You want to lose BF% so you are restricting your calories, yet you are concerned that you are not strengthening quickly enough, which is a symptom of not eating enough.

Decision time.....

I don't understand how it can be mental. My legs are shaking like mad what squatting and feel like they are going to give out doing squats within the next few weeks. Seems physical to me.
I see success stories all the time of obese people dieting and lifting weights transforming their bodies completely. They are obviously restricting their caloric intake while training. How does this work for them? I know I need to eat to get stronger but I honestly didn't think i'd stall this soon. I just started.
If my main goal is to lose fat right now while preserving muscle, what should I do to loose the fat?

I am going to enclose before and after pics. Would you or anyone be able to perhaps estimate my before and after BF%?

This was me before:
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

And this is me now:
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Will I ever be able to get rid of that loose pouch of jiggly fat on my stomach? I remember it being there my whole life. Something tells me I will have to get a six pack or that pouch will be there forever. No in between.

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2014, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by redrum86

I don't understand how it can be mental. My legs are shaking like mad what squatting and feel like they are going to give out doing squats within the next few weeks. Seems physical to me.
I see success stories all the time of obese people dieting and lifting weights transforming their bodies completely. They are obviously restricting their caloric intake while training. How does this work for them? I know I need to eat to get stronger but I honestly didn't think i'd stall this soon. I just started.
If my main goal is to lose fat right now while preserving muscle, what should I do to loose the fat?

I am going to enclose before and after pics. Would you or anyone be able to perhaps estimate my before and after BF%?

This was me before:
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

And this is me now:
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Will I ever be able to get rid of that loose pouch of jiggly fat on my stomach? I remember it being there my whole life. Something tells me I will have to get a six pack or that pouch will be there forever. No in between.

it becomes a "mental thing" when you do it day in and day out, month after month, even when you don't want to do it.

It becomes a mental thing when you force feed what you need to eat, even though you are no longer hungry and the food doesn't taste good.

It's pushing yourself consistently over time, even when you don't feel like doing it.

**redrum86** · 06-23-2014, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

it becomes a "mental thing" when you do it day in and day out, month after month, even when you don't want to do it.

It becomes a mental thing when you force feed what you need to eat, even though you are no longer hungry and the food doesn't taste good.

It's pushing yourself consistently over time, even when you don't feel like doing it.

Gotcha. Well I have been going 3 days a week as per the program for 9 weeks now and havent missed a day. 9 weeks may be nothing for some people but it is a major accomplishment for me. So when my legs give out, and I fall on my face with a certain weight, do I just lower it a little and keep lifting at that same weight? Remember my goal is to loose fat.
WOuld you be able to tell me a bf estimate and if that jiggly fat pouch will disappear?

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2014, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by redrum86

Gotcha. Well I have been going 3 days a week as per the program for 9 weeks now and havent missed a day. 9 weeks may be nothing for some people but it is a major accomplishment for me. So when my legs give out, and I fall on my face with a certain weight, do I just lower it a little and keep lifting at that same weight? Remember my goal is to loose fat.
WOuld you be able to tell me a bf estimate and if that jiggly fat pouch will disappear?

I don't want to sound overly critical, but 3/7 = 42% of the days spent in the gym. Not very much. I'm an old fvck, and I'm in the gym three days out of four, or almost twice as often as you.

If you want to play this game, then play it right. Three days per week is something a soccer mom would do so she can tell the other soccer moms she regularly go to the gym. But to us gym rats, 3 days out of 7 doesn't really even get you in the game.

What do you want out of this, and how badly do you want it?

---Roman

**redrum86** · 06-23-2014, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I don't want to sound overly critical, but 3/7 = 42% of the days spent in the gym. Not very much. I'm an old fvck, and I'm in the gym three days out of four, or almost twice as often as you.

If you want to play this game, then play it right. Three days per week is something a soccer mom would do so she can tell the other soccer moms she regularly go to the gym. But to us gym rats, 3 days out of 7 doesn't really even get you in the game.

What do you want out of this, and how badly do you want it?

---Roman

I am in the powerlifting forum right? Are you familiar with the program I am on and what it entails?

**Docd187123** · 06-23-2014, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I don't want to sound overly critical, but 3/7 = 42% of the days spent in the gym. Not very much. I'm an old fvck, and I'm in the gym three days out of four, or almost twice as often as you.

If you want to play this game, then play it right. Three days per week is something a soccer mom would do so she can tell the other soccer moms she regularly go to the gym. But to us gym rats, 3 days out of 7 doesn't really even get you in the game.

What do you want out of this, and how badly do you want it?

---Roman

If you knew the program he was running and the progression scheme I think your view the program differently. I've done it myself, after a few weeks it is BRUTAL!

**Times Roman** · 06-24-2014, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by redrum86

I am in the powerlifting forum right? Are you familiar with the program I am on and what it entails?

Originally Posted by Docd187123

If you knew the program he was running and the progression scheme I think your view the program differently. I've done it myself, after a few weeks it is BRUTAL!

If I misspoke, then I apologize

**Docd187123** · 06-24-2014, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

If I misspoke, then I apologize

Not at all. I'm guessing you're just not familiar wih the program. It is a brutal program after the first few weeks and you need the 4 days off for recovery. You're squatting 3x a week, adding 5-10lbs each day you squat, you deadlift twice one week and once the next adding 5-10lbs each time, same with bench and press but you add less weight to those lifts. My first couple times running it I overtrained on it lifting only 3days a week lol. It's a good beginners program for strength athletes and even for bodybuilders to get a good foundation.

Cheers TR!

**redrum86** · 06-24-2014, 07:09 PM

Thanks for the explanation doc and no worries Roman, its all good.

**redrum86** · 06-27-2014, 04:12 PM

BUmp

**Docd187123** · 06-27-2014, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by redrum86

Gotcha. Well I have been going 3 days a week as per the program for 9 weeks now and havent missed a day. 9 weeks may be nothing for some people but it is a major accomplishment for me. So when my legs give out, and I fall on my face with a certain weight, do I just lower it a little and keep lifting at that same weight? Remember my goal is to loose fat.
WOuld you be able to tell me a bf estimate and if that jiggly fat pouch will disappear?

Starting strength is extremely difficult to run in a calorie deficit. Some have done it but it requires extreme fortitude and dedication. This is likely part of your issue. It's much better to eat at maintenance or a slight surplus for this program. Eating at maintenance or a small surplus will still allow you a slow recomp while your strength continues to go up.

What are your lifts at now? Are you doing accessory work at all and if so what rep ranges and sets?

You should read the book starting strength and practical programming (both 3rd editions) if you haven't. They'll explain in great detail what to do.

Basically when you stall you need to evaluate the cause of the stall. Is it bc you've maxed out linear programming, are you not eating enough or getting in enough protein, is it due to lifestyle factors like lack of sleep, physical job hindering recovery, partying 4x a week, etc? If linear programming is maxed out which I doubt in your case is the issue you'd adjust your programming towards intermediate programming. If it's a lifestyle factor you'd try to eliminate he problem. If you're not getting enough sleep you'd try and sleep more or earlier. If it's a form issue you'd fix your form. Sometimes you'll stall/plateau even with these in check. When that happens you reset the weight by 10% and work your way back up which usually will push you last the plateau. Another options would be to slow down the progression a bit.

I mentioned this to you before, SS is not the best program when trying to cut. Cutting means you need to burn more calories than you take in which will affect your recovery significantly.

**redrum86** · 07-01-2014, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

Starting strength is extremely difficult to run in a calorie deficit. Some have done it but it requires extreme fortitude and dedication. This is likely part of your issue. It's much better to eat at maintenance or a slight surplus for this program. Eating at maintenance or a small surplus will still allow you a slow recomp while your strength continues to go up.

What are your lifts at now? Are you doing accessory work at all and if so what rep ranges and sets?

You should read the book starting strength and practical programming (both 3rd editions) if you haven't. They'll explain in great detail what to do.

Basically when you stall you need to evaluate the cause of the stall. Is it bc you've maxed out linear programming, are you not eating enough or getting in enough protein, is it due to lifestyle factors like lack of sleep, physical job hindering recovery, partying 4x a week, etc? If linear programming is maxed out which I doubt in your case is the issue you'd adjust your programming towards intermediate programming. If it's a lifestyle factor you'd try to eliminate he problem. If you're not getting enough sleep you'd try and sleep more or earlier. If it's a form issue you'd fix your form. Sometimes you'll stall/plateau even with these in check. When that happens you reset the weight by 10% and work your way back up which usually will push you last the plateau. Another options would be to slow down the progression a bit.

I mentioned this to you before, SS is not the best program when trying to cut. Cutting means you need to burn more calories than you take in which will affect your recovery significantly.

Won't eating in a surplus still cause me to gain some fat?
I do have the book btw. Great read.
As of yesterday, my lifts are:
Squat-180
bench-175
press- 102.5
dead-260

I am not doing any accessory work. I am still to heavy for pull-ups/chin-ups and want my deads to go up a little more before i add cleans.
I have slowed down the progression. I have been adding 2.5lbs for all my lifts for the past month.
Which program would you recommend for someone with my goals?
I don't understand something. I keep reading you can't gain muscle in a deficit and that you need to eat in a surplus. You can't lose fat if eating in a surplus though. How do these people that post success stories that were morbidly obese diet and work out and achieve a dream body with tons of definition if you can't do both?

**oldnsedentary** · 07-02-2014, 03:17 PM

redrum, you are just starting. You are progressing. I say just keep at it. It looks to me like you are doing well and getting better. Just keep at it and keep progressing. This does not happen overnight.

You keep reading that you can't gain muscle in a deficit. Well, obviously, you are.

Keep it up and keep us updated on your progress, please.

Your deadlift is almost three times what you started. You added 52% to your bench. Your squat went from a mere 75 pounds to 180, which means you are now squatting almost two and half times heavier than your starting squat.

There is no magic to instantly make you squat 700 pounds. You are going to have to work your way up to it, 2.5 pounds at a time, until you get there. It takes time.

Stop whining and keep doing what you have been doing. You only started lifting in April.

Keep this thread going for five years, with updates, and let's see how you are doing next year.

**energizer bunny** · 07-03-2014, 03:53 AM

If you are looking for a change mate....google wendlers 5,3,1

but i agree with the above posts, stick with what you are doing as it is working.

**redrum86** · 07-05-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by oldnsedentary

redrum, you are just starting. You are progressing. I say just keep at it. It looks to me like you are doing well and getting better. Just keep at it and keep progressing. This does not happen overnight.

You keep reading that you can't gain muscle in a deficit. Well, obviously, you are.

Keep it up and keep us updated on your progress, please.

Your deadlift is almost three times what you started. You added 52% to your bench. Your squat went from a mere 75 pounds to 180, which means you are now squatting almost two and half times heavier than your starting squat.

There is no magic to instantly make you squat 700 pounds. You are going to have to work your way up to it, 2.5 pounds at a time, until you get there. It takes time.

Stop whining and keep doing what you have been doing. You only started lifting in April.

Keep this thread going for five years, with updates, and let's see how you are doing next year.

Thank you. I just feel like I should have been lifting more from the beginning for a guy my size. I have been comparing myself to others just starting out and they are way ahead of me.

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

If you are looking for a change mate....google wendlers 5,3,1

but i agree with the above posts, stick with what you are doing as it is working.

Thanks for the reassurance.

**oldnsedentary** · 07-10-2014, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by redrum86

As of yesterday, my lifts are:
Squat-180

Come on, man, it has been more than a week. Can you squat 185 yet? That's the bar, a 45, and a 25 on each side. Tell me you are doing it. Then let's shoot for 35s on each side (205). Incremental goals!

**oldnsedentary** · 07-10-2014, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by redrum86

I am not doing any accessory work. I am still to heavy for pull-ups/chin-ups and want my deads to go up a little more before i add cleans.
. . .
Which program would you recommend for someone with my goals?

What are your goals? You posted in the powerlifting section, but you keep writing about "a dream body with tons of definition" and your first post references adding strength and cutting fat.

Sounds more like you should be doing bodybuilding instead of strict powerlifting with no accessory work.

I am not doing any accessory work. I am still to heavy for pull-ups/chin-ups and want my deads to go up a little more before i add cleans.

Can't do pullups? Then do lat pulldowns, T Bar rows, pulley rows, get those large back muscles working.

Work in the 8-12 rep range, multiple sets, hit the cardio hard, and post what you eat and drink over in the diet and nutrition section.

None of that is powerlifting advice, though.

**Docd187123** · 07-10-2014, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by oldnsedentary

What are your goals? You posted in the powerlifting section, but you keep writing about "a dream body with tons of definition" and your first post references adding strength and cutting fat.

Sounds more like you should be doing bodybuilding instead of strict powerlifting with no accessory work. Can't do pullups? Then do lat pulldowns, T Bar rows, pulley rows, get those large back muscles working.

Work in the 8-12 rep range, multiple sets, hit the cardio hard, and post what you eat and drink over in the diet and nutrition section.

None of that is powerlifting advice, though.

Or use a band to give assistance on the way up. Good advice though.

**Cutthroat10** · 09-10-2014, 11:11 AM

Wendler's 531 is great but it says it's an intermediate to advanced program. I'm not sure how well it would work for a beginner. I personally don't know why it wouldn't work for a newbie if you can do the lifts correctly. I'm doing the BBB and I like it, it's done in cycles and it's a clearly laid out program. It's easier when i have goals and a plan to achieve them instead of shooting from the hip.