08-08-2003, 01:53 PM #1
Huge Presser's Westside Barbell Progress
Alright bros, I've decided to give the much hyped over Westside barbell routine a second try. I will be dieting hardcore, with more calories and carbs. Also I am going to start getting more sleep, seeing that school is starting up next week (oh yeah ill rhyme. While completing this routine I will also be preparing myself for a bench press competition about two months from now, in California.
Alright well I have set up my routine with the core lifts as of this point. I have my speed days set at 55% of my max, and on max days I will be doing 4 board press. On my DE Squat days, 65% of my max again, on ME Days I will work up to a max box squat. But I still have a couple questions, hopefully some of you guys can help me out here. As you know I've tried this routine before, only to have bad luck, and I think it had something to do with what I did after doing my core lifts...
1. What should I do after I'm done with DE bench??? Incline, decline, flies??? And if I do them should they be done fast as well? Also I have the same question for squat... after I'm done should I do leg presses or partial deadlifts or what? And what about on ME days... should I finish with heavy incline and decline presses?
2. Last year when I tried this, I would do the speed days with bands, then afterwards I would go really heavy on incline, decline, and dumbell presses... do you think this contributed to my poor results?
Thanks bros for helpin me out!
Last edited by Huge Presser; 08-08-2003 at 05:19 PM.
08-08-2003, 06:33 PM #2
Well lets see when I did westside this is what I was doing
ME Bench (I would max out on a brd lets say 4 brd)
then after I maxed out on that I went on to tri push downs say 5x10 then after that I would do one thing for the back heavy like BB Rows 5x5, then after that I did one shoulder movement like lat raises 4x10 Then that would be it
My DE Day for bench would look like this 50% 1RPM 10x3 ,then I would work the tris hard with push downs say 4x8, then a back movement like barbell Rows 4x8 ,then shoulder work shrugs 5x10 then that was it .The thing I would do is I would do heavy back and shoulder work on my max days with low Reps then on DE Days I did less weight more volume .Hope this helped some .............CDOG
08-08-2003, 08:43 PM #3
Thanks brotha. Although I feel there should be more shoulder work in this routine. But I'm going to follow it as closely as possible. I do have another question though, will it hinder my gains to do back and biceps on a seperate day besides bench?
Anyhow, here's how my DE days are lookin right now:
Bench: 155*3*3, 165*3*3, 175*3*3, close, medium then contest grips
But what next? Sorry I'm really going to miss doing decline and incline bench so I'm going to try and fit them in my routine somehow. But if it will hinder my gains, I won't.
08-08-2003, 08:56 PM #4
I would not miss with it .Although it seams like not enough shoulder or back work you must remember that your working the back and shoulders twice a week .I would not even mess with arms at all !I wanted to add size to my arms and they only way I could get them to grow was to drop arm curls and crap and go big with back .I still will do hammer curls when I do back but I dont waste time with anything else unless Im recovering .After all if you did say DB Rows compare that weight to what you could do for say DB Curls .You can lift WAY MORE weight for your bis if you hit the back heavy.And guess what comes ?????SIZE BRATHA!Plus you dont need to spend all that time on arms.Oh by the way my arms grew about one inch after I droped arm work and started hiting back heavy in about 3 mo .............CDOG
08-08-2003, 11:41 PM #5New Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
You're going to have to change some of your numbers. My best bench is 630 and the most I have used in training for speed work is 225-245 with a mini band. I have used as little as 185 depending how I felt that day. DE day is just to work speed and explosiveness. Too many people get caught up in trying to lift heavy on this day, then turn around and try to hit something big on ME day. Your CNS will go to hell. Think of DE day as a light day. But that doesn't mean 'easy'. Increase the intensity by adding reps of 10-15 and cut the amount of time between sets.
Another thing, change up your exercises on a weekly basis. Don't get stuck doing 4 board presses every max effort day. Max out on floor presses, reverse band presses, two, three board presses, declines and so on.
I try to hit a tricep movement after speed work followed by a shoulder movement, upper back and abs. ME day, I'll hit my max effort movement followed by two tricep movements, another shoulder exercise, upperback and abs.
Don't give up decline benches. These are great for the tricep as long as you push the bar straight up and not back over the head.
08-09-2003, 07:57 AM #6Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
HP, since your a bodybuilder I would recomend doing these exercises on your ME day for bench.
1)Widegrip Bench Press
2)Closegrip Bench Press
3)Dumbell Bench Press
4)Widegrip Incline Press
5)Closegrip Incline Press
6)Dumbell Incline Press
7)Widegrip Decline Press
8)Closegrip Decline Press
9)Dumbell Decline Press
These are in no particular order or anything, its just a list of the ME exercises that I would do if I were using WSB to increase strength for bodybuilding purposes. Some will argue to use boards, etc into your ME work but I dont think it is needed because it doesnt allow for full range of motion, which bodybuilders need. This is all strictly my opinion though. I would do my board work as supplementary work after DE bench and after ME bench days. For example, on your DE day do your 8-10 sets of bench then hit some heavy 4-5 boards. Then on your ME day after one of those ME exercises I would hit a 2-3 board heavy. This is strictly my opinion though. But with those exercises I listed you could add chains and or bands to add variety. You could also use cambered bars, thicker bars, etc into the mix for more variety. On the widegrip exercises I would go for a max set of five reps, on the closegrip exercises I would go for a max set of 3 if using chains or bands and a max single if using just raw weight. When using the boards I would go for max triples on DE day and max singles on ME day. I would alternate the kind of boards I used every week on both days. I could lay out a full routine of what I would do if you like, just let me know.
Last edited by solidj55; 08-09-2003 at 08:30 AM.
08-09-2003, 08:27 AM #7Member
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- Jul 2002
Also, I wouldnt do much on the shoulder work like you were asking. I would alternate between Side, Front, Rear raises every time. For example, on your DE you do front, then ME you do rear then the next DE you do side, then ME you do front, then DE you do rear, etc etc. I would pick a few back exercise and alternate them every two weeks. Personally I would pick 3 rowing movements and 3 pullup/chinup variations. I would do the rows on DE day and the pullups or chinups on ME day. I would use these rows-bentover BB rows, dumbell rows, chest supported T-bar rows. I would vary my grips(on the bentover and chest supported rows)using an overhand grip, underhand. For the pullups or chinups I would use medium grip pullups, chinups(palms facing you), and semi-supinated grip chins(palms facing each other). For the reps on rows I would stick to sets of 5-7 for 4-5 sets and on the chins I would do my sets about 1 rep short of failure on each set for 3 sets. I wouldnt do any isolation work at all, no curls, pushdowns, flys, etc. The only isolation movements would be the shoulder raises and ab work.
08-09-2003, 09:05 AM #8Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Screw it, I am bored this is what I would do. I will lay out a template of what the days look like then I'll show you how I would rotate exercises week to week.
Board Press-go to a max triple
Board Press-go to a max single
Pullup or chinup variation- 3 sets
Ok for the ME work I would alternate like this.
Week1- Widegrip Incline-max set of 5
Week2- Closegrip Decline-max set of 3
Week3- Widegrip Bench-max set of 5
Week4- Dumbell Incline-3x20(do light sets short rest)
Week5- Widegrip Decline-max set of 5
Week6- Closegrip Bench-max set of 3
Week7- Widegrip Incline-max set of 5
Week8- Dumbell Decline- 3x20
Week9- Widegrip Bench- max set of 5
Week10- Closegrip Incline- max set of 3
Week11- Widegrip Decline- max set of 5
Week12- Dumbell Flat- 3x20
***I never have used chains/bands but feel free to add when you want
For my back work I would do this on DE day.
Weeks1-2- Chest Supported Row(overhand grip)- 4-5x5
Weeks3-4- Dumbell Row- 4-5x5
Weeks5-6- Bentover Barbell Row(overhand grip)- 4-5x5
Weeks7-8- Chest Supported Row(underhand grip)-4-5x5
Weeks9-10- Dumbell Row-4-5x5
Weeks11-12- Bentover Barbell Row(overhand grip)- 4-5x5
For my back work I would do this on ME day.
Weeks3-4- Semi-supinated Chinups
Weeks9-10- Semi-supinated Chinups
Board Work I would follow this on DE day.
Weeks 1,3,5,7,9,11- 4 board
Weeks 2,4,6,8,10,12- 5 board
Board Work I would follow this on ME day.
Weeks 1,3,5,7,9,11- 3 board
Weeks 2,4,6,8,10,12- 2 board
I already explained how I would do the shouler raises up above...
08-09-2003, 09:11 AM #9Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
I just re-read your post and saw that you are going to compete in powerlifting so just disreagard my posts lol, if you are a bodybuilder then go ahead and read them.
08-09-2003, 01:18 PM #10
Thanks a ton for the help bros! Solidj, I am in no way a bodybuilder, if you read my cycle diary and look at my pics you will see why! I have no biceps but a huge chest and lats... I am all about strength!!! I appreciate your help on helping me set it up.
strongerthanall... what do you suggest I use? My RAW bench is 320, so I figure I should go with 50-55% of that. About 160-170. But I guess I'll just go with 135-155 to play it safe.
08-09-2003, 02:37 PM #11
K I think I have DE days set up pretty much:
Bench: 135*3*3, 145*3*3, 155*3*3, all with small bands that add about 15 at the top and 5 at the bottom.
Cable Tris: 3*8
So hows that?
08-09-2003, 03:12 PM #12Originally Posted by Huge Presser
1. I think i heard you complain in the past about speed days and the fact that you're not exactly enamored with them, to put it mildly. You may want to speak with PLJay (if he still pops in here), as he was instrumental in talking me through a great deal of my westside "issues" when I went on the program. His best piece of advice to me was something along the lines of "the biggest mistake people make in westside training is to not go heavy enough on ME days and to go too heavy on DE days." I think I knocked my DE bench day weight down as low as 40% 1RM and felt that this was much more effective. I was able to get some amazing speed without ever feeling as if I was compromising safety and injury prevention like i had at 55% 1RM. Remember, if you bench 365, the goal on DE day is to generate 365lbs worth of lifting explosion whether you have 180 on the bar or 135.
2. If I'm in fact recalling correctly, one of my favorite things about westside was the fact that ME day core exercises were cycled every third week or so. I felt that this was ideal for preventing the sort of injuries that might result from 9-12 straight weeks of floor presses, board presses or close grip bench ONLY. By sticking with a core exercise for only three weeks and then switching up, I felt you were able to get the benefit of that particular exercise, but switch it up in time to allow ME days to inflict their damage, so to speak, at an entirely different point of flexion...thus mitigating the chance of wear and tear resulting in an injury. It's my opinion that sticking with something like 4boards as your core throughout the entirety of the program is only effective if you are an extremely advanced powerlifter specifically targeting a glaring weakness that this particular exercise (and only this particular exercises) addresses. But, BIG BUMP on this one, as I'm only operating in the realm of theory (having done one westside cycle...but having read EVERYTHING on the subject) and guys with more actual experience may take an entirely different stance.
08-09-2003, 03:31 PM #13
After reading previous posts I have no intention of sticking with 4 boards throughout the 9-week routine. Instead I will be rotating ME excercises every 3-4 weeks. Once again thanks everyone for the help, it is very appreciated. I now see why this may not of worked for me, maybe because most of my so called "Westside" routine was actual Huge Presser's routine. I incoorporated too much of my usual training into the routine which may have fucked it up.
BTW, Solid I believe you said that I am going to try doing a competition. I've actually done a few. Here is my pathetic competition resume:
Summer, 2000, age 17: 181 bench @123
Winter, 2001, age 18: 214@130
Spring, 2001, age 18: 231@132
Winter, 2002, age 18 and 11 months: 253@136
Summer, 2002, age 19: 286@140 with a phatass bench shirt that gave me about 45 pounds. Too bad it doesn't fit anymore .
And now: 320 raw touch n' go @ 163
Hopefully with my next bench shirt, the Phenom by Inzer, I will have 350+. I am really hoping for the best results possible out of this routine.
Once again much thanks to everyone.
I will start posting my progress in a few days. I will give everyone an idea of what my final routine will look like sometime later today.
08-09-2003, 11:18 PM #14New Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
ALRIGHT! I can't take it anymore! There is only one WS program. I know. I train there. Rotate ME movements every week. We NEVER train the same movement two weeks in a row. NEVER!
HP, do not do pushdowns or cable tri's. Matter of fact don't do any stuff with a cable unless it's lat pulldowns or standing crunches. Grab some db's and hit your tri's with some Tate Presses or Rolling db ext. You can do presses to the face or ext with a straight bar too. These exercises will develop the part of the tricep that you need for the big bench.
HP, are you using the JumpStretch mini bands? If so you should be getting about 70lbs of tension at the top if you're hooking them up right.
08-10-2003, 12:31 PM #15
No, I'm using some little shitty bands I found at my gym. I asked a personal trainer how much tension they should provide.... but fuck it. I'm gonna go out and get some real bands. I don't think it would be worthwhile to train with the other ones.
Thanks for the advice bro. I'm just trying to juggle information that I'm getting from others, along with websites explaining the routine in detail... no doubt you would know the routine better then anyone else. Thanks for the help...
Last day of my shit routine is today. Starting WS on Tues with Dynamic bench.
08-10-2003, 02:27 PM #16
08-10-2003, 02:52 PM #17New Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
Dave's one of my training partners and owner of www.************systems.com , I also help out with the Q&A on that sight.
Saboudian, that's a good article. If you go to Dave Tate's website, he's got a library of articles on Westside training. Alot of good reading.
HugePresser, if you ever have any questions just yell. I'll be keeping an eye out for your posts to see how you're doing. GOOD LUCK!
Last edited by strongerthanall; 08-10-2003 at 02:55 PM.
08-10-2003, 04:24 PM #18
Bros you have all been very helpful. I hope to get the best out of this routine...
I am ordering an Inzer Phenom this week. I will be minusing 2 inches off my relaxed chest, 1 inch off my arm, 2 inches off my shoulders. I want it to be as tight as possible.
08-12-2003, 06:41 PM #19
WEDNEDAYS – DE BENCH
Bench press 135*3*3 close grip, 145*3*3 medium grip, 155*3*3 competition grip
Triceps 1. Overhead Barbell Extensions 3*8
Delts 1. Side raises 2*8 Lateral raises 2*8
Lats/bis 1. Rows 3*10 Pulldowns 3*10 Hammer curls 3*8
THURSDAY – DE SQUAT
Box squat 1. 185*3*22. 195*3*23. 205*3*2
Glutes 1. Glute curls 3*8
Back extensions, then calves
SAT – ME BENCH
Board Press… week one: Work up to a solid 1RM
Triceps 3. Overhead Barbell Extensions 3*8 Pushdowns 3*8
Delts Side raises 2*8 Lateral raises 2*8 Side raises 2*8
Lats/bis Rows 3*10 Pulldowns 3*10 Hammer curls 3*8
SUNDAY – ME SQUAT
Zercher Squat… week one Work up to a max effort single
Arched Back Good Mornings 3*6
Back Raises 3*12
Quads Leg extensions 3*8
Glutes Glute curls 3*8
Calves Calf raises 3*10, holds on top
08-12-2003, 06:43 PM #20
Well there's my finalized routine. I'm starting it tomorrow, can't wait. More updates to come!
08-13-2003, 10:11 PM #21
Today I started WSB training, it went very well. I was with my friend who lives in Denver, haven't seen him in a while... he started doing the routine as well.
135*3 close grip...2.0 seconds
135*3 close grip... 2.2 seconds
135*3 close grip... 2.3 seconds
145*3 medium grip... 2.3 seconds
145*3 medium grip... 1.9 seconds!!!
145*3 medium... 2.1 seconds
155*3 contest grip... 2.2 seconds
155*3 contest... 2.2 seconds
155*3 contest... 2.3 seconds
Feelin good, all the sets were done in less then 2.5 seconds which I was very happy about...
Tricep overhead barbell extensions: 3 sets of 8
Shoulder raises 2*8
Barbell rows, 115*8, 125*8, 125*8... all sets were easy
Pulldowns: 3 sets of 8
Kick ass workout, great way to start off the routine. Look for more updates in the future!
08-14-2003, 04:40 PM #22
DE Squat, 8-14-03
Bodyweight at 161 lbs even.
Good mornings 3*8
Leg extensions 3*8
Calves 3*10 pauses on top
Feelin good about today, all my box squat sets were done in under 3 seconds. Felt like I should have used more on both days, but I promised myself I will not by any means fuck with the routine in order not to mess up my results, which is what happened previoiusly.
08-14-2003, 08:14 PM #23
HP, slightly off topic, but I'm wondering if your decision to use WSB training had anything to do with post cycle recovery and/or conditions. The more I think about it, with its conjugated methods that keep any form of overtraining (muscular, joint, or CNS), WSB might just be an excellent coming off cycle routine, provided you give yourself adequate time to recover from the beating you took while on.
08-14-2003, 09:48 PM #24
Exactly. I was planning to actually hit Metal Militia 3 weeks post cycle, or right after PCT. Instead I decided to give WSB second try, this time I'm doing it right. I believe that WSB almost forces your muscles to get stronger due to it's conjugated methods, such as speed... this is an aspect of training that is surely missed often while "on". I hope that these radical changes will make a difference.
08-16-2003, 07:36 PM #25
Max effort bench, 8-16:
Weighed in, 161.5 lbs...
4 Board press:
08-16-2003, 08:10 PM #26
Bro looking good Ill benching tomorro maybe Ive been overtrained for 2 weeks now sheesh.I hit 325 2weeks ago and have been messed up for awhaile .Plus my stinkin partner is going back to school so Im going to have to be takin the weight my self so this is going to screw things up a bit .Who needs school anyway lol ...I need a partner oh well ..I love doing Metal militia bro I go up fast in weight but you can overtrain in a short time if your natural ......Good luck brother keep it real CDOG
08-16-2003, 10:20 PM #27
But it sounds like you're doing great.
I'm looking to hit about 350 lbs bench when I get my next bench shirt. I figure the 4 board press is similar to your max in a bench shirt.
I'm looking forward to hearing about your results.
08-17-2003, 01:53 AM #28
Btw the above workout is obviously not everything I did. But other then the bench work, it's pretty much the same workout that I did on Wednesday.
08-17-2003, 05:21 AM #29New Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
After DE Bnch Work
After DE Bench Day we generally do a heavy tricep movement up to a max 5. i.e. 4 board with a close grip. You could do lockouts or any other board. TRain your weakness.
08-17-2003, 01:11 PM #30
Boz, do you train at Westside?
Anyways here was what I did today, ME squat day, for the lift I chose kneeling squats. Unfortunately I couldn't get the form down so I didn't know what to do, instead I just a max off 8 inch box squat... 335. Can anyone help me with a description of how to perform a kneeling squat?
08-18-2003, 06:44 PM #31
Well today and tomorrow I have off, so I'm just gonna sleep, eat, and hopefully grow. I'm trying to get my diet fixed up right now. Expect another update in two days.
08-18-2003, 07:06 PM #32
Nice work so far...just remember to keep the faith. And, if i didn't say it already, you've got to keep fighting that urge to go too heavy on DE days...it's all about CNS training and "learning" to explode, not taxing the muscles.
08-18-2003, 07:47 PM #33
Rest up my man .Are you doing DE squat next or ME??? Eat and sleep ,eat and sleep ,see ya in two days ........CDOG
08-18-2003, 08:39 PM #34
Hey Big Green, bro go up a few posts you will see that I was using weights that I was able to move VERY fast. My slowest set was 2.3 seconds and my average set was about 2.15 seconds. So I'm liftin large on ME days, but playing it safe on DE, don't want to make the same mistake that I did last time!
Cdog next is DE Bench on Wednes, then on Thursday DE Squat.
Update in a couple days!
08-20-2003, 02:58 PM #35
DE Bench 8-20-03
Alrighty another good day. Feeling as if I'm making some progress. Didn't have anyone to time me today but I still felt fast and I'm sure all the sets were under 2.5 seconds.
Barbell Tri Extensions: 2*8, elbow started to hurt, had to move on
Overhead Barbell Extensions: 2*8, behind head
Rows: 3*8 with 135, bent over at 90degrees
Rows: 135 2*8, 155*8, bent over at 135 degrees
Pulldowns: 125*3*8 wide grip
Hammer curls 3*10
Was tired as hell from six sets of rows. I tried to be like cdog on my last set of rows and raised it up to 155. I'm now going to cut the shrugs and go with 3 sets of rows at 90 degrees and 3 sets at 135.
08-20-2003, 03:06 PM #36
Keep it up bro. everything sounds good. Lovin the journal. keep us posted. I'll be starting my journal soon.
08-20-2003, 03:18 PM #37
Aren't you going to be hitting that HRT routine Big Green posted in the Workouts forum? I assume you're going for size this time around more then strength... what are your goals?
08-20-2003, 03:21 PM #38
yes, size this time, I'm trying to reach 170lbs, up from 155 right now. and I really wanna pack some mass on my chest and back.
08-20-2003, 03:28 PM #39
Your back is easily your strongpoint. Really focus on the chest and delts and you'll be 170 in no time. I've actually cut down a bit since I started this routine. I'm trying to stay right around 160 and hold my weight there until I can bench 350, which will hopefully be before my next cycle in October. Then I'm going to try and hit 180 bodyweight benching 400 raw. I'm working my ass off so hopefully I'll be there soon enough. As for yourself, just keep working hard and eating right. Keep us posted!
08-20-2003, 04:58 PM #40
Meal 1, 6:30 am
-2 scrambled eggs with 2 oz of ham
-2 whole wheat slices of toast
-bowl of grain cereal with 2 cups milk
-another separate 2 cups milk
Meal 2… 9:00 am
-1 “Protein Plus” protein bar
-1 “Naked Fruit Juice” protein shake
Meal 3… 11:30 am
-1 chicken ceaser pita at the Pita Pit
-gallon of water, drink steadily up until workout
Meal 4, 3:00 pm
-1 “Red Bull” energy drink
-Work out until you vomit!
Meal 5… 5:30 or so depending on when workout is finished
-Whey protein shake
-Soy protein shake
-4 boiled eggs
Meal 6… switch off nights steak/chicken/seafood. also with a salad... like a dinner almost
Meal 7… 8:00
-Soy protein shake
-1 bowl grain cereal with 2 cups milk
-1 boiled egg
Meal 8… but not really a meal
-Whey protein shake
Alright I know this isn't the Diet Forum, but just so you guys are filled in on every little detail, I'm gonna share my diet which I am officially starting tomorrow, and will be running up until the end of the WSB training program. On October 15th, I will bump up everything (carbs/protein/fat) as I will be starting my second big cycle. I have yet to figure out the total cals/carbs/protein/fat but I'm working on it right now as I'm typing this.
K peace bros...
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