Thread: Update on Resveratrol
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06-04-2007, 08:39 AM #81Writer
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Originally Posted by Adam F
I'm the only past mod who wasn't retired against their wishes who still posts.
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06-04-2007, 08:42 AM #82Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
I'm happy Monitoring and giving advice for free.
It seems your putting the whole Monitor postiton down, "...you don't even have any powers on the site...you have to report people to get something done...".
Your a normal member now, so I'm correct in saying you'de have to report to get something done, right? So whats your point?
"I was a Mod, and left that position because it's beneath me..."
So you'de be higher than all Mods here? I've heard this before. It was when SwoleCat put you back in your place and off your high horse.
Give what a rest?
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06-04-2007, 08:45 AM #83Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
Here comes the Brians my best mate tactic.
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06-04-2007, 09:01 AM #84
Make that 24 useless post 76 away from a source check keep posting. Anyone that suggest taking 1G of DNP is a retard. My last post regarding you. Have a good day Fruns.
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06-04-2007, 09:32 AM #85Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
EBSCO CAM Medical Review Board-
You may have heard of the "French paradox." The French diet is very high in saturated fat and cholesterol (just think of pate de fois gras and croissants), yet France has one of the world's lowest rates of heart disease. One theory for this apparent discrepancy is that another major player in the French diet—red wine—protects the arteries of the heart. (Another possibility, perhaps even more likely, is that cutting down on saturated fat is less harmful than previously thought. See the high cholesterol article for more information.)
Resveratrol is a natural antioxidant found in red wine. Antioxidants protect cells in the body from damage by free radicals, naturally occurring but harmful substances that are thought to play a role in cardiovascular disease . Resveratrol is also a phytoestrogen, a substance that mimics some of the effects of estrogen, while blocking others. Soy , another phytoestrogen, is thought to help prevent heart disease as well as cancer, and resveratrol might have similar effects. However, as yet none of these potential benefits of resveratrol have been documented in any meaningful way, and there is some evidence that resveratrol taken by mouth is broken down before it enters the bloodstream.
Sources
Resveratrol is not an essential nutrient. It is found in red wine as well as in red grape skins and seeds and purple grape juice. Peanuts also contain a small amount of resveratrol. Resveratrol supplements are available as well.
Therapeutic Dosages
Because there havent been any clinical studies, the optimal therapeutic dosage hasnt been established for resveratrol. Based on animal studies, a reasonable therapeutic dosage of resveratrol might be about 500 mg daily.
Therapeutic Uses
Very preliminary evidence such as the results of test tube studies suggests that resveratrol may help prevent heart disease , 2–5 and cancer . 9–14 However, not all studies have been favorable. 6,7,8,15 Furthermore, there is some evidence that resveratrol is immediately broken down by the human liver, and thereby does not in fact enter the blood stream at any significant level. 16 In any case, only double-blind studies can prove a treatment effective, and none have been reported with resveratrol. (For information on why such studies are essential, see Why Does This Database Rely on Double-Blind Studies? )
Safety Issues
Resveratrol has a chemical structure similar to that of the synthetic estrogenic hormone diethylstilbestrol and it has estrogenic effects. According to one study, it might stimulate the growth of breast cancer cells. 15 For this reason, resveratrol should be avoided by women who have had breast cancer or are at high risk of developing it. Maximum safe dosages for children, pregnant or nursing women, or those with severe liver or kidney disease have not been determined.
1. Gehm **, McAndrews JM, Chien PY, et al. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound found in grapes and wine, is an agonist for the estrogen receptor. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A . 1997;94:14138–14143.
2. Goldberg DM. More on antioxidant activity of resveratrol in red wine [letter]. Clin Chem . 1996;42:113–114.
3. Siemann EH, Creasy LL. Concentration of the phytoalexin resveratrol in wine. Am J Enol Vitic. 1992;43:49–52.
4. Kopp P. Resveratrol, a phytoestrogen found in red wine. A possible explanation for the conundrum of the ‘French paradox’? Eur J Endocrinol . 1998;138:619–620.
5. Rotondo S, Rajtar G, Manarini S, et al. Effect of trans-resveratrol, a natural polyphenolic compound, on human polymorphonuclear leukocyte function. Br J Pharmacol . 1998;123:1691–1699.
6. Turrens JF, Lariccia J, Nair MG. Resveratrol has no effect on lipoprotein profile and does not prevent peroxidation of serum lipids in normal rats. Free Radic Res . 1997;27:557–562.
7. Pace-Asciak CR, Rounova O, Hahn SE, et al. Wines and grape juices as modulators of platelet aggregation in healthy human subjects. Clin Chim Acta. 1996;246:163–182.
8. Wilson T, Knight TJ, Beitz DC, et al. Resveratrol promotes atherosclerosis in hypercholesterolemic rabbits. Life Sci . 1996;59:PL15–PL21.
9. Jang M, Cai L, Udeani GO, et al. Cancer chemopreventive activity of resveratrol, a natural product derived from grapes. Science . 1997;275:218–220.
10. Mgbonyebi OP, Russo J, Russo IH. Antiproliferative effect of synthetic resveratrol on human breast epithelial cells. Int J Oncol . 1998;12:865–869.
11. Subbaramaiah K, Chung WJ, Michaluart P, et al. Resveratrol inhibits cyclooxygenase-2 transcription and activity in phorbol ester-treated human mammary epithelial cells. J Biol Chem . 1998;273:21875–21882..
12. Clement MV, Hirpara JL, Chawdhury SH, et al. Chemopreventive agent resveratrol, a natural product derived from grapes, triggers CD95 signaling-***endent apoptosis in human tumor cells. Blood . 1998;92:996–1002.
13. Johnson JL, Maddipati KR. Paradoxical effects of resveratrol on the two prostaglandin H synthases. Prostaglandins Other Lipid Mediat . 1998;56:131–143.
14. ElAttar TM, Virji AS. Modulating effect of resveratrol and quercetin on oral cancer cell growth and proliferation. Anticancer Drugs. 1999;10:187–193.
15. Gehm **, McAndrews JM, Chien PY, et al. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound found in grapes and wine, is an agonist for the estrogen receptor. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A . 1997;94:14138–14143.
16. Walle T, Hsieh F, DeLegge MH et al. High absorption but very low bioavailability of oral resveratrol in humans. Drug Metab Dispos . 2004;32:1377-82.
Another interesting read and study-
Dr. Thomas Walle of the Medical University of South Carolina led a study which found that oral dietary supplements of resveratrol are unlikely to have any effect on breast and prostate cancer.
The study monitored blood levels of resveratrol following both oral and intravenous administration. No free resveratrol was present in blood samples drawn after oral doses; urine contained resveratrol only as sulfate and glucuronic acid conjugates, none as the free, presumably active, form. The only blood samples containing free resveratrol were those drawn within 30 minutes following the intravenous injection.
Based on these results, Dr. Walle said it is highly unlikely that resveratrol per se can have any effect on organs like the breast or prostate gland. He also said that further study could be done to see if orally administered resveratrol could prevent cancers along the aerodigestive tract, and to see if the resveratrol sulfate conjugate detected in circulating blood may exert the preventive activities claimed for resveratrol.
(Source: Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, 4/19/2004;
Article: presented at Experimental Biology 2004, as part of the scientific sessions of the American Society of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.)
PRITIKIN LONGEVITY CENTRE -
In the latest research, scientists reported that overweight, middle-aged mice whose high-calorie, high-fat diet was supplemented by resveratrol had better health and lived longer than chubby counterparts who did not receive it. Resveratrol is a compound found in common foods like grapes, red wine, and nuts.
The study, funded in part by the National Institute on Aging (NIA) of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), concluded that resveratrol appeared to lower the rate of diabetes, liver problems, and other fat-related ill effects in obese mice.
But don’t rush out and buy red wine or resveratrol supplements yet, cautions registered dietitian Jeffrey Novick. "The jury is still out, way out.”
For starters, the mice were fed massive doses of resveratrol – 24 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. “Red wine has about 1.5 to 3 milligrams of resveratrol per liter, so a 150-pound person would need to guzzle 750 to 1,500 bottles of red wine a day to get such a dose. Well,” Jeff jokes, “if it didn’t extend your life, you’d be so drunk you wouldn’t really care.”
Pills of resveratrol would require huge doses as well. “Many supplements have about 20 milligrams. The amount used in the study was the equivalent of giving a 150-pound man 1,636 milligrams, which would be about 80 pills a day,” notes Jeff.
Megadoses are scary because everything, even nutrients, is potentially toxic ***ending on the dose. That’s why the old saying “the dose makes the poison” is so true. Beta carotene is a beneficial chemical naturally occurring (in small amounts) in many fruits and vegetables, but massive doses in supplement form increased the risk of lung cancer in smokers. Huge doses of vitamin E increased the risk of heart problems in heart patients.
Indeed, in an NIH press statement, the authors of the resveratrol study cautioned that “we still have much to learn about resveratrol’s safety and effectiveness in humans.”
Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.
Bottom line:
There are no long-term studies on humans yet, so why take a chance? In huge doses, resveratrol is no longer a natural compound. It’s a drug. We have no idea what the side effects of taking it are. Resveratrol, like beta carotene and vitamin E, may turn out to cause more harm than good.
What to do:
Don’t get star-struck by the latest “miracle” or “super” food or nutrient that gets promoted in the media.
“Me?” smiles Jeff Novick. “I’m going to keep eating my favorite foods – fresh fruits and veggies – and plenty of grapes, the natural and healthy source of resveratol. Fresh fruits and veggies don’t make the morning paper’s headlines, but they do provide an abundance of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and phytochemicals proven to help us live longer, healthier lives.
“No single ingredient, resveratol included, can duplicate the nutritional riches – and rewards – of a healthful diet.
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06-04-2007, 09:33 AM #86Writer
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Originally Posted by Fruns
As for myself...i don't bodybuild..but have a pretty distinguished athletic career (national all-star games, etc..)...
I don't know what any of those guys looks like...but if we're talking about fat loss via DNP , they should post pics to show how well their protocol works.
Again, as for me, I prefer a more "mainstream" look...and I've modeled for Polo Sport as well as Tommy Hillfiger (pics have already been posted)...so I assume that's proof enough that I've attained that look. Lets see some pics of people who have run a gram of DNP, and see how ripped they are.
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06-04-2007, 09:37 AM #87Writer
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Originally Posted by marcus300
So how does it work? There isn't much debate on that. If it doesn't reach the bloodstream, then how does it work? None of what was posted says that it doesn't work....not if you read the full studies. Also,..the theraputic dosage...is roughly what a man would get from a full day of my product, if you read the studies. Theraputic dose...that phrase...seems to indicate that it works, right?
Also....since Biotest produces a Resveratrol product, you should probably post your queries on T - Nation as well, since I think Cy Wilson (one of my colleagues) likely should be able to answer these questions better than myself. That, if you forgot, is tha first site to expost Paul Borreson as a fraud (none of the degrees or credentials he claimed)...by the staff.Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 06-04-2007 at 09:42 AM.
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06-04-2007, 09:43 AM #88Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
I know you would never admit its useless but the studies do show it.
I might take you up on the offer and post it on t nation. might see you over there,
Thanks for the offer
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06-04-2007, 10:40 AM #89Writer
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Originally Posted by marcus300
No you're not reading it right. You should take some remedial courses in reading I suppose.
I've answered them already. I've cited studies in this very thread which answers them.
However, since this is only one ingredient in my product, and Cy has put out a whole product with Biotest which is just this very ingredient, I bet he knows more about it than me.
I also think that your queries would be better suited to that site than this one. Just my opinion.
You should read the articles on PB on T - Nation, though. The expose him as the loser/druggie/fraud he was before his OD. They're written by the staff, by the way...people who put a name to their articles ,and not just internet-forum-losers who post anonymously.Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 06-04-2007 at 10:51 AM.
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06-04-2007, 11:08 AM #90Writer
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Originally Posted by marcus300
Also...the theraputic dose you cite is 500mgs...my max dose for a man using CyoGenX is 450mgs, according to the product info. Seems like I've read the info before, huh?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pfac/cyo.html
It's available for well under $30 bucks now at BB.com.
Enjoy
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06-04-2007, 11:17 AM #91Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
I wouldnt expect anything else form you than to fully dismiss the studies and go on about something else.
One thing is there are studies by professionals so I would rather believe them than someone who is in total denial about the ingredient.
some quotes from the study -
The study monitored blood levels of resveratrol following both oral and intravenous administration. No free resveratrol was present in blood samples drawn after oral doses
Pills of resveratrol would require huge doses as well. “Many supplements have about 20 milligrams. The amount used in the study was the equivalent of giving a 150-pound man 1,636 milligrams, which would be about 80 pills a day
still have much to learn about resveratrol’s safety and effectiveness in humans
Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs
Some negative side effects are already known, emphasized one of the study’s authors, Rafael de Cabo, PhD, at NIH. Animal studies have shown that high doses of resveratrol affect blood platelets, which could increase the risk of bleeding when taken with anticoagulant, anti-platelet, or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs
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06-04-2007, 11:28 AM #92Writer
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Originally Posted by marcus300
You should probably write an article refuting all of my claims, and get it published through a major site or magazine, and then I can respond. This way, it will be more widely circulated and profitable for both of us, and we can engage this topic on even footing.
I look forward to it.
Thanks.
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06-04-2007, 11:35 AM #93Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
The studies do alarm me alot and I am sure many other bodybuilders who can clearly read the articles for themsleves.
Thankyou so much for the offer for making money but I will have to decline it, I am not interested in making any money from ppl.
I hope ive helped you in some way with the future research or re-designing your product.
All the best
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06-04-2007, 11:50 AM #94Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
Infact, I'd rather take advice from an actual bodybuilder, than someone who's never bodybuilded in their life.
Then you start about Paul B as you have had this debate beforehand. Whats that got to do with Resveratrol? Not much. Its just your febal attempt to change the subject...Again... As you dont have the answers.
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06-04-2007, 11:53 AM #95
Its pretty cut and dry.
I'll say it again. Believe Anthony Roberts, or whatever your alias is nowadays. Someone who claims to be, in it for the money. Or scientists writing articles who specialise in this subject and various studies. Members of society that ARE "professionalls".
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06-04-2007, 12:08 PM #96Writer
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Originally Posted by Swifto
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06-04-2007, 12:09 PM #97Writer
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Originally Posted by marcus300
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06-04-2007, 12:20 PM #98
Uh, why doesn't someone get a blood test, try the product for a month, and then get another blood test at the end of the trial period?
That being said, I do appreciate a good ole' fashioned debate..........
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06-05-2007, 05:25 AM #99Writer
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Originally Posted by wanescotting
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06-05-2007, 05:34 AM #100Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
Any anti-e should increase T-levels above normal levels, (ive had BW a few times to confirm this with some of the aroamatase inhibitors and serms..)
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06-05-2007, 06:00 AM #101Writer
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Originally Posted by vitor
We should actually look at different forms of Estrogen (Estradiol, etc...), HDL, LDL, Test, free test, and progesterone, I think. Maybe some other stuff too, to see what this is doing, exactly, and where dosing should be, ideally.
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06-05-2007, 06:02 AM #102
Uhhh, anthony why cant I PM you?
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06-05-2007, 06:17 AM #103Writer
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Because my PMs are turned off. They're basically disabled everywhere. Drop me an e-mail.
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06-05-2007, 06:50 AM #104Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
Also, I would like to add i am currently on cyogenx and taking 8 pills a day( 4, daily) and I have noticed reduction in my minor gyno, its almost completly gone, also it was very sensative to touch, it is now no longer sensative what so ever. I ran letro, and it worked great but when i tapered the dosages, i must not have done it long enough cause i exereinced the rebound effects. my nipples actully got puffyer. But now its almost gone. so somthing MUST be working. this kind of sh*t doesnt go away on its own.
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06-05-2007, 09:07 AM #105Writer
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Originally Posted by K.Biz
Glad to hear the results.
Also, I contacted some people in MA for you. I'll e-mail you back when I know who to refer you to .
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06-05-2007, 09:57 AM #106Originally Posted by K.Biz
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06-05-2007, 01:33 PM #107Writer
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Originally Posted by Swifto
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06-05-2007, 02:25 PM #108
Letro never did that for me.
Is it the same pathway it works through?
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06-05-2007, 03:52 PM #109Writer
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Originally Posted by MrNice
I never said it'll get rid of gyno because I want to punch people in the throat when they produce a supplement and say shit like that, and then someone gets gyno, or wastes their $$ on it.
I really...I make conservative claims, I think, for my supps...I don't wanna mess anyone up, and I've already seen it happen when people push anti-E supps too hard.
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06-10-2007, 03:08 PM #110
From what I've recently read on Avant Labs Forum (No its not a UGL and its probably the most intelligent board on the net), its bioavailability and oxidation are raised on more than one occassion.
Is the Resveratrol in CyoGenX the (polygonum cuspidatum) extract (root) version?
About the oxidation...
Its clear this is a big problem. Does CyoGenX contain gel caps? How does your supplement overcome this degradation by oxidation during its manufacturing process? If at all.
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06-10-2007, 03:20 PM #111Writer
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Originally Posted by Swifto
Anyway, as for "oxidation" you need to read some more studies. It's not a problem at all.
Resveratrol: Isomeric Molar Absorptivities and Stability
Brent C. Trela and Andrew L. Waterhouse*
***artment of Viticulture and Enology, University of California, Davis, California 95616
Received for review July 18, 1995. Revised manuscript received February 20, 1996. Accepted March 1, 1996.
Abstract:
Resveratrol has attracted interest as a wine constituent that may reduce heart disease. Published data on the molar absorptivity and chemical stability of cis- and trans-resveratrol have varied greatly. Accurate values for UV absorbance for trans-resveratrol [UV max (EtOH) nm () 308 (30 000)] and cis-resveratrol [UV max (EtOH) nm () 288 (12 600)] were determined and are used to improve chromatographic quantitation methods. Trials conducted under a variety of commonly encountered laboratory conditions show that trans-resveratrol is stable for months, except in high-pH buffers, when protected from light. cis-Resveratrol was stable only near pH neutrality when completely protected from light.
Journal of Medicinal Food
Resveratrol and Its Glycon Piceid Are Stable Polyphenols
Mar 2006, Vol. 9, No. 1 : 11 -14
Jiri Prokop, Interpharma Praha, a.s., Prague, Czech Republic.
Petr Abrman, Interpharma Praha, a.s., Prague, Czech Republic.
Allen L. Seligson, Biophysica Research, San Diego, La Jolla, California.
Milos Sovak, Biophysica Research and University of California, San Diego, California.
Plant extracts containing phytopolyphenols, including resveratrol, are extensively used as nutraceutical supplements. Recent reports allege their lack of stability at ambient conditions. We have studied the stability of resveratrol and its glycon piceid in a mixture with a whole grape extract for 2 years (long-term stability) under Good Manufacturing Practice pharmaceutical protocols (at 60% humidity and 25?C). The neat compounds were followed for 4 years under conditions of "accelerated stability," at 75% humidity and 40?C, all in the presence of ambient air. Chromatographic analysis did not detect any instability, thus disproving the claims to the opposite. No storage precautions are necessary for these nutritional supplements."Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 06-17-2007 at 06:10 AM.
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