Hmmm What about the Wife?

**streeter** · 01-08-2011, 01:12 AM

Well since this is not just the HRT/TRT part of the forum and it's also a wellness section let me ask this here.

Since I started HRT my wife has been completely in the loop as to what I take and how much. She was always curious about what I was taken. When I told her I took Vitamin B12 injections she asked about them.

Now understand we are both over 45 years old and go to the gym together so when I told her they give me an energy boost and help lose weight she asked for one.

So I have given her one injection. She loved it and wants weekly ones now. Now I do not want to give her anything that could hurt her health so let me ask you guys a few questions one before I give her any other injections I guess she should clear it with her doctor?? or is B12 safe enough to not worry about if it's only weekly injections 1ml.

Second question is there anything else that I can look into for her to give her an edge in the gym and feel better without doing anything that could hurt her health? I am so informed on my own HRT protocol but I really don't know what is available to women.

I asked her to go to her Doc and get blood work for all her hormone levels so we could see if she was deficient in anything. Her Doctor said he wouldn't do any blood work until after she went through menopause which she hasn't even started yet. What kind of quackery is that?? Or is he right?

**lifeforce0019** · 01-08-2011, 02:12 AM

Hello Streeter. Very thoughtful of you to think of the little lady! You know what they say, a happy wife is a happy life! Wish I had learned that before my divorce!

At any rate, I digress!

I am sure Slimmerme will be along with some good advice for your wife!

Until then I recommend wine and warm oil!

**Termin8r27** · 01-08-2011, 09:33 AM

Yes, you are hearing the same old diatribe from the 'standard' medical community - they won't address anything with women unless there is a severe abnormality or they go through menopause. Even then the regular MD will most likely only prescribe an Estrogen/Progesterone mix and never HGH, Testosterone or anything else that plummets after menopause.

FWIW my wife has witnessed the same things with me as well. She's witnessed my transformation and it's brought out some discussions/findings about her as well. We're working with my AA Clinic to get her blood drawn, but we believe getting on some kind of treatment will be beneficial. She's always battled fatigue and mild anxiety her whole life. After having two kids she's really seen her hormones go more erratic and the fatigue, anxiety and libido issues have gotten worse. I don't find too much women on the AA forums so we'll be sure to post her progress and maybe get her to join up as well.

As far as the B12, it's always good to get a blood workup to see where someone's at, but B12 injections are very common for exactly what you're doing and it's very hard to get to toxic levels and even then, the side effects are pretty mild.

**funkymonk** · 01-08-2011, 10:10 AM

Doc won't draw blood? Why not do it on your own thru private md . com?

**SlimmerMe** · 01-08-2011, 11:02 AM

Hi! Hope I can help!
If your wife iis curious and wants to see were she stands, then get some BW done to find out as suggested above.
Also, is she on birth control? This could make a BIG difference.
And once she gets her BW then post the results here and get some feedback. And at that point, hopefully PPC will be around to chime in. She is really the expert in this.

Like the above post said, just go to Private md....They are fast and if you answer a 2 second questionnaire you will get 15% off. Get her an entire Female hormone panel.

I bet at 45 your wife would love to get a handle on all of this before she starts to lose so many of her hormones.

Has she read any books? Suzanne Somers "Breakthrough" is excellent since Somers interviews many other docs in the book who are cutting edge. Plus "Natural Superwoman" by Dr. Uzzi Reiss and he has another one "Natural Hormones" ( not sure of this title since do not have in front of me) and also anything by Dr. Daved Rosensweet who I have talked to 2x's on the phone this past month.

Getting your wife proactive now is SO SO important!!! She is lucky to have you to help her get started.
And also tell her the horror stories which were rampant and all over the place were all about the horse urine hormones. Now women are on bio-identical hormones. BIG difference.

Get the lab work done and we can go from there. And by then maybe PPC will be back!

ps: I have taken b12 shots more than once a week....no problem. But we all react differently to things.

pss: this warms my heart when I see a man want to help his lady out! Remember...we have so many other hormones and it is a delicate dance. Like S. Somers says, "throw a little testosterone at a man and he is happy!"

**streeter** · 01-08-2011, 07:56 PM

Well I guess Blood Work is the next thing to get done. I am going to have her read this thread and see if she wants to get it done. I don't know why she wouldn't. Also no she is not on birth control I was snipped many many moons ago and she doesn't need it. She just turned 47 so I think Blood work is in order to see what we can do to help her out so I will keep everyone posted once we get that done.

**SlimmerMe** · 01-08-2011, 08:09 PM

If for any other reason to get a good baseline for her current age and then see the difference later on should she decide to hold off for awhile.

**layeazy** · 01-08-2011, 08:25 PM

What about the Anavar the steroid ? I have read its quite popular with women, also i dont see a problem with the B12 injections they might give her a psychological edge in her workout routines lol...

**dosXX** · 01-12-2011, 11:02 AM

Hey Street what is your wife's goal I mean is she trying to loose some weight and gain more energy like what you're experiencing or something else?

**boosted75** · 01-17-2011, 05:59 AM

my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.

**Termin8r27** · 01-17-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by boosted75

my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.

LOL! Sorry, that pretty funny and I guess...awesome?

How old are you and your wife if you don't mind me asking? Since she's only getting one shot per month, does she see a drop in weeks 3-4?

**boosted75** · 01-17-2011, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Termin8r27

LOL! Sorry, that pretty funny and I guess...awesome?

How old are you and your wife if you don't mind me asking? Since she's only getting one shot per month, does she see a drop in weeks 3-4?

im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.

**Termin8r27** · 01-17-2011, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by boosted75

im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.

You guys are about the same age as us and my wife has the same symptoms, so that's really good to hear. My wife is getting her bloodwork done this Wednesday and we plan on getting her on therapy as well. I'd ask if they could split the dose to at least an injection every other week, Test Cyp and Estrogen will be waning after week 2.

That's awesome though!

**flatscat** · 01-18-2011, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by boosted75

my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.

Welcome, but...
No pics, no cred!

**streeter** · 01-18-2011, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by boosted75

my doc has me on trt test c...my wife seen how much energy it gave me and sex drive so she asked our doc and she gets a test shot now too, 1cc=50mg testc and 2mg estrodal once a month.... after the secound month it was on. i thought i was living in a porno movie. her sex drive went from nothang, 1 time every 2 weeks to every day and weekends 2 or 3 times day. and will do just about anythang now. i never seen nothang like it.

Holy Crap!! I was procrastinating but after reading your post I paid for it today and went to local Lab and got her BW done. We get the results in 72 hours. I hope I can get her on the same thing with the same results LOL

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-18-2011, 02:40 PM

All of a sudden I am more interested in getting my wife interested in getting her hormones checked.

**SlimmerMe** · 01-18-2011, 10:56 PM

I am seeing a trend starting here....GOODY GOODY GOODY!

**streeter** · 01-19-2011, 01:19 AM

Well we will get the results in 72 hours. So today I started researching women and their hormones. OMG I thought us guys were complicated our crap is easy compared to the complications with women and their hormones. I am a little intimidated by it because I know the military Doctors around here don't even want to see her for anything until after menopause so I feel like I have to figure it out on my own. I have read that sometimes even BW doesn't tell you much it all comes down to symptoms.

So let me ask a few questions to the Women here that might know. If she is on the low side and she tries 50mg injection and some estrogen replacement is it like us guys where our systems natural production shuts down? If she wanted to stop after the first injection would there be any PCT or sides from just one injection to see if it made her feel better?

Once I get the BW I really wish I had a open minded physician to take it to I suppose I could show it to the same on-line HRT clinic I go through but I am not gullible enough to know they are into making money so they will be biased I am sure but maybe at least they could suggest an amount to take. I suppose I am jumping the gun since I haven't got the BW back yet but It doesn't hurt to start asking questions I suppose.

**streeter** · 01-19-2011, 01:36 AM

I just read this directly from my HRT clinics web site. I read it to my wife and her reply was I HAVE ALL THAT!

Menopause means that a natural stop in a woman's menstrual cycle and fertility has occurred. This happens when a woman's ovary stops producing the hormones estrogen and progesterone usually between the ages 40 and 55. Although menopause itself is constituted by a woman's last period, symptoms can begin several years before that. T This stage is called peri-menopause. While the end of menstruation and fertility are inevitable, only a small number of women report that they do not experience some of the more common, uncomfortable symptoms such as: hot flashes, night sweats, trouble sleeping through the night and mood changes.

**Termin8r27** · 01-19-2011, 09:31 AM

Streeter, you say your wife says she has all of that - even cessation of her period/menstrual cycle? Obviously if that's the case then she has gone through menopause, but I'm thinking you mean everything outside of the cessation of her period.

My wife has all of that as well. She's had the symptoms for years and they've gotten much worse over the last couple. You are correct in that 'modern doctors' and medicine don't support doing anything for women until they hit menopause. There is a term that is becoming more common now though that is peri-menopause. Women's hormones are definitely more complex than ours and you really have to dial it in and that's why its very important to find a Dr. and Clinic that knows what they are doing. SlimmerMe suggested some information for me and my wife and it has been EXTREMELY helpeful => check out Suzanne Sommer's site and some of her books. My wife and I are reading 'Breakthrough' right now and it's awesome stuff.

My wife literally just got back from getting her blood drawn and we should have results back next week, so it will be interesting to compare results and get her going on therapy.

**SlimmerMe** · 01-19-2011, 09:57 AM

Something to read. This is a thread where I think PPC knows more than anyone around here as far as women's wellness.
Hopefully she will return soon. Her post are solid and very informative.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5288579

and here is a steller thread started by PPC....read post #8 re: injecting test for women

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-mental-health

**PPC** · 01-19-2011, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by boosted75

im 35 she's 36... and it is awesome, it does wear off by the third week. she was tired and sleepy all the time with no energy, it realy made a big differance in our life.

My protocol as a female injecting T has been to use two small injections per week of 4mg of T = a total of 8mg. That is only 2 units on my 1ml insulin syringe...looking at that insignificant amount of oil, one thinks...'how the heck can that little bit make a difference?' ...Oh but it does.

Like with male T therapy, it is important to avoid the big spike and then drop off that large injections create. With 1-2 injections per week there will not be that slump toward the end. Also, the initial T spike from a 50 mg injection may aromataze into quite of estrogen. That can either be good or bad for a womand depending on where her E 2 is at, but it's best to avoid it jumping all over the place.

I had to reduce my T shots from 10mg per week due to hyper sexual feelings. A lower dose was more managable. Also...watch for acne on the face...aggressive behavior...snappiness....a more combative personality...all of those sides occured in my case.

**streeter** · 01-19-2011, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Termin8r27

Streeter, you say your wife says she has all of that - even cessation of her period/menstrual cycle? Obviously if that's the case then she has gone through menopause, but I'm thinking you mean everything outside of the cessation of her period.

My wife has all of that as well. She's had the symptoms for years and they've gotten much worse over the last couple. You are correct in that 'modern doctors' and medicine don't support doing anything for women until they hit menopause. There is a term that is becoming more common now though that is peri-menopause. Women's hormones are definitely more complex than ours and you really have to dial it in and that's why its very important to find a Dr. and Clinic that knows what they are doing. SlimmerMe suggested some information for me and my wife and it has been EXTREMELY helpeful => check out Suzanne Sommer's site and some of her books. My wife and I are reading 'Breakthrough' right now and it's awesome stuff.

My wife literally just got back from getting her blood drawn and we should have results back next week, so it will be interesting to compare results and get her going on therapy.

Yes you are correct she was talking about the symptoms. She has not entered menopause yet. Sorry so short I got her results back tonight and I am gonna post them here in a few minutes

**streeter** · 01-19-2011, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by PPC

My protocol as a female injecting T has been to use two small injections per week of 4mg of T = a total of 8mg. That is only 2 units on my 1ml insulin syringe...looking at that insignificant amount of oil, one thinks...'how the heck can that little bit make a difference?' ...Oh but it does.

Like with male T therapy, it is important to avoid the big spike and then drop off that large injections create. With 1-2 injections per week there will not be that slump toward the end. Also, the initial T spike from a 50 mg injection may aromataze into quite of estrogen. That can either be good or bad for a womand depending on where her E 2 is at, but it's best to avoid it jumping all over the place.

I had to reduce my T shots from 10mg per week due to hyper sexual feelings. A lower dose was more managable. Also...watch for acne on the face...aggressive behavior...snappiness....a more combative personality...all of those sides occured in my case.

Hmmm quick question then since your using such a small amount and you mention a diabetic needle do you still inject intramuscular or do you just go subq since its so small an amount. By the way got her results back gonna post them in a minute.

**streeter** · 01-19-2011, 11:53 PM

Crap the PDF file is DRM protected pdf file I cant copy and paste from it. There is so much info on it I want to include it all but I don't want to post the actual PDF since it has her name and everything else on it. I think I am going to have to screen capture it as an image and cut out the privacy stuff and post it as an image. any other suggestions?

**streeter** · 01-20-2011, 12:27 AM

Hope this is viewable. The BW was done on day 4 of her menstrual cycle if it has any bearing on the results. After reading about the diffrent cycles let me be clear she was on day 4 of her period.

http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=BWone.jpg
http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...nt=BWthree.jpg
http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=BWtwo.jpg

Let me know if you can see the images. If not I will try another way to post them

**PPC** · 01-20-2011, 09:10 AM

I was able to view her blood work. Your wife has elevated FSH -the sign that she has entered peri menoapuse. That simply means her follicule stimulating hormone has starting to rev. Her body senses that her ovaries do not have much spark left in them, so it presses the acclerator down harder on the FSH pedal to try to make the ovaries work harder. It's like a vehicle with no gas in the tank, but the acclerator's down to the floor trying to make it go. This doesn't actually work but the body still tries, regardless, it will do anything it can to try to mantain the ability to procreate.

As your wife enters menoapuse FSH will just get higher and higher. But that's the way of things.

Your poor wife, she can't feel good. Her estrogen is only 26. Most menopausal women have E2 less than thirty so even though your wife hasn't officially entered menoapuse yet, her E2 has dropped out. Estrogen enables good mood function, a healthy lubricated vagina, plump skin, a clear mind...the list goes on and on.....she needs her estogen back in the form of a bioidentical cream. It takes trial and error to find the right dose but once things are dialed in much health can be restored.

Even though her blood work was taken on day 4, which is one of the lowest times for estrogen production in a female cycle, a healthy premenopausal women will still have E levels above 80. Much less than that and women start to feel pretty awful. Less than fifty....that's when the real problems arise, like hot flashes, pain during sex, brain fog, uninspired breasts etc.

Her T....I just see the total but it is sadly lacking. I thought mine was horribly low in the low twenties with a free level of 0.5. Does your wife have much libido left? Is she lacking in energy...confidence? She needs T!!!!! She will feel much better with levels from 40-60, but she'll need to address her estrogen levels at the same time. Raising T with low E will not help libido but simply cause aggression and other unwanted side effects. E is the foundation that needs to be built on.

I hope you can find a doctor who knows how to do this. They're around.

I did not see a progesterone level. I assume it is low too. If your wife starts to use any form of estrogen she will also need to use progesterone to combat the proliferative effect E has on the breasts and uterus. Also, progesterone calms the body, helps with water retention and swims downstream into cortisol which provides badly needed energy.

Good luck to you and your wife. You are on the right track to helping her and much can be turned around here.

**APIs** · 01-20-2011, 10:20 AM

Wow, great stuff! Have to keep this info on-hand for the fiance! Thanks for posting everyone!

**Termin8r27** · 01-20-2011, 10:58 AM

Awesome stuff PPC and Streeter! I've sent this off to my wife along with some other threads with PPC and SlimmerMe. We get my wife's bloodwork back next week, so I'll post it up in this thread as well.

**streeter** · 01-20-2011, 12:42 PM

Wow Thank You! I suspected her levels were off but I did not know just how much. I have contacted the same HRT clinic I go through about her and I am waiting for an email back. If anyone wants to PM me any good clinics I can go through please do. I am near Dallas TX and my HRT clinic is one of those ones in Florida so if I can find one close to home it would be great.

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-20-2011, 01:07 PM

This is great info. My wife (32 years old) recently stopped birth control and her sex drive is up. Unfortunately, she is now only having a period once every two months. Women are complicated! She will have her hormones checked soon. She is more comfortable with that now that I am so much better on TRT (I am over 40).

**Termin8r27** · 01-20-2011, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by streeter

Wow Thank You! I suspected her levels were off but I did not know just how much. I have contacted the same HRT clinic I go through about her and I am waiting for an email back. If anyone wants to PM me any good clinics I can go through please do. I am near Dallas TX and my HRT clinic is one of those ones in Florida so if I can find one close to home it would be great.

I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.

**streeter** · 01-20-2011, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Termin8r27

I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.

I sent you a PM

**Termin8r27** · 01-20-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by streeter

I sent you a PM

Replied

**PPC** · 01-20-2011, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Termin8r27

I haven't been able to find any good and affordable one's in TX, so I'm like you and work with one based in FL. I've already informed them we'll be including my wife now too, they are just waiting on her results.

Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tackling female problems. Keep us posted.

**Termin8r27** · 01-20-2011, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by PPC

Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tacking female problems. Keep us posted.

Absolutely! We haven't been able to talk details since they want to see her bloodwork first before making any assumptions, but from all of our talks they do work with a lot of female patients and are a major AA Clinic there.

Here in Austin there isn't much choice. I started working with one, and they are nice people, but they charge WAY too much for their services and medications and also tend to focus a lot on 'The HCG Diet' and other gimmicks. I won't say the name here as I believe I can't, but it's an affiliated group with the same name down here in Texas, but different Dr's at each location.

I also explored the other larger metropolitans (San Antonio, Houston, Dallas) and encountered the same affiliated group or similar 'style' clinics.

**streeter** · 01-21-2011, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by PPC

Interesting...I only have experience with working with local doctors. I wonder how Florida clinics deal with female hormonal issues, I assumed they only worked with males. It will be interesting to see what their methods are for tackling female problems. Keep us posted.

PPC I just want to Thank you for all your help. You have been a true blessing to us. If you accept PM,s I can send you a list from my clinic of all the therapies they have available (and prices). I would love your opinion as to what you think she would do best on in-case they try to sell me something more expensive I really don't need. By the way they will treat her and they got her bloodwork already. I sent them the BW with your post about it

(Just in case the doc needs a little help determining her needs) She has to do a over the phone consult with a doctor and I'm having to pay $250 for that but its one time fee.
Thanks again

**streeter** · 01-21-2011, 12:08 AM

Sorry somehow double posted

**PPC** · 01-21-2011, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by streeter

PPC I just want to Thank you for all your help. You have been a true blessing to us. If you accept PM,s I can send you a list from my clinic of all the therapies they have available (and prices). I would love your opinion as to what you think she would do best on in-case they try to sell me something more expensive I really don't need. By the way they will treat her and they got her bloodwork already. I sent them the BW with your post about it

(Just in case the doc needs a little help determining her needs) She has to do a over the phone consult with a doctor and I'm having to pay $250 for that but its one time fee.
Thanks again

Sure, pm me. There are very inexpensive ways to do female HRT. I would hate for you and your wife to have to spend more than neccessary. I'd be very interested to see their options.

**Termin8r27** · 01-21-2011, 11:18 AM

Ok, here are my Wife's results, got them back faster than I thought.
http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z430/Termin8r27/

This was taken at day 19 of her cycle, per the AA Clinic's suggestion/request, so she was in the Ovulation Phase.

It appears to me that she is on the low end of Testosterone and almost out of range on the bottom for Progesterone. Could her Estrogen be low as well since it's in the lower %50? What about DHEA? How does SHBG play in for women - same as men, it appears she's on the high side.

My wife is about to be 32, has had fatigue, and mild depression/anxiety for a long time and they've been getting worse after our two children. Her libido has really taken a dive over the past few years and we did try for a third child about 5 months ago and she had her 2nd miscarriage. We've decided more children might not be in the cards especially if she needs to get on hormone therapy.