Medical/Scientific Study on HGH - this changed how I dose and maybe how you should

[bmit]

Been meaning to post this for awhile but been really busy. I appreciate how much I have learned from this board over the years and felt I needed to contribute back. So here it is:

The study was in a 2000 edition of The Journal of Endocrinology and of is titled: Exogenous 20K Growth Hormone (GH) Suppresses Endogenous 22K GH Secretion in Normal Men. You should know two things from this:
a. this is a scientific and empirical study in a respected medical journal. This means the result are RELIABLE. This is going to give you the best data. Not "my friend is HUGE and he said to take HGH like this......". Your friends good results could be the result of genetics, steroids , training, diet, etc.... And he may be able to have obtained even better results with a better dosing regimen.
b. The study was done on 32 healthy men. Again this a large sample. Importantly, these are healthy men. Most of the other studies may not be very applicable to bodybuilders since they are designed to test children's responses in height gains by HGH. Since Universities and Medical Research Facilities are likely not going be doing studies on bodybuilders any time soon, the study on these 32 healthy adult males is as good of one as we will likely have.




Here is the ABSTRACT which I will then summarize (I have a degree in Chemical Sciences).


The physiological and pharmacological functions of the 20-kDa
human GH (20K-hGH) isoform are unknown. We conducted a pharmacokinetic study of recombinant 20K-hGH in human subjects
(Phase I clinical trial). Placebo or 20K-hGH was administered sc to
normal men (20–31 yr of age, n 5 6–8 per group) at 2100 h. Serum
20K- and 22K-hGH levels were monitored every 30 min for 24 h by
specific enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays. Serumfree fatty acid,
insulin -like growth factor I, insulin, and glucose levelsweremeasured
for 24 h. In the placebo group, the secretion profiles of endogenous
20K- and 22K-hGH were pulsatile and similar to each other. The
proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH was fairly constant. In the 20K-hGHtreated groups, serum20K-hGH levels increased in a dose-dependent
manner over the dose range of 0.01–0.1 mg/kg. Maximum serum
20K-hGH levels were reached at 3–4 h and decreased with half-lives
of 2–3 h. Marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion was
observed in a time-dependent manner. Serum free fatty acid and
insulin-like growth factor I levels were significantly elevated (P ,
0.01) at 4, 8, and 12 h and at 8, 12, and 24 h after 20K-hGH administration, respectively. Serum insulin and glucose levels did not
change significantly within 24 h. These results suggested that: 1)
regulation of 20K-hGH secretion is physiologically the same as that
of 22K-hGH; 2) the pharmacokinetics after sc injection of 20K-hGH
are comparable with those of 22K-hGH; 3) 20K-hGH regulates hGH
secretion through “GH-induced negative feedback mechanisms”; and
4) administration of 20K-hGH is expected to exert GH actions
(growth-promoting activity and lipolytic activity). Monitoring of serum20K- and 22K-hGH levelsmay be useful in evaluating the effects
of administered GH isoforms on their own release from the pituitary.

Translation: HGH is dose dependent. Max levels are reached at between 3-4 hrs. Serum free fatty acid (FFA) levels begin max elevation at 4 hours also, but remain elevated for 24 hrs. You will see why this is important.

DISCUSSION:

The marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion occurred in parallel with the FFA elevation; serum FFA
levels increased with maximum levels at 4–8 h and recovered by 24 h after 20K-hGH administration. In contrast, serum IGF-I levels increased after 8 h and were prolonged up
to 24 h or more, and no increase in circulating glucose levels
was observed for 24 h. Our data are consistent with those of
Rosenthal et al. (34), who found that 6-hmethionyl 22K-hGH
infusion raised plasma FFA levels but not IGF-I or glucose
levels and blunted GHRH-induced GH secretion in normal
men. Of the main hGH-dependent substances, elevation of
FFA rather than IGF-I levels may play a leading role at least
in the marked 22K-hGH suppression at AUC6–12 h
after a
single sc administration of 20K-hGH. Administration of FFA
markedly reduced the basal GH secretion and blocked GH
secretion induced by pharmacological and physiological
stimuli in humans (23, 35). Recently, Briard et al. (36) reported
that FFA acts both at the hypothalamic level, through increased somatostatin secretion, and at the pituitary level in
sheep.
The suppression of 22K-hGHsecretionwas observed even
at the lowest dose of 20K-hGH administered (0.01 mg/kg),
with a Cmax
of 8.1 6 4.1 ng/mL. Rosenthal et al. (34) reported
that the GHRH-induced GH response in humans was significantly inhibited during 6-hmethionyl 22K-hGHinfusion,
whereas the plasma GH level remained constant (9–13 ng/
mL). Therefore, the effect of 20K-hGH on negative feedback
may be as potent as that of 22K-hGH.

TRANSLATION: The negative feedback loop on HGH is due to FFA. FFA reaches max between 4-8 hours after you pin, and remains elevated for 24 hours.

TAKE-AWAY: Shoot before bed subcutaneous. It takes longer for it begin the max effect of the HGH then does IM. Your max HGH pulse occurs at approximately 2 hrs after falling asleep. Your negative feedback doesn't really kick in till about 4-8 hours after shooting. And the negative feedback loop is about 24 hours. So you are clear again by bedtime where you will take your next shot. Again, your negative feedback won't really kick in till 4-8 hrs allowing your body to do its natural HGH production

Now if you shoot subcutaneous in the AM, remember that your levels remain elevated for 24 hours. You will be going to bed with still elevated levels this way.

I break my shots up into (1) bedtime subcutaneous to allow my HGH production to still occur naturally at its greatest release time; (2) AM shot upon rising that is done IM, since IM has a quicker clearance time and absorption time to allow my levels to again fall before bed (read a good amount of credible evidence on this too but too busy with law school and work to dig up my sources). Also HGH burns fat much better in a fasted state. (Id.) So I wait two hours after AM shot before eating b/c I am cutting and/or maintaining and don't eat carbs with 1st meal. If i was bulking I would probably shoot insulin and not worry about the fasting.

Additionally the whole idea of shooting before or after the gym is now pretty moot. HGH and IGF, not FFA, levels don't reach the levels we want till at least 4 and 8 hours respectively. And unless you go to bed right after gym, then you probably don't want to shoot then anyways..... otherwise you will be more severely messing with inhibiting your negative feedback loop by shooting that late in the day.

My HGH levels are at 796ng and I using 2iu upon rising and 2iu before bed. Also you want to use everyday to keep your blood levels consistent. 5/2 is old skool and on the way out. I know i may have slaughtered some "sacred cows" here, but medical studies such as this one and my own blood levels are to be relied upon, not my huge buddy at the gym with a GED who has no hard scientific evidence but merely the evidence that he is big (and would probably be bigger if he did it the right way).

[supe3]

Sorta makes sense to me but I don't claim to know much about it. I'm waiting to see what some of the vets have to say. Great topic for discussion though. What about people taking 7ius a day but can't do IM injections becouse I use a pen? From what you have said I have to wonder why splitting up the dose at all would be needed.

[bmit]

Unless there is a huge fraud perpetrated by this researcher and the corresponding research that affirms his results, then it wouldn't make sense to split subcutaneous dosages as it would be more likely to cause your body to fail to release its largest GH pulse at night.

[the judge]

doing test SUBq gets into the system quicker than IM so why wouldnt GH be the same?im also waiting for some of the pros to respond to this post.

[bmit]

Every study I have read has sub-q having a slower and longer clearance time

[DCannon]

doing test SUBq gets into the system quicker than IM so why wouldnt GH be the same?im also waiting for some of the pros to respond to this post.

I think you have it backwards Judge, subQ is slower than IM.

[DCannon]

I don't know if you copied it wrong but 22kDa is the synthetic GH and 20 kDa is the endogenous GH. It seems like the study had it backwards.

[the judge]

thx i thought it was the other way............

[spicyer]

[QUOTE=bmit;5563424
My HGH levels are at 796ng and I using 2iu upon rising and 2iu before bed. [/QUOTE]

I'm assuming your testing hgh blood serum levels? When are you having the blood drawn?

[DCannon]

I'm assuming your testing hgh blood serum levels? When are you having the blood drawn?

Those sound like IGF-1 levels to me.

[spicyer]

Those sound like IGF-1 levels to me.

Your right they could be. I assumed hgh blood serum because he stated "my hgh levels are 796". Either way thats a very high number. Bmit any light you can shed on this would be much appreciated.

[bmit]

Correct. those are my IGF levels that were tested. Tested about 2 hours after pinning.

Really thought there would be more response to this thread, even if it meant people getting angry at blasting their cherished ideas on HGH usage. LOL. i mean it is hard scientific data that either overturns or makes irrelevant much of what we have taken as the best method for administering HGH.

[spicyer]

Two hours after pinning IM? Also is this fasted igf test or non? Thank you!

[spicyer]

Correct. those are my IGF levels that were tested. Tested about 2 hours after pinning.

Really thought there would be more response to this thread, even if it meant people getting angry at blasting their cherished ideas on HGH usage. LOL. i mean it is hard scientific data that either overturns or makes irrelevant much of what we have taken as the best method for administering HGH.

Cherished ideas or not, many, many people have been dosing using dozens of protocols and while this study is a good read it does not overturn nor make irrelevant the gains that have been achieved using these protocols. I've ran hgh as the study indicates, unfortunately it was before I did bw associated with each protocol and or brand of hgh. Looks like its worth another try.

[M302_Imola]

Ok well how about the use of GHRH/GHRP in conjuction with HGH? I mean if you inject the GHRH/GHRP first thing in the morn and then wait 15 mins to pin 1-2 IU's of HGH then inject GHRH/GHRP pwo and right before bed will your body still release endogenous HGH within the 24 hr. period? From what I have read, pinning the HGH in the morning 15 mins after peptides tricks the body into thinking the HGH injected is a huge natural pulse and not exogenous.

[M302_Imola]

bump

[imom]

It takes me hours to fall asleep so I would lose the advantage anyway.

During which part(s) of the night's sleep does endogenous GH release occur? This article seems to imply that it occurs soon after falling asleep.